Eagle94-A1

back when I worked in supply, we had a few, not many but a few, GSUSA leaders spick up BSA literature to incorporate into their GSUSA program.

Regarding the World Crest, some of you may not remember that prior to August 1, 1989, you had to EARN (emphasis) the World Crest in order to wear it.I earned mine in 1987. I remember that exact date that allowed everyone to wear it because I was on a bus in Canada in the middle of an international trip that would have qualified everyone for the award when the adults apologized to use about the new rule. Trip was advertised as a way to earn that award. To make up for the rule change, we received the Canadian version of the badge, which is on a velvet background. So no, I will not be removing something I earned because I disagree with allowing girls in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. Now, will I remain active after February 1, 2019? I do not know. I am already frustrated with national over all of this. I believe they are ignoring what the majority of members and volunteers want since they are not publishing those statistics, but are publishing the nonmember ones. Plus they do have a history of ignoring what the members and volunteers want. Further I believe that either Surbaugh et al are either inept in their implementation plan, or they deliberately lied about the implementation plan.It is not realistic, and many will ignore it just as some are ignoring the current BSA policies. Either way, National does not instill a lot of confidence in me about the future of the Boy Scouts of America. Then there are all the local issues going on. The entire "Family Scouting" concept has no consistent meaning, and my troop is taking a very broad approach to "Family Scouting." I do not agree with it because it is interfering with what the program is suppose to be:allowing Scouts to grow up and be independent. Already getting complaints fro my sons and others about the parents interfering. But most importantly, my decision will be based upon what my sons want to do. I do see Oldest earning Eagle and getting out. Scouting is no longer fun for him, but he has a goal and wants to complete it. I have no clue what Middle Son will do. He is getting bored with all the family camping the troop is doing. Only 2 activities he is looking forward to: the AT trip in June, and Summer Camp in July. None of the other trips appeal to him because they are at the same old places, or are family camp outs. As for my youngest, he is completely against girls in the program. He cites the homeschool groups merging of the Boys and Girls Clubs. When they were two separate groups, the Boys Club was extremely active and doing stereotypical boy things: Nerf wars, outside physical games, etc. The boys were meeting weekly and having fun. The Girls Club which had the same number of folks, were not as active and were doing completely different activities. Some of the adults thought it would work out better if they merged the two. When the activities started changing from what the boys wanted, they slowly lost interest in the coed club. Coed club died, and neither the Boys Club nor Girls Club was restarted. So when, not if but WHEN, my troop goes coed, I do not see him sticking around.

I think we need to be realistic. We already know not only from those serving units on the ground, but also from BSA's own info on "Linked Troops" that troops will essentially be coed since the two "troops" can have shared volunteers, meet at the same location at the same time, go camping together, etc. I do not believe Scouters involved with 'Linked Troops" will allow their "boys troop" and "girls troop" to be placed in separate campsites. Further I do not believe most councils have the financial resources to hold two, separate single gender summer camps at the same time.

June 1st is go live for all non early adopter councils, although mine is recruiting in May. So everyone should be coed for Cub Scout day camp and resident camp. In fact I found out my day camp was going coed before it's camp director did.

While ultimately the membership decision is the COs, and I agree with that because they own the unit. But if you were considering a major change, wouldn't you want to know what your major stakeholder's think about the changes? National didn't listen to the membership when they made membership policies in the past. As a result, Scouting is suffering greatly in my area. The active volunteers who got things done quit because they thought BSA was not listening to them. COs have backed away from BSA, going to Trails Life. Not including the inflated numbers from when I first got here, we have lost members and volunteers, and the bulk of that is a result of the membership changes. So yes, I would hope any CO would get the opinion of what the youth want. In my case, despite the challenges the troop has, I do not want to see it fall apart over this.

In my troop, the current SM and his future successor are both gung ho about girls. They are the ones saying the troop will be fully coed irregardless of what National says.Yet the Scouts in the troop I've talked to are not in favor of it. Haven't talked to 100% of them either. so they may be a few who are for it And I have talked to a few Scouts from other units who are opposed to girls as well. And as I mentioned one ASM is against girls, and another has mixed emotions on it. What you propose would be a good psych experiment, but even with all the paperwork involved on using human testing subjects, I do not think it would be feasible.;) Plus I think a better experiment would be for the Scouts to come up with their own opinions. One of the things I liked about Scouting was learning to think for myself. As for you nephews, if they are willing to communicate with me, I'm game.

Big difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts is who runs the program. Cub Scouts is run by adults, Boy Scouts is suppose to be run by the Boy Scouts themselves. If a troop is truly run by the boys, and they do not want girls, are you going to stop them from running their troop they way they want? And every single boy I've talked to is opposed to allowing girls. In fact, the only people I've encountered gung ho about girls in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts are parents. Even the girls I've talked to are not that interested.

We have one troop that has stated "NO GIRLS!" Only problem with them is that they are limited by the CO as to the number of Boy Scouts they can have. CO views it as an outreach ministry, and fully supports the Boy Scouts. Very active in fundraising. So trying to transfer into them is very difficult. We also have 2 troops that are on the wall about going coed. Both see more negatives than positives. All three have an advantage over the rest of the troops in the district as they do not have feeder packs and Cub Scout parents pushing girls on them. Two additional will be having meetings with their IHs on the matter. I beleive one CO will go coed, my troop's CO, but the other I have no idea. They have not been supportive of Scouting, and have already told the leadership no homosexuals or they will drop the pack and troop. With the exception of the LDS units, I have no idea what the other 2 COs will be doing.

Actually crossing over by dens occurred before 1983. I was a Wolf, and saw the entire Webelos den earn AOL and cross over.

5- 10 seconds. My troop has already said they will be coed and segregated by patrol regardless of what national says. Only the CO will stop that. 1 Scouter has said he will drop, he does not plan on chaperoning coed camping trips. Another has mixed emotions since he has a daughter who has expressed interest in the BSA, but sees how this will hurt his son. I stated that while the CO will make the decision how Scouting will be at the church, if the troop does go coed, the boys will ultimately decide to stay, transfer, or quit altogether.

When I worked for national supply, my boss was completely clueless as to how a summer camp works. She envisioned it like a summer school where Scouts are in classes all day, and I only needed to be open between meals and classes and at night. Told her night time would be dead until after the campwide activity. Compromise ensued: I kept the store open during the campwide activity no matter what and it counted as hours I worked. As long as I made 10 sales an hour during the time she did not want the store opened, it counted as hours worked, and I was suppose to get comp time at the end of summer. Only got 2 days of comp time instead of the 5 weeks they owed me. And she didn't make that deal the second year.

If I could up vote you 100 times, I would

Sadly, I have seen this first hand as a pro. A lot of new DEs are just out of college with little to no experience in the program. Prior to going to "DE School" aka Professional Development Level 1 training, I needed to complete basic training for all levels of traditional Scouting: Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, and Sea Exploring/Exploring (now Sea Scouts and Venturing). Thankfully all I needed was Cub Scout Basic Leader training. But you can only learn so much from training, no matter how good the trainer. And DEs are not encouraged to work with units. I busted my butt working with one unit to help get them started and was severely reprimanded. While I did not help them in an official Scouting capacity after the reprimand, as a member of the CO, I helped them out. I have found the further up a pro goes, the less in touch with the volutneers on the ground they are.

While I was in Cub Scouts from August 1982 - May 1985, moving from Wolf to Bear to Webelos was not a big deal. No ceremony, nothing. Blue and Gold was a party, with some folks getting ranks/awards as earned. And we didn't have entire dens receiving the ranks at the same time; it was in ones and twos. The only big deal was Arrow of Light and Crossover. That was always in May, and a Cross Over ceremony was always immediately after. Sometime in the late 80s or early 90s, I am going to say August 1989 since a lot of changes on the Boy Scout side occurred on that date, Cub Scouts changed. Instead of a 3 year program starting at 3rd grade, with Tiger Cubs being a separate optional program for packs for 2nd graders, Tiger Cubs were incorporated into packs, the grade levels dropped down a year, and Webelos became an 18-24 month program. Literature at the time promoted a February AOL and Cross Over for the Webelos so they can get use to their new troops and get ready for summer camp. Somehow over time, some packs morphed Blue and Gold from party celebrating the BSA's birthday to the event that Cubs MUST earn all their ranks by. And some packs, as well as professionals I found, think that Blue and Gold is when Cubs should move up instead of the end of the school year.

From the literature and videos, 4 per pack. [sarcasm on] GEE. Didn't see that one happening.[sarcasm off]

OK this may help. From the Guide to Advancement https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf In the same spirit as “Do Your Best,” if a Cub Scout is close to earning a badge of rank when it is time for him to transition to a new den, the pack committee, in consultation with the den leader and the Cub Scout’s parent or guardian, may allow him a few weeks to complete the badge before going on to the next rank. Earning it will give him added incentive to continue in Scouting and carry on and tackle the next rank. (pp 19) I know some pack will move everyone up at Blue and Gold, and from your post I am assuming that is what is causing the concern. FYI that is not allowed. Again fromthe Guide to Advancement. Cub Scouts do not “go back” and work on ranks designed for earlier grade levels, even if missed due to their time of joining. Likewise, Cub Scouts do not “move ahead” to the next rank until the completion of the current school year (or until their next birthday if their chartered organization transitions by age). [emphasis added] (pp 19)

Since the end of the year is May 31st, is there any way they could finish up by then? I've seen Cubs ceremonially moved up to the next level, i.e."promoted" or "graduated," with out earning the previous rank, but working on it still. Cub Scouts had some interesting rules under the pre- June 2015 Program that carried over to the June 2015 - December 2016 Program. I think this one is still in effect since the program changes occurred in December 2016. Although June 1st is when they officially move up on paper and can begin working on their next rank ( May 31st is recognized by National as the last day of the school year), if they did not complete the previous rank, they have until August 31st (last day of the BSA's Program Year) to work on any previous advancement. HOWEVER they cannot work on both old rank and new rank at the same time. One or the other.

Sounds like gambling, which not allowed. Selling items like pants, shirts, backpacks, etc is one thing. Paying to play a game, completely different. While it is an individual, doing this and not a unit, this may help https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/510-274.pdf

1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS. 2) I too want to know more about Magic Draft. 3) I've seen Scouts sell stuff to other Scouts before, usually uniforms and gear. I myself had a "business" in high school of going to the local thrift store and buying used uniforms. I resold them with a slight mark up, usually $0.50 to $1.00.

I shared the links and documents with the troops core adults. They pointed that nothing in the information posted requires separate troops, except on paper. "Girls's troop" could have the same committee and SM (national states should not versus cannot refering to SMs), meet at the same location at the same time, do joint activities, etc. In essence National leaving a very wide loophole that COs and Units can use to essentially have coed troops with segrated patrols. Which appears to be the plan with my troop if the CO agrees to it. .

Somewhere in either the G2A or Webelos Den Guide, or whatever it is called, there is specific rules saying that someone who joins 4th grade or earlier MUST (emphasis) earn the Webelos badge prior to earning the AOL. Grant you it is doable to earn both of them in a year as our LDS brethen show us, I do not think cramming 14 activity badges, which is suppose to take 1 month per badge to earn so that is 14 months of activities, into 6 months is doing a service to anyone.

It's not the requirements that changes, but the election process. Before the late 1990s, folks voting were limited to the number of names on the ballot; a one name to two eligible ratio essentially. Now you can write in everyone's name. A lot of Arrowman were upset when the current rules came out.

Funny you say that. One of my Eagles and his ex-girlfriend paid me a visit one night and we had very interesting chat, She was a PhD student in psych, working on her dissertation human behavior and leadership. Both of us started talking about how working at a Boy Scout summer camp as staff would be an excellent field study for her. And then we reminisced about summer camp, the troop, etc.

Never thought of it like that before. Maybe that is why we are having so many problems with helicopter parents: THEY cannot cope with their child's absence. (caps for emphasis).

@ItsBrian, how much does your council charge for day camp? I know that when I went to NCS and first found out about paid day camp staff, the day camp could cost as much as Boy Scout resident camp. Back when I was a DCPD, cost was $65, $75 with late fee, and no one was paid. Cost is now a whopping $85, and still all volunteers.