T2Eagle

We'll need to make some minor adjustments, but I don't think either of these changes will have a big impact. Except when we're on a backpacking trip, most of our tents are sized as 4 man, and we usually tent two to a tent, occasionally three, but that is most often because three scouts want that. We have mixed age patrols, but when the scouts are choosing tent partners they're generally close in age. I suspect that when we do run into a challenge it will be one older scout as odd man out. Either he'll pitch his own tent or toss in with someone the same age from another patrol. The 72 hour role will similarly have some effect but not get too much in the way. We already have everyone who wants to camp with us do YPT. The most common trip we have longer than 3 days is summer camp. We often have an unregistered parent come out for a night or two, which won't trigger the rule. Most of the adults willing to spend half a week are already registered, or the type of adult we want to recruit. The other 3 day trip we take is usually Memorial day. We do things like whitewater rafting, canoe trips, or "up north" to the northern part of the lower MI peninsula. depending on the trip we are usually right below or right above the 72 hour mark. These trips do tend to attract more non registered adults so we may end up adding one or two more adults that wouldn't normally want to make the commitment. So if we add a couple of adult registrations for 3/4 of the year we're looking at an additional cost of $24 a piece. Doing extra paperwork is never my favorite past time, but this is pretty deminimis.

You maybe on the way to being registered, but you may not be there yet. In order for any adult to be registered with BSA they have to first complete Youth Protection Training (YPT). If you haven't done that yet AND also submitted some proof of it to go along with your paper application, then likely your app is sitting on a desk somewhere waiting for that to happen. Most registrations, I mean probably 95%, happen through individual units, and so the unit leaders make sure that applicants end up as registrants. Being a nonstandard part of the process in a big, slow, stodgy, bureaucratic organization, it is very possible that your registration is effectively no one's responsibility and you are as likely as not going to fall through the cracks unless you do all the follow up. If you haven't done YPT, go online my.scouting and do it, then find out who has your paper application and get the proof of of completion matched up with it. Once that's accomplished you'll be issued a membership number. You then need to go back to my.scouting and enter your BSA member ID into the account you set up to take the training. Be forewarned, no scouting computer system talks to any other. National membership doesn't match up to national training, neither match up with whatever online system your council is using. Scouting is a wonderful program with a woeful bureaucracy. Keep in mind the former as you gnash your teeth at the latter. Thanks for being willing to serve. On a different note, would you mind telling us what is motivating you and your daughters to join, how old are they and what is your experience with the program, if any.

That still seems a little inexact to me. I never understood the two adults requirement to apply to all meetings in the same way it applies to trips and outings, but they say that for boys this is not a change. But assuming that this is the new rule it doesn't specify there has to be a registered female leader, just a YPT trained female adult. We have a fair number of people who are YPT trained but not registered. In the troop, if you want to come camp with us once a year we don't register you, but we do require that you take YPT; we're chartered by a catholic CO and we require that they take diocesan YPT as well. In the Den and Pack I can see this being satisfied by having a whole bunch of mothers take YPT, and as long as one of them is present you're OK. Same in the troop, although that will be a bit more of a challenge, we have female adults, some registered, some not, on maybe 1/3 of our campouts. Clearly a female troop would need to increase that number.

Interesting, they haven't put that on the website. Here's what it says currently. Adult Supervision/Coed Activities Male and female adult leaders must be present at all overnight coed Scouting trips and outings, even those for parents and children. All male and female adult leaders must be 21 years of age or older, and one must be a registered member of the BSA.https://www.scouting.org/training/youth-protection/

I've allowed scouts to make dumb decisions that left them uncomfortable and used it as a learning experience. I have also intervened frequently and told scouts I'm uninterested in their preferences when it comes to clothing and safety. Clothing is part of your equipment, a tool, and like all tools needs to be used properly. Uncomfortable scouts are their problem, scouts on their way to hypothermia (or sunburn) become my problem, and I like to solve my problems before they really become problems. It's a fine line, and you have to take into account a myriad of situational facts to decide which approach to take to further the scout's learning. I will say that we have a packing list that's provided for each type of outing, and the scout is expected to have everything on it; we ask that parents help their scouts to Be Prepared in this way. If you're supposed to have a wind/waterproof shell for an outing (in our troop you are, for every trip) than you need to have that with you. If you don't want to bring iy you don't have to go. What you do with it once you're on the trip gets handled as I mentioned above.

I realize that this person SHOULD be speaking from a place of expertise, but has anyone seen this in writing as a policy? I haven't yet taken the new YPT, is it in there? The FAQs I've read have said that there can be male den leaders and SMs for female dens and units, and has been silent about having to have a female leader always present. Even requiring the second adult at an event to be registered is somewhat of a change from the current two deep requirements.

I don't know the actual numbers, but I don't think our Lodge has as many as eight people on our ceremonies team. My suggestion would be to refocus on what is most important and cut back on the rest. If you only have time to practice the ceremony just practice the ceremony, leave trail clearing, etc. either to others or undone. The quality of the trail is irrelevant compared to quality of the ceremony itself.

I'm unclear why this is seen as a bad thing. For folks championing an outdoor program I would think encouraging families to camp and/or hike together, including and maybe especially into the back country, this should seem like a good thing. This is the kind of thing I did with my family growing up and the kind of thing I've done with my family raising my kids. I'm assuming this is being driven at least in part by economics which would seem straightforward. To make all the various program areas, like rock climbing, available at Philmont, you have fixed cost X, if you don't have enough people paying to participate to cover X you have to either close down some areas or increase the paying participants. It's possible you could reach some tipping point where the non trekking participants start materially interfering with the trek experience, but it's not necessarily a given that you'll get there, and it certainly isn't going to happen in any near term. Ask yourself how many scout families in your troop are realistically candidates for this.

You're correct; turns out it can't be used for transfers, which is what a Webelos crossing over is. The unit guide for the online application said "Youth and adults who use this system should be new to Scouting or be currently registered in a unit and applying to multiple in a different unit than the one in which they are currently registered. This system is not designed to register non-paying adult positions, position changes in the same unit, or youth or adult renewals." Since it didn't say it wasn't for transfers I was hoping the "multiple" part would cover them. Our Pack used the system successfully for new Tigers, but since 90+% of new scouts for our Troop are either transferring from Webelos or another troop it is effectively useless to us. This is disappointing but I guess not surprising given BSA's track record with technology.

Has anyone used the online application in my.scouting to enroll Webelos who are crossing over? We are just starting to use the online application, and the first parent who tried to register said she received a message saying that he is registered already and if they need or want to transfer, they need to contact the scout master. When I check Application Manager I don't see anything indicating someone is trying to join the troop. My second question is whether folks using the online application find it easier, harder, or neutral to use compared to old fashioned paper applications. Thanks,

We had a young man with pretty severe Downs become an Eagle scout a while back. Lots of paperwork to get the right dispensations. I have to say I was happy witth the outcome but really disappointed with some of the reactions of some of my fellow scouters outside the troop. Best guess, the local guys got out over their skis with their approvals, and didn't give the family a realistic view of the possible obstacles they could encounter. That National got involved before all the paperwork was submitted would indicate someone locally was unhappy and made a complaint over the heads of the local Council.

The only reason I returned to Woodbadge after the first session was because it was required in order to be SM for the Jamboree contingent.

This scenario used to bother me a lot. After a decade as SM I've come to see it differently. I've now seen several years worth of scouts I've known since they were Cubs move their way through the program;. Some of them stay enthusiastic the whole way, for some of them the enthusiasm waxes and wanes. I've had kids lose interest and then come back in exactly the scenario you describe, parental push plus some belief (frankly mistaken) that it will have some effect on their college app. Some others come back because they decided that being an Eagle Scout was something they wanted to accomplish and it meant more to them now than it did when they were 15. I also just attended the funeral of one of my Eagle scouts who's path fit a scenario somewhat in between. What I've learned is that the important thing is how strong your program is so that the time they spend in the troop has a positive effect on them. As to when they make Eagle, the trail is theirs to walk not mine; they have from whenever they start until their 18th birthday to walk it. They can sprint (I made Eagle when I was 13) or they can meander. It's not uncommon for a scout to make Life and maybe even put in the next six months in a POR by the time they hit 15. The big hurdle is always the project plus bearing down on the last few merit badges. If a scout puts their head down and keeps right on and makes Eagle when he's about 16 but then fades away, not abruptly but just getting caught up with junior and senior year, no one really thinks less of him. What's the difference between that and having that fade away come first and then return for the big push as 18 approaches. Nothing in the requirements says you have to work continuously towards Eagle. The requirements are the requirements, and it's not that hard to maintain their integrity. The linchpin for that is the POR, they have to hold it for 6 months while they're LIfe. The first six months, the last six months, or some combination of first and last. Make sure you have defined (reasonable and consistent) requirements for both what you expect and the attendance they have to have and you can always feel good that the scout did what needed to be done. There are as many trails to Eagle as there are Eagle scouts. If you have a good program, month in month out, year in year out, you'll be more proud of some of them than others, but you'll never feel bad about any of them.

Thinking back on it, there was a discussion on the merits, or lack thereof, of Dutch Oven cooking, that got pretty off the rails. So I take it back, not the weirdest.

This may be the strangest discussion I have ever seen in this forum. You guys can read significance into anything. This is nothing more than a job description for a just past entry level HR department position. Someone with either a bachelor's degree and a couple years of experience or maybe someone straight out of an MBA or Master's program. This is the type of back office position that helps the wheels of any organization keep turning --- the equivalent of a junior level accountant or finance person --- a bean counter. Nobody thinks these positions are sexy, but the fact is the beans need to be counted, and organizations that don't do that well on either the finance or the people side end up adding unnecessarily to whatever challenges they may have in the core of their mission. I spent the middle chunk of my professional career as a Fortune 500 HR Director. I despise some of the ways that job descriptions like this are written. It has a lot to do with being able to make comparisons for compensation across a large organization. It's not pretty, and can be done better, but I find it no worse than the terrible verbiage I come across every day in my role as an attorney. As to the confidential stuff, folks in HR have access to all sorts of confidential information, everyone's salary, medical conditions, disabilities, folks who may have performance problems, people who may get fired or layed off, investigations into misbehavior, etc. The way you find out whether someone can handle the information (other than holding your breath and hoping) is you ask in the interview what kind of information they've had to handle in the past, ask about previous employers' process for maintaining confidentiality, and generally make sure that the person understands what confidences are and how how to handle them. Again, these same inquiries occur in all sorts of organizations, and are more particular in some organizations where its core to their mission, like law and accounting firms, or medical practices. This is a really low level job, about the same as a new DE, and you guys are combing through it like it's the next RichardB.

This is part of what makes it somewhat interesting to me. Both my sons will be over 18 and in college by this summer, one of them will still be registered, the other dropped off this last recharter because despite the best of intentions he just hasn't found any time to help with the troop. Timing is everything, but the Summit is about 5 hours away, it at least crosses my mind that this would be a fun way to go spend a long weekend with them.

I think there are certainly going to be challenges, including with finding sufficient volunteers to staff new units, but I think your last sentence indicates where they're going to come from. I may be a little off in my math, but I think roughly half of all volunteers are already the parents of a girl. I suspect that's where much of the crop of needed volunteers will come from, scouters who have daughters as well as sons. Different people place different emphasis on what programs they most want to invest their time in, but my experience is that the folks I know who are volunteers, men and women, are volunteers for both their sons and daughters activities. I suspect there will be enough scouters who decide the program is a great program, and worthwhile for their daughters as well as their sons, and there's your labor pool.

This just popped up in my email. INVITING ALL ADULT SCOUTERS AS A THANKS FOR WHAT YOU DO!ADULT ADVENTURE WEEKEND http://www.summitbsa.org/AAW?utm_source=adobecampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=aaw_2-2018 I'm sure there's going to be a lot of disdain for this idea here on the forums. But although I'm not that personallyinterested in going I can see there being some merit to the idea. For now I think I'll just grab some popcorn and see how my fellow forumers want to proceed.

Well, that was easy.

I think the first few responders may be misreading what was posted. This isn't a case of not having two adults on an outing, clearly there is a den leader and at least this one parent . This is a question of whether Cubs must have an adult directly watching them at all times. There is nothing in the G2SS that mandates this. So the answer is going to be very subjective, seven year old Wolves aren't ten year old Webelos, and walking through the local park isn't the same as either a back yard or a big Metro park. In my opinion, 7, 8, 9, and 10 year olds don't have to have adult eyes on them at all times --- that certainly was not the standard when i was growing up, and I can't see how you can have that as the standard and then expect first year, 10.5 to 11 year old Boy Scouts, understand how to behave on a campout under primarily the supervision of a Patrol Leader or Senior Patrol Leader. As an example of sanctioned supervision levels similar to what the OP describes, our Cub day camp uses teen counselors, 14-17, leading den size groups of cubs through their stations at our council camp during Cub Day Camp. There are adults on staff, but the cubs themselves are usually moving around sans any adult eyes directly on them as they make their way through their day. Without a lot more detail about ages, distances, locations, instructions to the den chief, etc. I can't render a specific opinion. But there isn't a clear violation here, and with what's described I would probably be more comfortable with the Den leader's views then the OP's.

We haven't fully decided yet, but our most likely approach is going to be doing the same recruiting we always do, just opening membership up to everyone, girls and boys. From there we'll probably handle recruiting den leaders for girls the same way we handle recruiting for Tigers --- get all the appropriate parents in a room and explain that there can be no program unless one of them is willing to step up and be the den leader. One thing we will not be doing is targeting Girl Scouts or GS leaders. We're sponsored by a Catholic parish, and we're one of many ministries for youth, we've never insisted on exclusivity and neither does anyone else. Just as you can be in say CYO and Cubs, there's no reason you can't be in both GS and Cubs. Which brings me to my next point, thinking about having enough volunteer adults. Yes it's always a challenge, but CYO sports has for years been single gender, and has always managed to find enough adults to simultaneously run two of everything (except football). I don't think for a second it will be easy, but there's a model that gives some indication that it will be possible.

Sign them up as District Popcorn Kernel?

Our council used to, maybe still does, allow a unit to care for a cabin at one of our camps in return for a reduced or free weekend rental. Seems pretty easy concept to apply to a campsite.

As a former HR executive, what I tell people is that anything you have on your resume should have a purpose, usually either to convey an argument about why someone should hire you, or as a prompt to a discussion that will then allow you to make the argument why someone should hire you. An additional consideration is the amount of space you have available on your resume. Since you're young, I assume you don't have a lot of other experience and so using some space to highlight scouting is good idea. If you want to put something about the prospect of becoming an Eagle scout on your resume, what I would do is the same thing that people who are on track to graduate but haven't yet graduated do, which is give the date which you honestly believe that you will achieve the award. For degrees it usually reads something like Bachelor of Arts, Anticipated May 20xx. So you could do something like, Anticipated Eagle Scout Award xmonth/year xxxx. You are thereby conveying accurate information that is pretty easily understood even by someone with no knowledge of the program, and more importantly you are setting up a prompt for someone to ask you about being an Eagle Scout. AND THIS IS THE CRITICAL PART, you need to be ready --- to have practiced out loud in a variety of ways -- to answer questions about being an Eagle, about your project, and about what it all means to you, that will serve as an argument in favor of that person hiring you. I cannot emphasize enough how important that last part is, BE PREPARED, practice these answers and other anticipated answers ahead of time. Practice out loud, have other people ask you questions, practice, practice, practice.

I think you're going to see a lot of rescue/search and rescue with drones in the future. Think about the time and energy that can be saved in say searching for a lost hiker with a handful of drones ahead of a handful of on the ground personnel.