T2Eagle

I don't want to say there is something wrong with camporees, but I can tell you the view of the majority of our scouts is that they are over planned and overscheduled. As an example, a couple years ago we attended a winter weekend camporee. On the schedule of activities was a Friday night movie. Now, my scouts would never plan a movie as an activity, but to each his own. On Friday night, a scouter came by and told my scouts come on guys time for the movie. No one moved and he added something like "you're going to be late" my SPL said umm, that's OK, I don't think any of us are going. The scouter was really non-plussed and finally said, well that's the program for tonight and you guys should be there, you better talk to your scoutmaster. I heard all this but was out of sight of the scouter. My SPL came to me and asked if we had to go, they were planning the local version of capture the flag instead. I said of course you don't have to go, go run around in the woods like you're supposed to, and if anyone has any questions send them my way. At various times at round table when they were asking for suggestions about camporees I have suggested they curtail the scheduled events to either one afternoon or one morning and leave the scouts free to make their own fun the rest of the time, but everybody looks at me like I'm crazy so i stopped even suggesting it. I've enjoyed some camporees and my scouts decide to attend one about every other year, but the district holds at least two a year, sometimes three, and the council holds one, so we're only going about one out of eight times.

I don't know if there's any official guidance, but that is how co-ed Venture crews would be/are treated.

A different view of this scout, shot from behind with a full view of the coffin in background, was the home page of the Washington Post yesterday. I couldn't isolate the picture to post; I was sure you would be able to get a version for the forum.

We have one member of the committee who is the eagle coach, occasionally as CC I end up reviewing and approving the proposal. We look for what Fred Johnson mentioned. In essence I want to know that the scout has a handle on what the project is and what it's going to take to get it finished. We also want the scout to have at least a conversation with the District Eagle Coordinator to make sure he is comfortable with the project.

So to be clear, is the EIN in your name, "Troop xx" or "friends of Troop xx"? When you say the CO isn't a non profit, all that means is that they're not incorporated. I understand that they don't have an EIN, but they should. Either they, whoever "they" are who signs the charter agreement with BSA each year, should be getting this EIN, or you should be putting the EIN in their name. It may be that there's some confusion in your organization about what a CO is and does. They own everything the troop owns, including the money in the bank, whether they understand that or like it is irrelevant, that's the way it is. If this EIN is either yours or belongs to some new thing called Troop xx, you may have solved the practical matter of how to have a checking account. But it's a bit unkosher and doesn't represent the actual relationship between the troop and the CO, which in your case is that they are one and the same and your business dealings should reflect that.

You need to go back to your Chartered Organization and COR and tell them this is their problem as much or more than it's yours. If BSA doesn't care that you're not a formal corporation that's fine and is up to them, there is no law that compels them to make that a condition of being a Chartered Org. But there is a law that the owner of a bank account has to have an EIN. Again, I don't believe you have to be a state sanctioned corporation to get an EIN, but it really needs to be your Chatrtered Org whose EIN you use or else you, the individual, are seen as the owner of that bank account. They've flown under the radar so far and maybe they can continue to do so by just not changing anything at the bank. But it's a terrible idea for you personally to be the owner/holder of the EIN. And it's a dereliction of their responsibilities to not provide the troop with a functioning bank account. My advice is to tell them to straighten out their bank account or limit your responsibilities to bookkeeping and have whoever is currently on the account to keep signing the checks. It's possible your Council could help you with this, but best guess is they'll either give you the same advice or suggest something either more cumbersome like becoming a formal corporation. ETA: Jahaza posted while I was typing. Follow that link it has great instructions, but stand by the idea this is the Chartered Org's EIN not yours.

Malum prohibutum vs malum in se: "wrong [as or because] prohibited") an unlawful act only by virtue of statute, as opposed to conduct that is evil in and of itself. Depending on the state, or country, you live in, and ignoring some philosophical questions of federalism, this scout's possession of MJ is illegal simply because he is not yet 21. When I was a senior in high school I could legally purchase and consume alcohol approximately three hundred yards from my back door but not thirty feet down the street from my front door simply because I had stepped over a state line. Today, if my 21 year old son hands his 17 year old brother a beer they have both broken a law. If instead he hands that beer to me and I hand it to my 17 year old then no one has broken any laws. I point this out not because I think breaking the law, even a law that may be only statutory in nature, is OK, but because the nature of the transgression , unlawful vs. evil, should affect our response to and view of the transgressor.

No one, including myself, lives or has lived the Scout Law perfectly. When and whether that level of imperfection becomes a disqualification for a scout becoming an Eagle scout is first an individual judgment that a scouter makes when asked to specifically state that he or she believes the scout is showing scout spirit by living the oath and law, and then a collective judgment made by the troop committee, the chartering org, and then the council and bsa itself. If you believe that you cannot, either because of this particular event or because of your view of the scout as a whole, say the scout shows scout spirit than you're not obligated to say that he does. But it is worth remembering that other people of good faith and character may feel differently. Just as none of us are perfect in our scout spirit so also are none of us perfect in our wisdom and judgment. if there are other leaders in the troop whose judgment you have valued at other times and who may feel differently than you do today than make that person your designee and see if their discussion with the scout yields a different result. You don't have to like the decisions that other well meaning people make, you just need to decide for yourself whether the fact that they are different is sufficient for you to cut ties with an organization where you believe that you are otherwise having a positive effect on the lives of the young people you serve.

Curious, does this mean the scout has two EBORs? I've never heard of that.

I have to disagree LeCastor, the essence of a patrol is that they organize themselves, with some leadership and formality in the form of a PL. A functioning patrol will probably fall into a recurring set of roles, the same way any group of people will, but there's no virtue in compelling that or spending a lot of time trying to formalize or enforce that. If a patrol is struggling then defining some roles for a period of time until they mesh together and find their own level may be helpful, but for the most part the patrols know what tasks they need to complete and are best left being held accountable for completing them.

January/February no firm dates yet, we have a weekend planned at Pokagon State Park in Indiana, they have a frozen toboggan track. We also do "Camp Alaska" where we eschew tents and build our own shelters to sleep in. We devote a minimum of four troop meetings to training specifically for winter camping: clothing & equipment, cold weather first aid, cooking, and fire building. Our hope is for lots of cold and plenty of snow.

Like everyone else my advice is appeal. Clearly one EBOR member had a widely divergent view both the other two members and the SM. We, and your son, can believe he was well meaning and just thoroughly mistaken. That's part of life and there's no shame in following the procedures necessary to correct a pretty obvious mistake. Read the Guide To Advancement and start the appeal process. The decision will be corrected, your son will be awarded his Eagle and can continue a proud career as a scout.

I'm really disappointed in this thread. I clicked hoping for a discussion and recipes for some sugary, gooey, pastry goodness, and you guys are talking about can openers.

What position did your unit intend to register the person for? Presumably the person filled out an application for council to apply the code to. The only exception to that I can think of is if the person is supposed to be a Tiger parent. My only experience with scouter reserve is college scouter reserve, and they pay regular registration fees, as do all adults who are registered scouters.

I think this is the start of a good project, and i'm not surprised that it wasn't given the green light right away. Projects that are unusual are often treated skeptically because that's human nature. I suspect that what caused the greatest skepticism, besides its novelty, was that it is centered on donating only his legos and that the benefit to the school may not have been clear or convincing. If your son wants to follow through with this I would suggest two things: 1) get in contact with the school and get their support, in writing, for the project, including specifically why this would be particularly helpful to the school's unique mission; 2) expand the project to include a drive to collect other lego kits so that it isn't just about his own donation, and yes, include some sort of storage container, purpose built or purchased, so that you are giving the school a complete package. Best of luck to him.

We include other groups' ideas when they are relevant to what we're teaching and when they are consistent with our Aims and Methods. BSA has its own requirements for shooting sports certifications. NRA certification is not a component of certification for BB range. I don't recall whether it is a component for more advanced ranges like .22 and shotgun.

What strikes me is that you're assuming both an extreme lack of knowledge on the part of the parents and an extreme level of complexity for youth running a program. How would you be doing this if you were starting a new troop for boys --- as has been going on for 100+ years? There could be some value in the girls observing how the boys run their troop for a few weeks, but mostly I think what you need to do is get the girls to jump in and start putting together THEIR program. Get your troop together, see who wants to be the leaders, have them work with the their fellow scouts to plan a campout --- where do they want to go, what do they want to do, how are they going to feed themselves. You can help them find equipment, but see what they think they know already and what they think they'll need. Skip the joint opening, closing, and game; Troop 123 isn't a subset of Troop 456, it's Troop 123, they know how to say the Pledge, they'll learn how to say the Oath and Law, they're as capable of deciding how to organize and enjoy themselves as any other troop. Once they get back from the first campout, great, what did we do well, what do we want to do differently. Now plan a couple more trips and start thinking about other things like advancement, if they're interested in that they'll read the handbook and start planning how to knock out requirememts. But what they probably want to do most is what all youth want to do: get together, get outside, and have some fun. Some of the other things you mention could be helpful, like having the parents of the new scouts observe how a current troop operates, however, maybe I'm wrong, but I would guess that many of the parents of girls joining the program are going to be the parents of sons already in the program. The essence of scouting is a group of youth being empowered to develop their own outdoor program. Focus on that and the rest of the stuff will follow.

Thanks for the replies. The scout who contacted me came to our meeting tonight, said one of his buddies may also be joining. Of interest, the scout's mother told me that the reason they want to transfer now is that the troop is folding early, a year before the rest of the LDS troops, because they were going to be part of the pilot program for the new Church youth program.

Could you be more specific and point out exactly where you see it not meeting Scouting's Barriers to Abuse. As described this is youth to youth communication. If a scout texts or emails or snapchats another scout is that now a violation or a situation where we adults have to require we are copied in? Pointing to several pages of verbiage and saying read here is unhelpful.. If it was obvious we'd all see it, if you want to be helpful, and help us both both serve our scouts and keep them safe then spell out exactly where you see what we apparently cannot.

I can't think of any policy that would cover this, other than to say that YPT rules DO NOT APPLY because there are no adults involved and it's not actually a troop account.

Thanks, I was misinformed. There are very few LDS units in our council and none in our district so it's rare that I interact with any scouters from those few units.

I received a call recently from a parent who's son wants to transfer from an LDS troop to our non LDS troop. The scout and family are actually members of our Catholic parish, but he joined the program with his LDS buddy and has been continuing with them ever since. When I spoke with the mom, she said there may be COUPLE OTHER BOYS INTERESTED IN SWITCHING, IT WASN'T CLEAR WHETHER or not they were members of the LDS. The scout is currently 2nd class. My understanding is that there are some differences in advancement requirements between LDS and non LDS troops. Has anyone any experience with this kind of transfer, are there any rules that might govern the transfer of rank and requirements between the troops?

If a smaller troop, say 5 scouts, was scheduled to go to a camporee, but couldn't get a second adult to camp with them, I don't think anyone would hesitate to offer them a scouter from the district or another troop to make sure their scouts could camp. This situation is no different. It has nothing to do with the gender of ether the scouts or the leaders. It is not uncommon for troops to sometimes struggle with this and for other scouters to help. I've done this a handful of times over the years.

We talk often about lawsuits being filed, or the fear there of. Can anyone list any significant successful lawsuits against BSA , or a troop, or a CO for its membership or advancement policies that actually resulted in a court ordering a change in either advancement or membership. I play an attorney in my day job, and I can think of almost no grounds for bringing a successful suit that would ever make anyone an eagle scout or force any individual unit to do anything about admitting a particular individual as a member. This is mostly a boogeyman fear, and as scouters we should be good enough citizens to recognize it as such.

Our council hasn't announced anything. Given the expected numbers I think most weeks will be boys only, or effectively so, without anyone doing much of anything. We have five districts in our council, the goal is to have at least one girls troop in each district, I think we're going to meet that goal but not exceed it by much. So at best we'll have eight maybe ten troops in council. I think our camp is almost 50-50 in and out of council units these days, and it looks like we camp about 200 units each year so if we had all our own girl troops and doubled it with out of council troops that would mean we only have 10% of units would be girl troops, and I think that's optimistic.