SSScout

BIG candles. Collar to catch the wax. No carpets in the ceremony room, bare floor. Cubs will be impressed, no matter what, with candles and solemnity of the adults and older Scouts. Design your own, simple ceremony. It sounds like you have one, go with it. Include Boy Scouts in it if you can, talk about "Scout Spirit" alot, and the passing of the Spirit from the older to the younger. See you on the trail....

Not me personally, but my Troop has been twice. Noted recommendations: READ THE BOOK. Bug spray, sunscreen (SPF 35 plus), two swim trunks or Scout convertables. waterproof bags for phones,cameras, monies etc. Troop tshirts and/or patches for trading. Hats. You can buy souvenir towels or bring your own. Learn to swim at home and practice....

I just have to promote this underappreciated movie: Troop 491: The Adventures of the Muddy Lions See the trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPcCsGQ_xjY *Warning, adult language* Order the movie on DVD: http://www.troop491-movie.com/

S947: Nothing rude about it, yep I am Quaker. Scout Chaplain at the '05 and '13 Jamborees. It sure is nice to discuss faith here on the Faith and Chaplaincy Forum. Oh, wait.... The Religious Society of Friends started out in the 1650s English reformation/revolution period. At first, there was a desire to be rid of the hypocritical church hierarchy of the day. Hence our traditional, silent, "unled" worship. Later, in the 1820s in America, there was a theological division that created two main branches of North American Quakers. I'll not bore you with the details, but one branch mostly worships without the benefit of "human" clergy, one branch "mostly" has paid ministry, much like a Methodist Church, IMHO, but they do still accept the idea of Spirit led ministry. Really simplified..... Come by Sandy Spring Friends Meeting (Sandy Spring MD) any time....

Awwww, Stosh, Take a vacation, hike the trail a little. Come back when you want. Always a log with your name on it by this crackerbarrel....

""By the way, I consider being paid to dole out "religion" unethical."" One of the reasons traditional Quakers have no paid ministry.

Scouts Canada often has multiple Jamborees for just that reason. See http://skc.scouts.ca/ca/event/canadian-jamboree Nova Scotia in 2017. ""Our other focus is to hold our Jamborees, where possible, on Scouts Canada owned land. This is important as we look to continuing the development of our properties, allowing them to provide a great place for Scouting adventures. "" Nat Jam at Heritage?

*sigh* I worked in a hospital for a while. We divied up the holidays easily. The overt Christians worked Hanukah and Passover, the Jews worked Christmas and Easter, we all worked thru Ramadan when called upon. It was understood. As for the Scout Promise (I wish it was not called an Oath, because we are not "swearing" BY anything) and the lovely poem called the Pledge of Allegiance, well, here goes: Many faiths view " swearing by" anything (a so called judicial oath ) contrary to their scripture . See Mathew 5:33 etc. as an example . One either tells the truth as they know it or they don't, and be done with it. The old Cub Scout Promise was named that because it was/is a promise and we want our youth to realize the importance of Keeping One's Word, yes? The Boy Scout Promise (or Oath , as noted in older Scout literature) is , I think, so named as to make it sound more important. In court, for instance, a lie is a lie, regardless of what one said before giving that testimony. So: many faiths view the Scout Oath as what it really is, a promise given to behave in a certain way and to do certain things. "On my honor". Among them, doing one's "duty to God"... The Pledge of Allegiance, is viewed by some faiths as, first, an unnecessary Loyalty Oath, and secondly, as being too close to Idolatry, and thirdly a possible breech of the separation of State and Religion. Again, it matters not what one says before, but what one does that defines one's patriotism. Why not pledge allegiance to the Constitution and Declaration of Independence? They are more representative of our nation than a colorful piece of cloth. In fact, that is what our armed forces are asked to do, promise to "protect and defend" see http://www.history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html So promising to be loyal to a piece of cloth, no matter how lovely and what it represents (US of A?) may be idolatrist. So the requirement for a Scout to "know" the PoA is fine, but the idea of requiring the recitation of it , ceremonially, may not be for some. I will refer folks to the Supreme Court's rulings on this in the schools for a better elucidation than I can give. Duty to God should be first, yes? And what does that mean? It is , as has been stated many times here in, and perhaps better than I, that God is ultimately defined by the individual, therefore one's DUTY to same must also be individually defined. Agreement with a particular faith will certainly help the individual define that duty. Even B-P had trouble with folks that thought his Scouts were inherently Christian , and THEIR type of Christian, not some other type! Look what happened with that! So if a Scout decides that his Duty to God is to NOT believe in Him, how are we to debate that? Each faith (Jain, Buddhist, Hindu, Jesuit, Methodist, Jew, Muslim,,,,,) has different view of this "elephant" (see the Indostan wonderfully evocative story of the blind men and the elephant) we call God. The Amish ( and I frankly have never heard of an Amish Scout) ask that one "show what a man does with his hands that I may know his heart". Is that not what we are concerned with here?

Aha! I missed that item. Someone in Chap A canceled their arrangement? Even more strange. Why accept the request to help, make all the plans and arrangements and then try to cancel the event? In my pre-retirement life, part of my job was investigating accidents and trying to determine HOW it happened. It was not my "official" duty to determine who was at fault or to find blame , only to collect evidence and testimony, etc. Even so, I realized that in the finding of evidence, I would very likely end up pointing to the cause and who was to blame, even tho I would not be the one to pass judgement, so to speak. Oldscout448, be open and honest in expressing your disappointment and angst. Help to make this a learning experience for your Scouts, and remember, they are ALL your Scouts, no matter which side of the border they live.

Let me understand this. Chapter A has too few members and a newbie advisor to do a quality call out at their camporee, in 11 days, and asks Chapter B for help. Chapter B has a camporee callout scheduled a few weeks after Chapter A's, so Chapter B muscles up and arranges to go to Chapter A's Camporee to help with the callout, with the understanding that if it can't workout, Chapter A will come with their candidates (?) to Chapter B's camporee to have their ceremonial callout there. Is that correct so far? While the OP is enroute to Chapter A's camporee with gear and fellow OA ceremonial team members, SOMEBODY (who??) texts (email??) everyone (really? Everyone?) that the callout is canceled? An hour before the agreed upon time? Was hurricane predicted?? You picked up the pieces (got a crew together) and (forgive the Cub Scout mention) "Did Your Best". Oldscout448, you and your fellow Arrowmen) "did your Duty". You were "Trustworthy". And "Helpful". And " Loyal". You have nothing to be ashamed of and reason to be proud. I would feel "put out " too. I would beat those bushes and find out who canceled and why they thought it should be canceled. Canceled? Good googamooga, they had Scouts expecting SOMEONE to be Called Out (usta be "tapped Out", I know....). Tap out, call out, put out... Chapter A MUST realize (and if they don't their DE or SE needs to make it plain), that no matter how small or irrelevant they may feel as a group, they have been very unScoutlike to you. If Chapter A is in the throes of a rebuilding, then here is a prime example of a chance to "make things right". Understanding. Apologies. Cooperation.. Owning up to a very poor faux pas. And Chapter B has a chance here , too. By YOUR example, give Chapter A a leg up. You won't be sorry. See you on the trail....

Thank you, Merlyn for the reference to Mary Dyer , et al. When political leadership is questioned, it is often folks that "go to the source" that do so. "Believe as I tell you to believe" has always been a contentious idea. Just ask any Quaker farmer who was forced to move from Virginia to Ohio so he could legally free his slaves. "Duty to God" is always an important part of the Scout experience, but defining that duty , and how to judge it's successful accomplishment (can it ever be considered fully accomplished?) is how we get into nasty debates here on Scouter dot com. As a parent, I came to the realization early on that my job was to give my children something to either agree with or rebel against. Many parents never realize this, or that they do this not only by instruction but by example. Such will happen whether or not it is done consciously.

Howarthe: Have we answered your question? Well, I Sure Hope So. If not, please feel free to come back any time, and rephrase it , so we may attempt to answer it again.

blw2: Amen to that. I tried to start "Junior Webelos " and "Senior Webelos" but no one else seemed to pick up on it. Now, we usta have Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, Lion and Webelos (look at the initials : Should have been "Wobeli" but that didn't ring in the ear as well as "Webelo" , I guess. Turns out it stands for "We'll Be Loyal Scouts" . Which came first, the word or the symbology? Seven rays can remind us of these seven virtues... well, if any 11 year old can remember that, he can remember the 12 points of the Scout Law as a 8 year old Wolf, right?

Aye, there's the rub. Qualifications. If the Scout meets the qualifications (days/nights camping, etc. ) and haven't actually broken any of the Scout Law, but merely bruised a point or two, then the SM needs to make it clear in his introductory remarks to the Troop before the elections, as to what is expected, how to choose between the various candidates. They are electing a Scout as an "Honor", not a "Reward". ((? Is there a limit as to the number of Scouts that may be elected to the OA in a Troop? I forget). I like Q's comments: ""At least twice before the election we remind the boys to think about each candidate along two very important dimensions: 1. Does he serve cheerfully? 2. When you or your patrol needs help is he there?"" Do not make it specific to the Scout, except privately , in your SM Conference, how he has not met your expectations in being a "Good Scout", but let all the Scouts know, what is expected of them.

Here we are, talking about doing TOO MUCH in Scouting. Really, us? :-) Look at the few comments above. And other writers on this forum. We have every type of career represented, both active and retired. We have husbands, wives, Gmoms and Gdads. Single folks, you name it. The secret is "balance", Grasshopper, balance. And juggling is a good metaphor, too. How many plates can you keep spinning with out losing some? Which ones are the important ones? Wife, kids? Career, boss? Church? House maintenance? Shoe polish? Scouting is important to you, that is obvious. It shows in your short intro above, in the fact that you sought out this forum. You see the benefit to your son and the sons of others. How do you translate that into action? How to transfer that passion to others? And you NEED the others, believe me. You are valued for your Scouting experience and organizational ability (they want you to be a SM???). Someone else (the same CO?) wants you to be CM and help resuscitate a moribund Cub Pack. Do you have any OTHER parents/adults who share that desire? You say you lost a bunch of Cub Leaders, why did they leave? Perhaps discovering that might help with your decision as to your course. You DO NOT want to be the ONLY Cub Pack Savior. How can you be a Leader when there is no one to lead? If it was me, (and you are not me!) I would opt for the Cub Pack, assuming I have some support. The Scout Troop might need a new SM, but that can wait. If it is already a viable Scout Troop, there are some other candidates in there, somewhere. A Cub Pack can be breeding ground for new Scouts and new Scout Parents. Take those boys hiking, to CSDC, to the museums and zoos and ship overnights. Show those shy young parents how easy it is to help their boys to be confident, independent and able. When they reach Boy Scouts, they will help transform the new Troop into the Boy Led Troop we seek. Seek to hear that boy who says, unbelieving, "you mean I can do that?" You can (you will) help your boy in his Scout career by being his dad (Pardon my assumption) (and how about mom? Where does she come into this, ummm?) . Parents do not necessarily need to "bridge over" with the boy. Some of the best CM and SM are the ones without boys "in the program". AND don't forget to take the training. All good things. SLS, BALOO, all the online stuff, and look for the U of Scouting in your council. Even the SMaster stuff can be of benefit to a CM. Wood Badge? Eventually, don't hurry it. See you on the trail.

1) If the state requires tags on the trailer , then the trailer has a "title". It is a vehicle, albeit a non-powered one. The title has a name and address on it, and probably either the driver's license number or the SSN of the named individual. If it is titled to an "organization", , then the org's EIN, perhaps.. 2) Find the title If no title can be found, go to your MVA/DMV and ask for a replacement title ($$). If named owner is dead, then next of kin will probably have to get in the act. Certificate of death? With that in hand, go thru the process of selling (?giving?) the title to someone (something? ) else. Talk to a sympathetic (yes, they can be) MVA agent about the problem. It is a Scout Troop trailer..... 3) Unit Committee and CO (the COR?) need to talk. Why is the CO a CO for a Scout unit if not to SUPPORT the unit? Closet space, parking space, insurance, etc. all are reasonable "support". If the CO owns the trailer, CO's insurance should cover theft and loss while not being actively towed (check with your insurance agent). Towing vehicle is USUALLY the "insured" if involved in a traffic accident and attached to the trailer. 4) Discuss maintenance costs: Service brakes, new tires, burned out light bulbs (out of the "Scout Spirit" of the adult leaders?). 5) Here's a "what if" to discuss: Mr. ASM tows trailer to the Camporee. Forest fire breaks out, camp is evacuated, everyone is OK, but the trailer had to be left behind and is now a total loss. Who pays for all the tents, stoves, lamps, etc.? How to claim it, God forbid? Is there an inventory? 20 year old trailer is worth how much now? I'm just sayin' ...

EGAD!! Three pages on whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous protestors or by ignoring them end it.... Or something. 1) Swords are , by definition, weapons. If fake or replica, then they are a FAKE or REPLICA weapon. Perhaps the item in question was illegally on the premises, perhaps a moot point. Should we be dealing with weapons, real or toy? Another discussion. What is the purpose? Archery and BB guns are skills to be mastered, used in safety. 2) A sword is a very big knife. BSA does deal with knives and their safe use. Even really big ones. 3)Cub Scouts (and Boy Scouts) use to use the idea of Knights and Chivalry epically in their programs and activities. This has been mentioned. Knighting a Cub Scout? Into what part of Cub Scouting? What award? Wear it where on the uni? Or just for fun? CSDC coming up.... My good wife was CSDC Queen for the Knights of the Round Cub Table. I was Sir Cumference. My buddy was Sir Pentine.... 4) Parent with a problem needs to be listened to courteously and questioned politely so as to make no mistake about their discomfort. Can it be explained? Is there a different understanding that someone missed? Value to be found, none the less, despite the difference in view? Rule to be cited? Perhaps something can be learned from their perspective. 5) As for the danger involved in handling a dull sword replica around Cubs, there was once a Blue Knight in our area that did a really fine presentation in full knight regalia/armor about the dangers of child abuse, on line problems, etc. He had a two handed Clamor, and the kids loved it when he unsheathed it. Until a school principal reminded him of the rule about knives in school, and they found out he had other legal problems which I will not propound here, and so we no longer have the Blue Knight in our schools.... 6) Once upon a time, the sword was not only a weapon, but a piece of male fashion. No English gentleman would be without one, whether he was able/willing to use it or not. And so, when Quakers declared their aversion to violent settlement of any differences of opinion, when William Penn became convinced of the Quaker faith, and asked George Fox if he (Penn) could still wear his sword, Fox reportedly replied: " wear it as long as thou canst". 7) What is the lesson to be learned? Or is it merely some form of (dare I say it) "showing off? See you on the trail....

The DE and SE of the Council should be consulted. There are rules about Scouts (as Scouts, in uniform) fundraising for another , not related to Scouting, organization. Here is some of the information. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/financeimpact/pdf/CFD-Manuals/Policies_and_Procedures.pdf I know there has been backlash about uniformed Scouts ringing bells for the Salvation Army, worthy tho they be.

Maybe the PLC should elect their SPL? PRO gress, CON gress, etc. etc. "The work is done by whoever shows up."

Absotively. There are (unofficially) three requirements for a BSA charter: (1) A willing organization who is willing to agree to the *terrible,* noxious, *inadvisable,* Machiavellian, *draconian (Tongue firmly in cheek) requirements. (2)A group of parents who are willing to be BSA leaders (Scouters) (see previous listing of terms). (3)A group of boys (and /or girls age 14 and over) willing to submit to the rigors of having fun while learning the responsibility (whether they are aware of doing so or not) of maturity. Your unit cannot, in reality, be forced to transfer to a CO with which you are not comfortable. Your DE may have a prejudice in some way to let the Parish be a CO, but they need not be YOUR CO. The VFW or Moose are both good candidates for Scout chartering. So is a Parish office. Take your pick, and get out in the woods!

Bobcatbrown: Welcome to our virtual crackerbarrel! If you are not gluten intolerant, have a Ritz.... "It's for the boys". Keep this firmly in front of you at all times. This man, (call him Carl), is he truly a "Registered Leader" in the Pack? If so, he may not continue to be registered and be a Cub's Leader next Charter time! Does he have a boy in the Pack? Is the boy "perfect"? I would talk to some other parents and get their views on Carl's attitude. Are they seeing the same as you? Next, decide if there is a "policy" about Leaders Being Trained in the Pack, in the District, in the Council. The whole idea about being "Trained" is to try and make sure everyone has the same set of basic "rules" and "resources" to fall back on. If Carl has a hard time seeing this necessity, then the rest of the Pack leadership needs to gently remind him of the purpose of Scouting (as you implied and said: Encouraging Success, following rules , helping Boys grow up to be Good Men, ...). One never knows the full dynamics of another's family life or past history. You will never be able to explain Carl's attitude toward non-perfect boys or training requirements. You don't have to. What you will need to do, is to encourage (there's that word again) your other adults to "do the right thing", to help your Cubs enjoy their time in Scouting, and by example and group pressure, help Carl to see the benefit of such. I remember a Staff Scouter at the National Jamboree who expressed aloud his frustration at some Scouts who wandered into the Staff campsite and asked for some help. Water? Directions? He chastised them for not "being prepared". I ignored him and gave them some water out of our jug and walked them back to the trail to point them in the right direction. My colleague never acted that way again, at least in my sight. He was still a "good Scout" and perhaps was tired past his limit that day. It happens. Carl , in your case , can't use that excuse. Perhaps your example can help him on his way. Good Scouting to you!

""The work is done by whoever shows up".. Sic semper volunteering... You fellows remember the Cub Den because you had Den mothers (at least I did. Then 40 years later I was a Den Leader) that made sure you did memorable things. I still think that plaster cast of a Cub Scout has to be some where up in our attic. Soccer teams will never go up in an airport control tower (do they still allow such things?). We have a dam nearby that has our county's only hydroelectric plant. Our Cub Pack took a tour of it , I remember the cave it was in, the stalactites of (?) hanging from the ceiling, the noise and machinery, man that was neat! By todays standards (Niagara Falls? Boulder Dam?) it is a small operation, but back then, wow! I called the water authority recently and asked if they would do that again for our Cub Pack . The lady said she had never heard of such a thing, did I really remember doing that? They could not , that the D of EP would never allow public access to it . Forty years ago, lady..... So, the Lion/Bobcat/Tiger/Wolf/Bear/Wombat/Leopard/Cheetah Cubs will just have to depend on "whoever shows up" to give them a quality, memorable program.

My uni had no collars! How about this one? And loooooong tails or not so long? Long sleeve or short?

If Mr. Scott sees this, tell Ms Seton that the Scouts of White Oak District in Maryland say hello, and thank you for the interesting talk!

I agree with the observations about the vintage being pre 1920, at least. Some Scouts would have used any hat they could get, not just the flat, wide brim campaign hat. Look at the leather strap "puttees" on those legs. I like the idea,, as has been suggested, this is the cover of a "notebook" to write "messages to the chief". Another idea: one of a set of trading cards, from Cereal, or bubble gum or even tobacco cards. Each card of the set (ten? 20?) might have a picture of a Scout activity on it. I myself have a collection of cards that came in Shredded Wheat boxes of an Straight Arrow Indian Guide Skills set. This might be a remnant of something similar.