SSScout

Not a Sea Scout myself, but I would support such a thing, it would be a nice match to the Venture Scout and Faith and Chaplaincy forums.... oh, wait...

Oh, the ramifications of this thread. One must pick and choose, that is a rule in life. When the Scout learns what is important (Band? Sports? Eagle? Debate club? Video games? Facebook? Instagram? Faith? 4H? ) he will find out that Scouting is a guide, and as such will affect all the rest of his/her decisions and activities. I can remember back in my pre Schmart phone school days. (I would not be having this conversation via keyboard !). Scouts, Band, Drama arts (4 or 5 plays/musicals), School government, church dinners, Key Club, part time job, ) . I learned to juggle and with my parents help, did well. I tried to help my sons and daughters do the same. It s admittedly different these days. 1000 cable channels and nothing worth watching (even the grown Eagle Scout son often says so). Lots of distractions, fer sher. Here's where the SM can be a help, to remind the Scout (and parent ?) what might be more important. "Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer cherce", to quote the carny barker. See you on the trail.

Worst? How about Best ! True story.... Cub Scout Day Camp: 200 plus Cubs. Last day, water festival day. 85degrees, sunny. No Scout Program to speak of (unless you count the slip'n slide rescue rope pull). I am serving as "First Assistant Everything Else" after being Archery Range SO (wife was the CSDC Director ). Even if there is an official activities rotation (bugle every hour), Cubs are running around, getting wet, sliding on the slides, climbing on the hay bales, throwing wet sponges at targets, etc. Woman comes up to me (I am an identified "person in authority") and waves her arms around, quote, " I have never seen such a disorganized bunch of kids in my life ! What are they doing ? What should they be doing? What happened to the great skills and rank earning they did yesterday? I don't know WHAT to think. My son is not doing anything scoutlike today. Why is this allowed ? " I smiled at her and asked, "where is your Cub?" She pointed at the haybale pile "over there !" "Is he having fun? Is he complaining about the activities?" "I guess he's having fun, is that okay for a Scout Camp ??? " I said it was all part of the plan. She starred at me and walked away, shaking her head.

Yeah, I know you know it all, but do I? Maybe YOU can teach ME something. Then again, maybe the Scout Way is what needs to be discussed. I had a good friend growing up. His folks emigrated from Germany just after the war, and had a hard time with ANYTHING with a uniform. He refused to join Scouts , but became an excellent outdoorsman in his own right. I would have trusted him with my life. He earned a double BS from Washington University, moved to Juneau Alaska, opened an outdoor store, led expeditions into the Tongass range. He died saving the lives of a group that met with unexpectedly horrendous bad weather on Mt. Denali. Do we need training? It helps to be humble enough to realize one can gain from ANY new, different experience.

The only "legal" way around this is to lobby the CORs in all the member Scout Unit COs. The CORs are, by definition, the voting trustees of the Council, no matter how it was /is constituted. If you cannot persuade the PTB of the present Council (are there any not so obvious conflicts of interest?) that what they are proposing is not "Scouty", , then someone (you? ) needs to research the actual ownership of the camp in question. Trust? Deeds? Conditions of transfer? There have been other examples of Scout camps being (or trying to be sold) sold in less than transparent ways. See the thread.., Good bye Owasippe.

"The Work Is Done By Whoever Shows Up". Scoutson renovated (partially) the Rabbit Barn at the County Fair . Scouts, school friends, Meeting Friends, 4H friends, two long days... The Rabbit Barn superintendent was a siding contractor, the County Fair and Rabbit 4H Club, the Rabbit Breeders Club all provided materials and support. Facia, trim, paint.... This led to other renovations over the following years. Another nascent Eagle in another Troop replaced/rebuilt the lighting and ventilation system. Another replaced repaired the interior siding and paint. The initial example led to other work. .

I never heard of a "tool wheel". It sounds like a way to make a "library" of your tools. When I teach IOLS Wood Tools, (assuming good weather) in my rather large Axe Yard, I place a tarp on the ground and lay the various axes, hatchets, saws on that for folks to pick up and try. I limit the number of folks in the ax yard, I teach the idea that ONE person (Scout) has charge of the Axe Yard and no one enters with out his/her knowledge and permission. Even a campout on the AT may need a defined Axe Yard (area) for the one (1) hatchet the Patrol/Troop may have brought along.... An axe length's ground, all around...

The purpose of all education is to prevent having to discover things separately, originally, for one's self. Theoretically, WB is intended to educate Scouty folks in Scouting things. The problem is that , despite the detailed curriculum, it is taught and experienced anew by every staff and every class. My WB cannot be your WB. I can pass on many, much of my Scout lore and experience (that bucket of axes and carved tent pegs fer instance). I can tell stories from my experience and youth. WB is like that. I am told that someone who took WB in the 1950's (with GB Bill ?) would not recognize the WB of the 21st century, which is the course I took and then staffed. So be it. I have met folks that take WB many times , just because they like it (!!). I have met folks that have said, such as noted here, that WB was a "life changing experience" "not worth the time and effort" , "something every Scout Leader needs", " a waste of my time and my church's money", "recommended for everyone..." You have heard them all, I am sure. WB is no longer meant as "Advanced Outdoor Living" or " First Class Rank Plus". It is meant to recharge the Scouter's soul. To give some thought to the reasons to folks that may never had considered the WHY of Scouting. Management theory? yep. Scouting fun (critters !) yep. Cooperation? Patrol Method (did BP ever really call it that originally?) ? Yep. Scout Led? By heavy implication, I hope so. Do I recommend WB to everyone? No, I don't. Some folks admittedly will be excellent Scouters without it. Problem is, it's hard to tell who those folks are at the outset. And often, the ones that THINK they don't need it are the ones that give some Scouts reason to quit Scouts. Sic semper mundi. Me ?I like to think that any excuse to go camping is better than none. See you on the trail....

Eagledad, you are certainly correct. I don't think I ever implied to let the onlookers off the hook. Courage? yes. Reason for the courage? There is the nub. Recitation of a poem is not the same as internalizing it, making it your own. The ability to call out a bully, to point and make it stick is an ability often sorely lacking . Have you ever had a situation occur at work where a supervisor tried to blame the issue on a "lack of policy" rather than a lack of ability to make a decision? Taking responsibility for a decision rather than merely quoting "policy"? It's kind of the same thing here. Not every decision can be based on established "policy" . Sometimes one has to fall back on " "what would Mr. Smith do?" (Mr. Smith being the Scoutmaster here). Lacking that, to compare the decision /action to the Scout Promise and/or Scout Law is a VERY good place to start. In the present situation, the other Scouts somehow had not learned to empathize, to see such behavior not as funny but sad. Not to see the SPL "perp" as funny, but as an unfortunate case. I hope the bullied Scout has gained some friends after this event and the SPL has rightfully lost esteem in the sight of the rest of the Troop. He must re-earn their esteem by the better behavior he shows in future.

A Scout is Brave. How much effort, bravery, would it take for a young, inexperienced Scout to speak up, act against an older, experienced Scout? I do not so much fault the rest of the PLC at this party . Yes, they need to be encouraged to Speak Truth To Power (the SPL is "power" here.). They need to absorb, own, the idea of an "ideal". Protect those younger, perhaps weaker (in whatever way) ? Call to task the older SPL that is acting like an idiot, rather than an ideal? Unfortunately, one must ask where did this SPL learn such behavior? I would posit it was not an inherent , intuitive behavior, acting to make the other Scout feel so . . . embarrassed? Humiliated? To what purpose? How is this a fun thing to do? At whose expense ? This is why "Frat Bro Hazing" has been outlawed on so many college campuses, and rightly so. Ultimately, it not only humiliates the object of the hazing, it must embarrass the person doing it. Sad.... Why even consider the Scout Promise and Law, if not to internalize them, act upon them, use them as a guide and standard to judge against? What is the personal argument against such? One must ask, why did the SPL ignore these standards that he "promises" to follow at each Troop Meeting? What is his answer to that question? Again, the SPL in question LEARNED this behavior, he did not come up with it inherently. Older brother? Other sport team mate? MTV movie? How did humiliation come to be "fun" for this (so called) Scout? See you on the trail....

As said above, family time and duties need take first priority. That said, the enrichment and satisfaction you bring back into the family from Scouting can not be obtained in any other way. Your Scouts will , if allowed, become new sons and daughters. Make sure your spouse has little reason to feel jealous of your time and attention to these surrogate sons and daughters . Include her in all your plans and do not let her be "surprised". More than one "real" son/daughter? Make sure your time and attention to all your family is evenly and appropriately spread. Do not forget important anniversaries/dates. Smile lots. Hug lots. Compliment lots. Leave the toilet seat down. Come back from hikes and camping trips dirty but happy to be home and SHOW it. As said above, develop your "staff" and delegate, delegate. Allow others to take responsibility and compliment them when things go right and be sympathetic when things don't. Communicate. Talk. Listen, without judgement, listen. To your "bosses" ::: Wife, work, family, yourself. See thee on yon trail....

True story: Scoutson joined the Troop of my Scout years, much to my approval. They went hiking/camping quite often. To celebrate his "crossing over", we told him he could pick out anything in the store as a present. He already had a good backpack/frame, sleeping bag, cook set from other trips. So, he picked out a 5 D cell Maglight. For camping? Well, he chose it. Took it on one (one) 5 mile overnight hike.... after that, it sat in our pantry for backyard work....

Welcome to the Forums, EF. Yes, lots of changes in the past few years. Many are somewhat foreign to some "old timers", some "about time". The Scout Promise and Scout Law have been the same since first promulgated. If you look at the history, (google Is your friend), the changes in the Law definitions are instructive. The Law Titles are the same. The Scout Promise (or oath) of the BS of A has not changed in the more than 100 years since it's creation, which has to mean something, I think, of it's universality. As to your experience since becoming an "adult" (welcome to the rank of "citizen") , yes, there have been some welcome adjustments. Perhaps the elimination of the Cub Law of the Pack and Cub Promise in favor of the more mature Scout Law and Scout Oath (or Promise) is a problem. Perhaps not. It is asking the Cub Scout to become more mature in their consideration of their activities. Less story (Jungle Book? Rudyard Kipling? ) and more real life? Personally, I am not so sure the elimination of Kipling's stories as a basis for Cubs mythology (regardless of his perceived 19th century politics) is necessary or needed. Every society has actively told their sons and daughters stories to help in the creation of Good Citizens. Proverbs? Biblical stories? Aesop's Fables? One is left wondering "what is Akela? Why is BALOO the training title? " Sic Gloria mundi.... You, sir, I can tell are a future Scout Leader, whatever your status in local Pack or Troop society today. At school, the kindergarteners are taught to memorize the alphabet, their numbers, names and addresses, the Pledge of Allegiance , often the reason for the need for these things come after the poem recitation. . Can you still sing the alphabet song? It is often the same thing in Scouts. Memorize the TLHFCKOChTBC and R and later we will discuss the WHY and the WHAT of those words. There is an old "Star Trek" episode that concerns long ago created words, memorized and deified but without remembering them correctly or the reasons for them. That is what the Scouter has as his/her duty, to pass on , by demonstrated behavior to emulate and by overt instruction to understand, the Scout Promise and Scout Law. That's where YOU come in. Be the Scout you want your Scouts to be. They will see and understand, more than you may realize. More than you can explain or instruct. Your behavior is ultimately more important than your words. Trust me in this. See you on the trail.

I first read this about 1980 and was moved to transcribe it... *(( The true author of this article is unknown. It is here copied from the COME HOSTELING newsletter, Sept. 1980, of the Potomac Area Council of the American Youth Hostels, who received it from Dick Schwanke, Senior PAC Staff Trainer, who read it in the APPALACHIAN HIKER by Ed Garvey, who got it from the Potomac Appalachian Trail Conference Bulletin, which quoted it from THE RAMBLER of the Wasatch Mountain Club of Salt Lake City, which reportedly cribbed it from the I.A.C. News of Idaho Falls, which reported it from the 1966 PEAKS & TRAILS. I offer it here for your enjoyment and inspiration. Note that some of the ingredients are a bit dated. Adjust as necessary. Enjoy!)) "Courageous Cookery" by John Echo* Once the convert backpacker or cycle camper has accepted the subtle gustatory nuances associated with sustained operations beyond the chrome, he should try the advantages of ultra fringe living so that he will realize what he is paying for his nested pots and pretty pans carried so diligently and brought home so dirty after every "wilderness experience". The following system works. It is dependable and functional. It works on the big rock. It even works when the weather has gone to hell, you are wet and cold and the wind is blowing down the back of your hairy neck. It is not for the timid. It consists of a stove, a six inch sauce pan, a plastic cup and a soup spoon. If you insist on a metal cup, you must never fail to mutter "I'm having fun, I'm having fun", every time you spill the soup on your sleeping bag. Breakfast: Instant wheat cereal-- sugar and powdered milk added-- ready two minutes after water boils. Eat from pot. Do not wash pot. Add water, boil, and add powdered eggs and ham. You'll never taste the cereal anyway. In three minutes, eat eggs. Do not wash pot. Add water or snow and boil for tea. Do not wash pot. Most of the residue eggs will come off in the tea water. Make it strong and add sugar. Tastes like tea. Do not wash pot. With reasonable technique, it should be clean. Pack pot in rucksack and enjoy last cup of tea while others are dirtying entire series of nested cookware. Lunch: Boil pot of tea. Have snack of rye bread, cheese and dried beef Continue journey in 10 minutes if necessary. Dinner: Boil pot of water, add Wylers dried vegetable soup and beef bar. Eat from pot. Do not wash pot. Add water and potatoes from dry potatoe powder. Add gravy mix to taste. Eat potatoes from pot. Do not wash pot. Add water and boil for tea. Fortuitous fish or meat can be cooked easily. You do not need oil or fat. Put half inch of water in pot. Add cleaned and salted fish. Do not let water boil away. Eat from pot when done. Process can be done rapidly. Fish can even be browned somewhat by a masterful hand. Do not change menu. Variation only recedes from the optimum. Beginners may be allowed to wash pot once a day for three consecutive days only. It is obvious that burning or sticking food destroys the beauty of the technique. If you insist on carrying a heavier pack, make up the weight you save with extra food. Stay three days longer.

I get the distinct impression that modern packs will not have the longevity of older, canvas ones. My original BSA Yucca pack is now permanently attached to the war surplus plywood (!) GI M4 pack board. I used this from about 1960 thru 1980.... I think the internal frames are very comfortable to carry, but not very adaptable. You are fairly limited to their pockets, very little to tie extraneous things to. Diamond hitch is becoming a archeological artifact. I presently use ( when I need to walk) a REI pack frame with a generic pack bolted (real bolts!) to it, or a Kelty pack and frame of unknown vintage,, given to me by a friend. Next in the mix is my 2013 Nat Jam duffle, which is overly commodious and can be shoulder packed. The Kelty and REI packs are sturdy, but thread worn. The GI packframe and Yucca pack combo is still useable, if heavy in comparison to the more modern gear.

"" There are two ways of spreading light: To be the candle or the mirror that reflects it."" = Edith Wharton =

We are way too far away to advise on this. Your Trail to First Class camp is a local aberration. It sounds like what we call a "Scout Skills Weekend" (SSWe?) . Check with your local camp folks. I would agree, Totin'Chip should be among the offerings. Check with your District Training Chair, see what they do for the Intro to Outdoor Leader Skills (IOLS) for nascent ASMs and BALOO folks. Might could be a Scouter there could come to your TTFC and help out. As it happens, I do Wood Tools at our IOLS. My dad was a timber cruiser in his young days, and I inherited all his axes and crosscut saws and such. I no longer heat with wood, (wish I could) but did some years ago. Taking down a tree, cutting, splitting is very satisfying work. Doing it SAFELY and efficiently is where the skill and satisfaction comes in. Good Scouting to you, bcbro123.

The Charter Agreement requires at least five Scouts to start.....

Too Tall For Cooking? Tiny Tim Forgot Cranberries? The Time For Credit?

bcbro123, "it depends". It depends on someone.... Someone has to set up the axe yard. Someone needs to provide the tools and bolts of wood. Someone needs to model good, safe, skilled behavior. Someone , experienced in such things, needs to Educate, Demonstrate, Guide , and Empower the Scouts. Someone must provide chances, opportunities, to practice their newly acquired skill. Someone….

The three words no Scoutmaster wants to hear.... "HEY ! WATCH THIS !" Would that be a male or female voice?

Once upon a time, in the dim past, back when "Internet" meant "between fish catching equipment", we had an invention called a "telephone". It was attached with wires to the wall, often sat on a small table next to the front door of one's house, or next to a parent's bed. Or, it might have been hung on a wall, say in the room equipped for heating up our Mastodon steaks.... It involved an assigned number, which was encoded into the mechanism , and when done correctly, enabled one to verbally communicate with a friend or relative, or even a store or other merchantile establishment. Connected plastic coated copper wires enabled the electrically energized pulses to be transmitted to other similar mechanisms, thus enabling human to human verbal communication. Such communicative devices enabled properly trained Scouts to arrange gear assignments, camp food allocation, purchasing arrangements, transportation requests and such germane to Scout adventure necessities. Someone , in the dim past, realized that if one person telephonically communicated with two other similarly equipped people (Scouts), and those two duplicated that effort to two more similarly equipped folks, and so on, a quick way to disseminate information and organization could be accomplished. Appropriately, this technique was named a "phone tree" (not to be confused with the rare but useful "Oakey Doke" tree of Naval fame...). It is appropriate to use these lessons from the past to educate and govern our future. Now, it would seem, the "phone tree" has become a "phone fountain" where not just two, but umpteen folks can be advised of the next meeting date at the same time by only ONE person. This in no way eliminates the need to be responsible in our dissemination of information, or the need to READ the email/tweet/etc. in a reasonable time. The Scouts (and some Scouters) I deal with seem to be AGHAST (aghast) that I may only read my emails only once, maybe twice a day. And not while I'm driving. Tweets? Yes, but don't bet on it being RIGHT NOW. Maybe later..... "Ahoy, ahoy. No, this is one. You want two. Yes, two. "

In 5th and 6th grade, we were taught how to outline. I remember Mr. Prentice talking about BIG things and littler things. I guess we made up our own "work sheets" for assignments. book reports, experiments, etc. Merit Badges, exercise records where the idea is gradually be able to do MORE chin ups, push ups, run a mile faster, etc. and be proud of seeing the improved record on paper ! Work sheets, per se, are not a bad thing, but if they take away the Scout's ability to "do for myself" then , yeah, bad thing. And it can take away somewhat, the ability of the MBCouselor/Den Leader to communicate with the Scout....

I am the Lawn Mower parent, but that's only because Scoutson is now 24 and there is no one else to mow the lawn.....

Oh good, an entry on the "Faith and Chaplaincy" forum.... Very appropriate. (maybe I'll make up a piece of tape to put over the wrong title...) It is appropriate to have the Scout think about who/what gave him/her their faith in a "higher power". Faith leader? Pastor? Clerk? Minister? Priest? Rabbi? Imam? Dad? Mom? Neighbor (Mr. Rogers was a Presbyterian minister)? I often come to think of the Hebrew National hot dog commercial.... Very often, the young person (and many older ones of my acquaintance) only consider their spiritual place in the universe if confronted with such a requirement. I have often needed to converse with folks who are aghast (aghast !) to be told that the BS of A is NOT an ipso facto Christian organization. But there you are. Many types of faith are exhibited at the Nat Jam and soon the World Jam. One of the most popular desks was the Sikh table, where Scouts could try on a turban, and talk about this exotic (to most Americans) faith. To be Australian about it, ItsBrian, "Good onya, mate...." and , no, I'm not Australian, but I like the sentiment.