SSScout

BUT that's not what I said ! That's your defensive assumption ! You are making what I said about previous education and experience come to make "religion" claim responsibility for your present condition. If, after all your previous education and experience, "Religion" gets the "credit", how did that come about? Mr. Merlyn decided, NOT "religion", what Mr. Merlyn wishes to espouse. I am merely (merely) observing that even Mr. Merlyn had previous education and experience and came to EITHER reject or accept or (dare I say) adapt those previous experiences and education/training/brainwashing as individually seen fit. Religion takes no credit for YOUR present condition. Merlyn takes credit for Merlyn's condition, as each human must. If the "faith of our father's" speaks to thy condition, so be it. If not, as the carny operator said, "Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice." Karma not withstanding.....

Merlyn, Merlyn. Shame on you for such over reaching. My comment never implied such. I am pointing out that EVERYONE gets some behavior/cultural preference/moral training from their upbringing, which , as they grow up, either accept or reject . Modifications are allowed in this declaration. Even thou, must have had SOME education, no matter what, by example or teaching, that you ultimately reacted to. Cultural sources, parental sources, logical reduction, personal reflection, it is your results , not mine that you declare.

Please note that the Whitlin' Chip and Totin Chip have no specific requirements. There is no BSA list of "do this this way", not like tying knots or cooking or fire building. The teaching of "safe handling" and "good tool useage" is a ultimately a local culture thing. If you are fortunate to have a skilled craftsman to teach your Cubs and Scouts, count yourself lucky. Kids will want to "experiment" . I was at a B&G banquet one evening, helping to hand out the PopCorn Prizes. One young Cub, sold umpteen dollars worth of Popcorn, was awarded a multi blade pocket knife. As the event went on, I saw him pry open ALL the blades, and Presto ! An X-Wing Fighter began zooming around his table ! I paused the festivities, went to his table, asked him directly, "Wow, that's a neat knife. May I see it? " The Cub put the knife down, I picked it up and carefully showed him how to close it , open palm, and then handed it to the dad sitting next to the Cub, saying, "perhaps this can wait until you earn the Whitlin' Chip, eh?" and then went back to the podium and more prizes....

Bizarre. Something as non gender related as computer programming (a gender neutral electric plug is next? Can there be a neutral, non directional electric current? ) How can you possibly gender identify a program? Unless the program HAS to have a name, gender ID attachment? I have no connection with Linux or Windows or.... COBAL, FORTRAN, WITRAN, maybe. The striving for Power and Authority seems to be s a prime example of human emotional desire. Even in computer stuff. Oh, and Merlyn? Slavery has been a "social norm" in almost every past culture , sometime. Same as warfare, unfortunately. War prisoners? Make'm work for little or nothing. Criminals? Same. Immigrants? Indenture. Build up a debt that can't be paid ? Work houses. Profit motive ? Somebody's organizational skills seeking wealth (Morgan, Carnegie, Ford, Firestone, Rothschild, Krupp, don't know any Chinese names) often depended on near slave arrangements. Ego engrandizement? Make someone do stuff "just because". The elimination of slavery has been a goal of many faiths, many good people without religious faith. And the convincement has often come with bloodshed. Logic and faith often work together to win that goal of freedom for all humanity. By their fruits shall ye know them? "Some of the best Christians I know are athiests". What was the original topic of this thread? Pass the pie, please.

#1: Even logic can get things wrong. Logically, slavery can be seen as "good", because it enhances one's cotton/sugar cane finances. Until you become a grain farmer, at least.... Why , logically, should the Master manumit his enslaved people, if not for moral reasons? Either the slave is a human, equal in worth to the Master of the plantation, or he/she is an animal, not worth more than a plow horse (if a bit more intelligent and trainable)? #2: Jesus didn't, but he wanted folks to treat their slaves well, slavery being a social norm back then. The idea that not all "Christians" follow Christ is inherent in the diversity of the denominations and claims. Which are the least hypocritical? #3: Yep. UK Scouting is now more inclusive, but the Scout Promise there still includes a sentence about Duty to God..... perhaps one's duty to God is perceived as NOT believing in him/her/it ? #4: Now Merlyn, you know what I meant. Somewhere in your dim past, you were given some moral teachings, some religious teaching (even that religion is wrong or unteneble). You accepted or rejected it, by your own experience and/or reasoning. Atheism is a religious teaching. It is included in the category "religion", even if it denies the existence of a "Higher Power". I welcome good wishes from anyone. Even agnostics and settled atheists. It does me no harm to welcome such and to offer such. I will ask God's blessings on anyone. My bumper sticker reads "Please God, Bless Everyone, no exceptions." Even you, Merlyn, my internet debating partner.

Merlyn ! Welcome back, old curmudgeonly friend. Nice to see some new debate here in the "Faith and Chaplaincy" forum, oh, wait... None the less, let's get some things straight, not to say agreed between us: 1) Faith is not based on logic. (some) God either touches you or not. Us Quakers say one is "convinced" , even if one is a birthright Friend. The proof of existence of a "Higher Authority" can never be totally logical. There is a reason to call it "faith". One person's coincidence (or evolution?) is another's personal small miracle (or evidence of intended design ?). 2) Jesus was not a Christian. Gandhi started out as Hindu, but he liked to say he was "irreligious". Martin Luther King Jr. certainly based most , if not all his leadings on Biblical principle, to the consternation of many other religious leaders (again, see the SBC). 3) Not all "Christians" follow Christ, as evidenced by Merlyn's example of the Southern Baptist Convention. (how is it other people seem to know more about our history than we do?) . If Jesus is your example, how to reconcile certain churches' political stance (another discussion) ? 4) If one is pressed to give a reason for an action (or inaction), often religious faith is quoted/blamed/mentioned/used. If it is time to be Drafted into military service, a "higher authority " and social history is needed to claim Conscientious Objector status. No draft board in my ken would accept "I just don't want to kill " (see Arlo Guthrie) as a reason not to serve in the army. Buy and sell human slaves? Yep, justification is found in the Bible and Koran. Equality under God's eyes also available for reference. 5) The Sabbath was made for man. Any congregation is populated with fallible humans. Even the Humanist Association. The ideals espoused by any given faith (was Nazisim more a faith than a political system?) can be ignored or subverted by the proponents of it. Catholic Bishops? United Methodist Circuit absorbing failed (by their definition) church property? 6) The BSA is both a product of tradition and the times. The fact that the Scout Promise (similar in every country if not identical) has remained the same for a hundred years means something. That is the ideal, perhaps not the reality. Now the Scout Law HAS been redefined slightly over the years, but the "ideals" are the same. 7) Every person is left with some religious teachings from their upbringing. Even Merlyn. The parents/guardians teach by lesson, example and discipline. The children are left , whether the parents realize it or not, with something to accept or reject. As William Penn once observed, ""It is a sad Reflection, that many Men hardly have any Religion at all; and most Men have none of their own: For that which is the Religion of their Education, and not of their Judgment, is the Religion of Another, and not Theirs."" We do have to make our own way in the world, no matter how it got here. See you on the trail....

So what about my reliable Optimus 8R ? White Gas? Alcohol? Any comparison as to safety/efficiency/supply problems? I still can't take it on an airplane....

This is not so surprising. The Feds have a regulation that ANYTHING that a child might conceivably put in their mouth MUST be tested and certified "Lead Free" . This necessitates the definition of "Children's Jewelry". Our Faith Awards ( Friends Committee on Scouting) are such, and some years ago, when this regulation became more widely enforced, our entire stock of Faith Awards had to be either tested and certified by an independent lab (each piece individually !) or destroyed. We opted to order a new batch (which the manufacturer tested and certified as part of the price) and parceled out a few of the old stock to some collectors and destroyed the rest. The Adult Awards were not test worthy, because they were not "Children Jewelry". Necker slides, Webelos Dangles, faith awards, hat pins, Eagle Awards, year pins, Summer Activity Awards, I surmise if BSA is obeying the regulation, all of them must be tested and certified. Chew on THAT for awhile.....

If you are in the neighborhood, First Annual Native American Festival at Sandy Spring Friends School, 16923 Norwood Rd. Sandy Spring MD 20860, noon to 5pm. OA ceremony teams , take note. Piscataway and Pamunkey tribes featured. See the poster notice: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fbqcpyi37wmv125/NativeAmericanFest2018.pdf?dl=0

Things this Commisher has heard and discussed...... "We can't join Scouts, we're not Christian". "We won't join Boy Scouts, they're not Christian." " Boy Scouts is too expensive, Johnny can't afford to go to summer camp " (they say with Disneyworld stickers all over their car). "" What do you mean we can't (hold a rifle target shoot, go hunting, cut down the trees in the park, hold a raffle, drop our kid off and come back in five days without previously registering....)….. ""

Front: "123 Scout from Anytown, USA" Back: (up near the shoulders) "Follow Me. I Know Where I'm Going. I'm A Scout."

Skip: I'd say this is a good example of one of my favorite axioms: "The work is done by whoever shows up." This young Scout will be one of the ones who show up, yes? And, as has been said, when the other Scouts notice who helps with the dishes, who helps the younger Scouts over the log, who jumps in when the tent starts to blow down, the next election will show who they have come to expect leadership from. The Servant Leader does not necessarily seek the TITLE. she/he leads by leading, not by complaining.

Yep. Went thru several management trainings in the County service. Committees formed to brainstorm new ideas to make things more efficient, meet our goals for service (define our goals), It boiled down to defining who was the "Client", who the "Server". In my case, the defined client was the next down in the organizational chart, and voila, the ultimate client was... (for a transit service) THE PASSENGER ! So who is BSA's ultimate client? The CO ? The Scout? The Scout's parents? What is going to make for a more "efficient" (read "cheaper") way to meet the client's desires? Needs? Does BSA define those NEEDS? or does the client define them? How does a 12 year old define his "needs"? How does a CO? A Parent? And how will they know HOW BSA can meet those needs? It is a "service". You go to a garage because the mechanics can provide the "service" you need for your car's safe efficient (!) operation. How will BSA provide those services that folks will want to come and ask for ? If us old people KNOW that a 12 year old "NEEDS" to get out in the woods and hike thru the Colorado Rockies and sail on a sloop and shoot arrows safely, how will that 12 year old KNOW to ask for that service as the Ultimate Client that Polaris seeks to more efficiently serve?

Souvenir hunters unite. We need MORE specific stuff. Change'm yearly. Wolf'18. Bear '19. Webelos '20. I only have one yellow necker and a blue with yellow piping cap in my shoe box in the back of my closet. Gee, I missed out on a lot of stuff when I was a Scout. I guess today's Scouts will need a bigger shoe box.

First question: Where do you go to use such things? Second: Who is the Trained BSA Range Officer ? I have never heard of a Troop operating such things on their own. Gotta have a Council sanctioned range and Range Officer, yes? Private range ? Archery Club? Tomahawk Throwing Club ?

Does Johnny Scout want to earn the badge or do YOU, Mr. ScoutDad want to earn the badge? I will speak to which ever of the two wants to earn the badge... Does the Scout have a disability that needs to be addressed by the Council Disability Committee to consider an "accommodation" in the requirements? Busy people need to schedule and take notes and keep a calendar and prioritize... All skills learned by successful Scouts.

Who is the BSA "Client?" What is our "Product" ? What is the "inefficiency" this lends itself to correcting? How is any of this going to get the kids out in the woods?

He should realize and be proud enough to keep his uniform "up to date". He can learn to sew on the requisite patches. Rear of MB sash is NOT the place for out of date ranks and such. Jamboree patches, yes. A shoebox under the bed is the "traditional" place for out of date , collected patches. I kept all the patches I earned and places I visited. Source of conversation with Scoutson many years later. A patch blanket is a good thing, but counsel Scout not to let it be the goal. It is a record, but not the goal. See him (and you !) on the trail.....

Eagle project? Counseling services? At risk teen identification? http://usscouts.org/profbvr/suicide/ https://www.fredericksburg.com/features/stafford-boy-scout-tackles-painful-and-personal-subject-of-suicide/article_5f2c17df-6ec9-58d2-8a62-36a7db430bc7.html

A GSUSA Troop that lasts longer than the school terms of the girls (first thru twelveth grade ?) is a rare beast. Such a thing depends on the Troop leaders and is , as has been noted, discouraged STRONGLY by the GSUSA. In my experience, such Troops exist longer than 12 years because of two things: one, the lady leaders (again, men are discouraged from helping, but the Dads do in these GSTroops) really believe in Scouting and take the girls OUTSIDE often. They have seen the benefit, have had the experience themselves. There is an effort to hike, climb, backpack etc. and two, the lady leaders have some Boy Scout experience and model their organization after the Troop/Patrol idea. They insist , give their girls leadership positions. There is protest from GS leaders that , yes, we do outdoorsy things, but it is incumbent on the Troop leaders, more than on any official trained, encouraged program. My "aha" moment came when, on offering to share a recruiting opportunity with the Brownie Troop in my Scoutson's school, the GS leader told me "oh no, we have enough girls, we do not want any more." And, of course, we have heard of the Senior GS 's that double register as a Venture Crew. NOW, they can earn the Eagle AND the Gold award... Double dipping, indeed.

""It is easier to go down a hill than up it, but the view is much better at the top."" = Henry Ward Beecher =

Mich08212: Any News? Check your messages.

Choices. I favor only the first verse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7NjLAi5Alw

Once upon a time, I took my Scoutmaster IOLS training (but did not become a Scoutmaster. The home Troop already had a good one. I became a ASM) with a wonderful set of trainers. I came to believe (and still do), that if anyone were to ask me to define "Scoutmaster", I would point to one of these men. With the experience and skill I already had, I asked if I could help with the IOLS training, and so for the last 10 years I have averaged at least two IOLS courses a year. . The course leader (except for some surgical leave !) has been a gentleman I will name "J". At the end of each course, J provides his ""Eight Simple Rules.... that will make Baden-Powell proud"": ( and I dare say some out there may recognize this) 1. It's a boy lead program (Note, he said "lead" not "led". I see a difference there.) 2. NEVER do anything a boy can do. 3. The Troop leader is the Senior Patrol Leader. 4. The Patrol Method works ! 5. It's a Game with a Purpose. 6. Fail to plan and you plan to fail. 7. A Scout is taught, tested, reviewed and recognized. 8. The Trail to Eagle is a journey not a destination. As each point is named, a SHORT discussion ensues. The list is left for the participants to digest as we present them with their "dangles" ( a hank of rope on a small carabiner). as symbol of their completion. (is that just a local thing?) I have not yet spoken to J about this issue, but I feel he will be concerned. Patrol freedom? Patrol mentored? Patrol adult led? In as much as "All Scouting is local", and "the work is done by whoever shows up". I think this issue will find "adjustment" from the grassroots, eh?

Free range children: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2015/05/26/what-exactly-is-this-whole-free-range-kid-thing/?utm_term=.0a19743e74ab And an old movie, kids run around til dinner time: Our Vines Have Tender Grapes . . .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4k5-Aqobnk