SSScout

Moderators: Would you care to comment on the fact that we are seeing political ads in our banner areas? And , I might say, of a particular bent, not very "balanced". On the local TV, we will see poli ads, one after another, of the whole political spectrum. Not here. I know we are of every shade of belief and philosophy here. I value that. But the ads I see here are, to my mind, particularly biased. Is it just whoever pays the bills, or is there something more at work here?

Be nice if we could do this in real time. Mebbe not AZ: If evolution is "directed", wouldn't God then be able to "experiment"? One type of organism doesn't quite fit the bill , try another. I forget who I read that commented that God created man because he was dissatisfied with the monkey.

Surplus, unsold popcorn ? Nooooo problemo.... * Give it to the homelsee shelters or give n' get pantries in the area. Can one non-profit take a tax break for a contribution to another? * Send it to our Troops overseas. They get hungry too. * Sell it at the various Camporee/WebWeekend/IOLS/SMS training. * "Partnership" with a few truckstops along our Interstates. You have no idea how supportive semi jockeys are of Scouting. * Give it to the Salvation Army. They have lots of programs for needy families and can pass things along. * Send it to the Scout camps in the area. Credit the food budget, internal accounting fun. Snack time in the mess hall! * Philmont and Northern Tier can always find need for extra carbos. * Send it to FEMA for distribution to hurricane hurting people. Goes well with all the bottled water that Coca Cola donates (?). * Use it for packing material for mail order stuff from Scoutstuff. Might even be cheaper than blowup plastic bags or bubble wrap. Just a few ideas. Give vent to your creative muse.

AZ: God the "experimenter"? When, o when will we have the appropriate forum for this wonderful stuff? I might even call it, oh, let's see..... "Faith and Chaplaincy" This really isn't an "issue" or a "politics" anymore...............

Hard to judge from this distance. If their Council is anything like ours, I would not doubt the application for the award might be "misplaced" or "edited" perhaps. Then too, it is not usual for the parent to write the petition for the award. I have been told that it is far the best for a non-family member to make the application. And there is a gradation of awards. Perhaps they felt he deserved the higher award. I wonder if National told them the why of the denial? Interesting that OCC would use his story for promotional purposes, then find it hard to use his picture or to laud his help in time of trouble. Nothing is said here as to what exactly he did other than make the victim comfortable (shock position?). I could not find the OA/Facebook exchange. Not enough detail for me to sign it. The best way to become a hero is to be in the wrong place at the right time.

Short answer to the direct question: No. Merit Badge sashes have three sides: Inside (not visible to ordinary observers), the Front (the wearer's front) and the Back. The Front is for Merit Badge placement. I have seen Scouts get very particular about that, placing only Eagle required down the middle, arranging them in subject groups, etc. but in rows of three. Note to Parents: ALWAYS buy the long sash, and pin it up if necesary. Scoutson will grow into it. Short sash (and two wide sash) is a waste 99% of the time . The Back, according to modern useage, may display MORE Merit Badges and "temporary" patches of note. Camporees, Jamborees, World Conservation award, etc. , but NOT "equipment" patches like the 50 Miler, Paul Bunyan, or "trunk" patches like the Mile Swim, or Life Guard . Displaced rank badges should go into the Memory Box in the bottom bureau drawer. After all, if he's a Star now, we know he use to be T,2,F, yes?

"Hey, Jake, I see you making a wiffle stick. Going to make a fire for dinner?" "Uh-huh". " Do you have your Totin' Chip yet?" "Uh, no..." " Then, you know you can't use that knife, right? Did your Patrol Leader tell you to get the fire started?" "Uh huh. Ben said since I had earned the Whittlin' Chip in Webelos, I could make the shavings to tinder up the fire. I'm gonna do the Totin Chip tonight after dinner with him. He has a hatchet I can borrow, he said. Is that OK Mr. Yablonsky?" " Well, let me speak to Ben. You are being careful. Where's your safety circle?" "Like this?" "Yep, that's good. Keep that knife pointing away from you, you're doing good. HEY BEN!! Can I talk to you?" "yes Mr. Yablonsky?" "Come over here a minute... I want to ask you about Jake, there. Did you say he could use his knife ? He said he didn't have his Totin' Chip yet, but that you said he could whittle those shavings. That right?" "Well, he did earn the Whittlin' Chip when I was his Den Chief last year. I thought I'd let him practice there. I wasn't too far away." "Ummmm, I see . And then, after dinner, you were going to do the tent peg thing with him?" "Yeah. Is that all right?" "I think so. Could you do a whole class for all the new kids? The Eagle Patrol has two newbies." "Sure. No prob, Mr. Yablonsky. Right after dinner, if they are'nt doing cleanup or something else." Even fiction can sound good, if it's based on fact....

Here's a start: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=350293#id_358132 And this: http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=370499 But then you knew that....

So there it is, why here and why now? If any bonafide organization can schedule the use of a Scout camp (county rec department uses Council camp, GSUSA Troop uses council camp, Brownie Troop hikes with Cub Pack) hereabouts, what is the necesity of creating a "partnership" relationship? Is this more of creating an official imprimatur so that any AHG Troop can walk up and say "here we are" for entre to Scout facilities? Hey, the local council went after the Rec Dept to offer the camp to them. Made it easy. Maybe it is just the "local option" thing made "national"? And what, if anything does this "partnership" require of either "partner"? Do we get to use AHG stuff? I'm not saying that BSA shouldn't seek cooperation with other groups, just curious .....

Yeah, we locals never see the sights unless a tourist friend comes to visit... ""Representing American Manhood and Womanhood, a classical figure is on either side of the central figure of a Boy Scout in uniform as he hikes into the future. The Boy Scout and allegorical figures are sculpted in bronze and stand on a granite base. Long Physical Description: Inscribed on the plaza to the west of the sculptural group is the following description of the sculpture: "THE TWO SYMBOLICAL FIGURES REPRESENT THE SUM OF THE GREAT IDEALS OF / PAST CIVILIZTIONS, DEVELOPED THROUGH THE CENTURIES AND NOW AT BEST/ AS DELIVERED BY AMERICAN MANHOOD AND WOMANHOOD TO THE PRESENT / GENERATION." The structure is part of a group containing a pool and benches, recorded separately on the LCS. "THE BOY SCOUT, AWARE OF HIS FELLOWSHIP WITH SCOUTS AROUND / THE WORLD, AND SYMBOLIC OF ALL CUB SCOUTS, BOY SCOUTS, AND EXPLORERS / STRIDING INTO THE FUTURE, REPRESENTS THEIR HOPE THAT ALL THAT IS FINE / IN OUR NATIONS PAST WILL CONTINUE TO LIVE IN FUTURE GENERATIONS. / THE MALE FIGURE SYMBOLIZES LOVE OF COUNTRY, CITIZENSHIP, / PATRIOTISM, LOYALTY, HONOR, INTEGRITY, COURAGE, CLEAN LIVING, AND PHYSICAL DEVELOPMENT. "THE FEMALE FIGURE SYMBOLIZES THE SPIRITUAL QUALITIES OF GOOD / CITIZENSHIP: ENLIGHTENMENT WITH THE LIGHT OF FAITH, LOVE OF GOD, HIGH IDEALS, LIBERTY, FREEDOM, DEMOCRACY, LOVE OF HUMANITY, / LIGHTING THE WAY." http://www.hscl.cr.nps.gov/insidenps/report.asp?STATE=DC&PARK=WHHO&STRUCTURE=&SORT=3&RECORDNO=2

We had our Troop family campout last month. Lots of good fun, new families get to know the old hands, Patrols renew their skills, organization is tested and adjusted. * Patrols share out food expenses. Patrol might be two, might be 8. * Adults become a "temporary patrol" and display cooperation and cooking skills to Scouts (!). * Scouts are held to task for "fairly" sharing with the expenses: Gas, tolls, camp fees, program fees. Each Patrol is expected to tote up and parse out each scout's share of the costs. Drivers get a share/share alike reimbursement for gas and tolls. * Troop collects overall fees per person, (camp fee, program fees) and gas and tolls for the Troop trailer hauling. Trailer tow-er gets double the usual gas/toll reimbursement. Troop treasurer does paper money balancing and issues checks to folks in "adult patrol" to account for food, charcoal, etc. How do you do it? Do you just expect the Scout to "do the right thing" or is there a "formula"? Pay each driver so much per Scout? How 'bout Prius vs Suburban hauling? A difference? The Troop of my youth actually calculated the miles driven, collected so much per mile per Scout and divied up the kitty as to how many Scouts a car carried. More Scouts carried, more money back. Present Troop isn't that precise. And, back then, Patrols would collect $3. from each Scout in the Patrol, and THAT was our budget for the weekend's meals (!) Present Patrols spend what they will, then divy up the cost and collect the shares AFTER the weekend. Is any of this familiar to you?

Gas/expense reimbursement. Now there's another thread for you...

This does beg the question about WHY this happened NOW. How come BSA hasn't /doesn't partner with Royal Rangers or Campfire or Missionettes? Is it purely the religious component or is there something else going on here? Church youth groups have used Council camp properties hereabouts, as has various school districts and park departments. No problems to my mind with these. Why is this different?

All this from a poor kid who wants to go camping without praying about it. I say let him go. And he can go with his buddies and when they sit back and admire the creation, he can say it is beautiful too. Only without benefit of a Creator. Immanuel Velikovski, anyone?

Mich: ""I thought about it as a patrol copetition "" ""Also what would we do with the money collected divide it up to the boys in the patral for there scout accounts?"" Indeed, how could this be a 'competition'? To what end are you 'raising ' the money? What is the benefit from the 'competition'? What are the Scouts learning? Which charity benefits? Are you merely transferring money from the richer Scouts to ,,, someone else? Is Scout Tom going to pay for Scout Kevin's camping? How is that Scout-like? I can see the class competition in the school. They are raising money for a benefit of someone else, or did I misread that? How would it be to do the same thing to raise money for a different worthy cause OTHER than YOUR Scout unit? Part of the benefit of a true fund raiser is the boys learning the worth of honest effort and work. Give and get. Folks appreciate that. A Scout washing my car is always a good thing. Even when the Troop of my youth went out early on a saturday morn and sold warm, fresh donuts door to door we saw the appreciation of (most) folks that we met for our efforts. "I wish you boys would do this more often". "Where were you last saturday when my (family) was visiting?" "Boy Scouts? I don't eat that sugary faty stuff, except when you-all show up". I just don't see the utility of the boys 'competing' in which Patrol can collect the most coin for... themselves?

The original idea, tho good for a school, is not Scout appropriate. As has been said, Scout standards require that the fund raiser provide "value" for the money. There are lots of really neat, team building ideas out there, even on this website (!). And, I must agree, the raffle idea is not in accord with Scout standards. It is gambling. Now, I have seen awards made to folks at a B&G dinner (for instance) that did not involve any money added. Money for each ticket > ticket(s) > drawing > prize = raffle. No-No-No. Ticket number at each place setting, or on program handed to you at the door (it's a pot luck dinner) > drawing > thank you gift = Not a raffle, no "betting" on the number drawn. Pack raises their money the old fashioned way: Car washes, popcorn, Christmas wreaths. And any fund raising can NEVER go directly to the Scout. It must benefit the Unit and the Unit may parcel it out for Scout accounts, but not a direct benefit. Hence the requirement that the Scout account be used for camp fees, Troop museum tickets, Philmont train tickets and such, NOT boots and personal sleeping bags and such. Ticket at table,

Yep, a big step. Try this thread for a past discussion: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=194920&p=2

To answer the original question: No. To answer the next question: Yes, to EARN aMB, the Scout needs a properly signed Blue Card. Now, keeping that in mind, back in the dim dark ages, here's how a Scout did it: 1) Scout browses thru the Scout Handbook for Boys, notes that there is a MB in a topic he is interested in (Aviation, say). 2) Scout goes to SM, says, "Mr. A, how do I earn a MB?" Mr. A pulls out and looks in a well worn booklet and says, call this phone number, and they will tell you the names of the MB Counselors for... what MB? 3) Four or five days later, after band practice and dinner and homework, Scout pulls out the note with the Council office number on it. Figures the office is closed at 9pm, and goes to his mom. "Mom? can you call this office and ask them for the name of a Merit Badge Counselor for Aviation? I'll be in school when they're open". 4) Mom calls the number the next day, gets transferred three times, eventually gets the name of the only MBC in Aviation still registered. He lives about 30 miles away (!) on the other side of the river. 5) Next time mom and Scout visit the big department store in town, he buys the MBBook at the stores Scout Dept (!). 6) Scout takes name and number from mom (real good meatloaf, mom!) and calls him. Dad has already coached him in the niceties and courtesies of calling a strange man. 7) Scout has a looooong conversation with the MBC, who is a retired aircraft engineer and amateur pilot. He talks about the models he has made, the kites he has flown, the uncle he has that won trophies in glider flying. Makes an appointment to visit the MBC at his home a two weeks hence. Scout gathers up his models, starts writing the papers for the MB. Dad gets aviation charts from local airport. 6) Scout visits with MBC. Dad drove him there. Spends an hour in his workshop, R/C flying models every where. Covers most of the requirements. Makes appt. for another meeting. 8) Home again, complete requirements. 9) Dad drives over for next appt. Spend another hour plus talking aviation. Mucho cool. 10) MBC takes out a tan card FROM HIS DESK, fills it out with Scout's name etc. , signs it, dates it, lists his address and phone number. Hands it to Scout. 11) Scout presents card to SM, who copies info from it to another list, hands card back to Scout. That is the card in the Scouts "memory" box. That is the card he presented to the Eagle Board to show he had earned it. No triple page do-hickey. The times they have a-changed.

Merl, my friend, I wonder at the facility you display (as others herewith do) in how you manage to turn another's words to your argument. I just watched the Colbert and Stewart shows, and, man, you do have some competition. From your 10/23 post: ""SSScout writes: Agnostic folk aren't sure, atheists are sure it isn't a being that can't be seen or felt or sued for fault. Nope, atheist means "not a theist," which merely means the person doesn't believe any gods exist. It does not suggest any particular degree of certainty. "" Of course it suggests ALOT of certainty! GOD(s) does not exist! And that is where our argument starts! If my "authority" for my actions is that I have discerned God's will for my life, then we must ask, what is the "authority for the actions in YOUR life? Again, I say ""atheists are sure it isn't a being that can't be seen or felt or sued for fault"" How is this not true for you? I see you claim a non-belief in the existance of "any gods". Fine, does that mean you claim the authority for your actions to be from anything other than yourself? My point was that people of faith seek to do the "will of God", whether that means caring for and curing the leper or killing all the infidels. People of athiest bent seek no such Higher Authority, trying to do the "right thing" from ... umm , what authority? Am I correct in feeling the only authority an athiest would claim must be (therefore) palpaple and (dare I say it) human in source? This is why the Conscientious Objector must show some "authority" as proof of the sincereness of their claim. Even if they do not claim a religious/faith basis, they must convince the military and governmental officials that the CO assertion is not merely their own flippant, convenient to the times, claim. So I believe the athiest MUST have a physical, personally confrontable being, to be there, to disagree with, to 'sue'. Can't do that with a (the) g(G)od. Perhaps we here are a part of Merlyn's god against which he rages.

"The Seventh Cross", 1944, Spencer Tracy

A local Eagle candidate recently completed a very creative project. It is a "Labirynth" behind his home church. He had help from many Scouts and folks from his church. Only took one long weekend. The pastor expressed gratitude and real pleasure in it's completion. In a month, when the grass grows back, it will look as if it has always been there. For those of you unfamiliar with the term, a "Labirynth" is a path design that is used in a meditative way. It is similar to a "maze", except that there is only one circuitous path, and the walker is not meant to get lost or confused on the way to the goal. One walks the path, from the outer entrance beginning to the center goal, with the intention of prayer or meditation on the way. There is usually (but need not be ) a bench or stool at the center to rest on. Then one walks the same path back out to the place of entry. Labyrinth paths can be a few yards or a few hundred or thousands of yards long. They can be inlaid in tile floors or be an outdoor landscape addition. This Scout's creation is about 30 feet across, and is a creative use of stone pavers and sod. PM me for the address, if you might be in the MD area.

We really do need a F&C forum, but y'all know that. What it boils down to, IMNSHO, is what is the "authority" people claim as being behind their actions. Agnostic folk aren't sure, atheists are sure it isn't a being that can't be seen or felt or sued for fault. Folks of faith claim it is a spirit or something that pervades all of the universe in one form or another and that has spoken to and inspired humankind on occasion to certain behaviors. Now, the big problem, ultimately, is the seeming inconsistancy this Spirit has exhibited. For some, their inspiration leads to creation and tolerance and help for the less well. To other people, it leads to war, killing of folks that do not agree, and the enslavement or repression of folks percieved as "different". Often, the people that profess a particular faith appear to not follow the tenets of that faith. The athiest and agnostic observe this and deduce that ALL the people of that faith are like that. Hence, religious folk are hypocrites and "God" is therefore a worthless concept. This concept can be seen at work from any faith, be it the nature based worship of our Native American brothers or the Christian or Hindu or Muslim. When the True Adherent of a faith (follower of Mohammed? Jesus? Ba'Hai? Lao Tze? ) is seen actually doing the teachings of his inspiring person/teacher, they are often seen as "wierd", a "problem", a "troublemaker" or worse. Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr. come to mind. And Osama ben Laden. Then we get into a competition as to who has the REAL religion. Wicca anyone? Aztec human sacrifice is , ultimately, self-defeating. Voodoo has been adapted from African religions and mixed in with Catholic faith in Louisiana. Ultimately, one man's miracle is another man's coincidence. If it satisfies your soul (if you feel you have one), then good luck to you. I dare say that there are some right good Christians out there among the athiests. I personally think that SOMETHING is out there and has affected my life and spoken to me in sometimes loud, sometimes silent ways. Christianity, both as a religion and in personal exmples, has unfortunately often strayed from Jesus' teachings, to our regret. William Penn said it well: " The Humble, Meek, Merciful, Just, Pious and Devout Souls, are everywhere of one Religion; and when Death has taken off the Mask, they will know one another, tho' the divers Liveries they wear here make them Strangers." Ya pays yer money and yer takes yer cherce.

So much for Rudyard Kipling... No more "Law of the Pack" ,therefore no more need for Akela, or BALOO, or the (already abandoned) animal prgression of size and strength. Might as well not have CUB Scouts. Mowgli was a Cub, you know. Might as well call'em , oh I don't know, if the older ones are "Boy" Scouts, maybe "Kid" Scouts or "Young" Scouts or "Sprout" Scouts or "Wannabe" Scouts or "Apprentice" Scouts, or... I still favor the gradation , the transition. Most traditions, societies (tribes?) have a transition from Childhood to Adulthood. Yeah, I know , this isn't from that to this, but it is a passing on from a younger, less responsible time (Cubs)to an older, (Boys) more self-responsible time. The differences in the Promises recognizes that. The continuation of the CSP and LotP and the SP/O and SL is a natural one. I did not see the artificiality of the Venture Promise as necessary, but it is a more abstract, philosophic view. But once again, if you subscribe to the SP/O and SL, why another version? I too see it as not so much an improvement as a change because we can.

One's beading is much like an Eagle CoH. It can be as long and flowery as is desired, or short and sweet. WB can bs directed at the Unit, or the District or council, I guess. So too, the ceremony can be directed to the desired audience. I chose to have mine at my home Troop's CoH. It was the last thing on the program, listed as "Special Award". My WBSM and TG came, I invited some extra Scout friends to witness, and it took maybe 10 minutes. The WBSM spoke of the history and tradition, I ducked down for the necker and woggle and bead lanyard (WBSM is much altitudinally challenged) and sang the song and then closed the CoH with flags and "Great Scoutmaster..." and then to the punch and cookies. It served three purposes: closure for me, some education for the Troop (hadn't been a WBer there in a long time) and encouragement for others to help the Troop along. I think that if the WBer had the history with the CS group (?District event?) and he/she wanted to share that happy occasion there, that was appropriate and wonderful. But 45 minutes? Bad show, old boy , definitely bad form, eh wot? A learning moment, shall we say. Longest I have seen was at a District Award Dinner. Big crowd of 95% adults, lots of accolades, and 28 WBers getting their beads and neckers. Lots of harmonious Gilwell that night, and it was about, oh, say 15 maybe 20 minutes for that part of the festivities.

Contact local Parks Department (city, county) and ask for someone to come out and talk about: * possible service projects * local history hikes/ displays/ museums to go visit (Cub Scouts! Tiger Go see'it!) * Camping possibilities Contact State Parks folks for the same type of thing, and Scales and Tales" type presentations to your Packs and Troops Comtact local Sierra Club and Hiking clubs. Here abouts, the Potomac Appalachian Trail Club loves to come out and give a slide show about the trails and shelters available in the area. Cooking demo out in the parking lot. Real fires, stoves, food. Utilize your IOLS instructors. High Adventure Camps... your Camping Chair should take this on. Philmont, The Summit, Northern Tier, etc. CSDC,,, how the Troops can help the CSDC and (tada!) recruit the Cubs! Don't get stuck in the legalese and paperwork of Scouting.... DO the Scouting of Scouting..... How 'bout a discussion of footcare from a podiatrist? Blister prevention. YiS