SSScout

I overheard a colleague at work speak disparagingly about another (who was not there) as a "retard". As my brother is mentally challenged, I took offense of this term used in this way, and I took the speaker aside and told him that I felt the use of the term "retard" was inappropriate and I told him why. My brother was labeled as "mentally retarded early in his life, had labored all his life to learn and support himself. He had the help and encouragement of my parents, myself and many others. He lives as independantly as possible, given his limitations, and does quite well. I reminded the speaker that in our work (transit bus driving) we were always in the public eye and it would be well if he were more sensitive to his language. Mental Retardation was no longer felt to be the appropriate term for folks that had limitations in their thinking. He listened politely and then tried to defend his language in describing the actions he spoke about. But perhaps "stupid" or "dumb" was a more apt description. He said he was not aware of my family and apologized if he had offended me "in particular". I thanked him and we parted company. Maybe I had at least given him something to think about. He died about 3 weeks later of a heart attack at the wheel of his bus. In the United States, the quotation from Pastor Niemoller is more commonly known as: First they came for the socialists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.

Present banner ads: "VOTE FOR ALL SEVEN BALLOT QUESTIONS" (paid for by Forward Maryland , Isaac Salazar, treasurer) I hope Mr. Salazar has read all the TEN questions on our local ballot. " Grand Canyon Rafting " Now THERE'S something I can vote for. Nary a llama in the lot. Nary.

As in every belief system (or non-belief system. Hello, Merlyn), it is incumbent on the adult/parents to teach the young folks that which is held as important, the truth if you will. Religion, science, politics, nutrition, whatever. BSA24, I hope you do the same. And THEN allow your young folk to "choose for themselves". It is what parents are supposed to do. Give our children something to accept and embrace or reject and rebel against. It's what we do (whether we admit it or are even aware of it) and what they do (same thing). I have two stepsons, a daughter and another son (funny, my good wife has a stepdaughter, two sons and another son). Some have rejected our faith, some have actively embraced it, some told us we were stupid shills for a religion (quote) and years later came to worship with us. I hope you, BSA24, recognize the inevitability of the situation. Some things you can affect, somethings you must just shake your head and smile at and pray (or hope) for their happiness in their choices. YiS&C

Cubs have a "Brag Vest" to wear. Red felt, one can be purchased, or made. Plans are available on line. Recommend making it BIG for the lad to grow into. My Eagle Scoutson kept his, showed it off at his Eagle CoH. Cub Badges in Boy Scouts? Not appropriate. Wear the AoL bar on your Boy Scout uni, under the left pocket. That's good. Cub stuff on back of MBSash? How gauche. Almost like SM that has to wear Totin Chip on pocket flap.

The Llama, by Robbie Burns Wee, sleekit, cow'rin, tim'rous beastie, O, what a panic's in thy breastie! Thou need na start awa sae hasty, Wi' bickering brattle! I wad be laith to rin an' chase thee, Wi' murd'ring pattle! I'm truly sorry man's dominion, Has broken nature's social union, An' justifies that ill opinion, Which makes thee startle At me, thy poor, earth-born companion, An' fellow-mortal! I doubt na, whiles, but thou may thieve; What then? poor beastie, thou maun live! A daimen icker in a thrave 'S a sma' request; I'll get a blessin wi' the lave, An' never miss't! Thy wee bit housie, too, in ruin! It's silly wa's the win's are strewin! An' naething, now, to big a new ane, O' foggage green! An' bleak December's winds ensuin, Baith snell an' keen! Thou saw the fields laid bare an' waste, An' weary winter comin fast, An' cozie here, beneath the blast, Thou thought to dwell- Till crash! the cruel coulter past Out thro' thy cell. That wee bit heap o' leaves an' stibble, Has cost thee mony a weary nibble! Now thou's turn'd out, for a' thy trouble, But house or hald, To thole the winter's sleety dribble, An' cranreuch cauld! But, Llamie, thou art no thy lane, In proving foresight may be vain; The best-laid schemes o' llamas an 'men Gang aft agley, An'lea'e us nought but grief an' pain, For promis'd joy! Still thou art blest, compar'd wi' me The present only toucheth thee: But, Och! I backward cast my e'e. On prospects drear! An' forward, tho' I canna see, I guess an' fear!(This message has been edited by SSScout)

Yeah, I guess I can understand that. Poli adds are like the weather. Just wait, it'll change. ""The Lama The one-l lama, He's a priest; The two-l llama, He's a beast. And I will bet A silk pajama There isn't any Three-l lllama. ""

Check the whistle stop in Thurmond, WVA. Amtrak Cardinal thru Chicago, Wash DC, Balmer, and Neyark. Wisht Ida bought that old hotel in Thurmond.

Let me understand, here, prolepsis is the idea of something happening NOW because something should or needs to happen LATER? So evolution is the defining of how/why something happened THEN because something needs to happen NOW? Therefore, since the Creator wanted something to happen THEN (human souls), he needed to direct his evolutionary forces NOW (which was THEN, NOW) so that the proper things would happen LATER? I tried to get my Scouts to see that I had a whole lot of THEN and they had a whole lot of LATER. I had more THEN than they did, they had more LATER than I did. We both had the same amount of NOW. I had some of then nodding their heads, some of them arching eyebrows, some of then just silently thinking "uh-huh, suuuure..". The idea that God set up the rules of the universe and then stepped back to let it run, I think, is called Deism. Is that also some of wht we are talking about? Trying to make Sense of it all?

Moderators: Would you care to comment on the fact that we are seeing political ads in our banner areas? And , I might say, of a particular bent, not very "balanced". On the local TV, we will see poli ads, one after another, of the whole political spectrum. Not here. I know we are of every shade of belief and philosophy here. I value that. But the ads I see here are, to my mind, particularly biased. Is it just whoever pays the bills, or is there something more at work here?

Be nice if we could do this in real time. Mebbe not AZ: If evolution is "directed", wouldn't God then be able to "experiment"? One type of organism doesn't quite fit the bill , try another. I forget who I read that commented that God created man because he was dissatisfied with the monkey.

Surplus, unsold popcorn ? Nooooo problemo.... * Give it to the homelsee shelters or give n' get pantries in the area. Can one non-profit take a tax break for a contribution to another? * Send it to our Troops overseas. They get hungry too. * Sell it at the various Camporee/WebWeekend/IOLS/SMS training. * "Partnership" with a few truckstops along our Interstates. You have no idea how supportive semi jockeys are of Scouting. * Give it to the Salvation Army. They have lots of programs for needy families and can pass things along. * Send it to the Scout camps in the area. Credit the food budget, internal accounting fun. Snack time in the mess hall! * Philmont and Northern Tier can always find need for extra carbos. * Send it to FEMA for distribution to hurricane hurting people. Goes well with all the bottled water that Coca Cola donates (?). * Use it for packing material for mail order stuff from Scoutstuff. Might even be cheaper than blowup plastic bags or bubble wrap. Just a few ideas. Give vent to your creative muse.

AZ: God the "experimenter"? When, o when will we have the appropriate forum for this wonderful stuff? I might even call it, oh, let's see..... "Faith and Chaplaincy" This really isn't an "issue" or a "politics" anymore...............

Hard to judge from this distance. If their Council is anything like ours, I would not doubt the application for the award might be "misplaced" or "edited" perhaps. Then too, it is not usual for the parent to write the petition for the award. I have been told that it is far the best for a non-family member to make the application. And there is a gradation of awards. Perhaps they felt he deserved the higher award. I wonder if National told them the why of the denial? Interesting that OCC would use his story for promotional purposes, then find it hard to use his picture or to laud his help in time of trouble. Nothing is said here as to what exactly he did other than make the victim comfortable (shock position?). I could not find the OA/Facebook exchange. Not enough detail for me to sign it. The best way to become a hero is to be in the wrong place at the right time.

Short answer to the direct question: No. Merit Badge sashes have three sides: Inside (not visible to ordinary observers), the Front (the wearer's front) and the Back. The Front is for Merit Badge placement. I have seen Scouts get very particular about that, placing only Eagle required down the middle, arranging them in subject groups, etc. but in rows of three. Note to Parents: ALWAYS buy the long sash, and pin it up if necesary. Scoutson will grow into it. Short sash (and two wide sash) is a waste 99% of the time . The Back, according to modern useage, may display MORE Merit Badges and "temporary" patches of note. Camporees, Jamborees, World Conservation award, etc. , but NOT "equipment" patches like the 50 Miler, Paul Bunyan, or "trunk" patches like the Mile Swim, or Life Guard . Displaced rank badges should go into the Memory Box in the bottom bureau drawer. After all, if he's a Star now, we know he use to be T,2,F, yes?

"Hey, Jake, I see you making a wiffle stick. Going to make a fire for dinner?" "Uh-huh". " Do you have your Totin' Chip yet?" "Uh, no..." " Then, you know you can't use that knife, right? Did your Patrol Leader tell you to get the fire started?" "Uh huh. Ben said since I had earned the Whittlin' Chip in Webelos, I could make the shavings to tinder up the fire. I'm gonna do the Totin Chip tonight after dinner with him. He has a hatchet I can borrow, he said. Is that OK Mr. Yablonsky?" " Well, let me speak to Ben. You are being careful. Where's your safety circle?" "Like this?" "Yep, that's good. Keep that knife pointing away from you, you're doing good. HEY BEN!! Can I talk to you?" "yes Mr. Yablonsky?" "Come over here a minute... I want to ask you about Jake, there. Did you say he could use his knife ? He said he didn't have his Totin' Chip yet, but that you said he could whittle those shavings. That right?" "Well, he did earn the Whittlin' Chip when I was his Den Chief last year. I thought I'd let him practice there. I wasn't too far away." "Ummmm, I see . And then, after dinner, you were going to do the tent peg thing with him?" "Yeah. Is that all right?" "I think so. Could you do a whole class for all the new kids? The Eagle Patrol has two newbies." "Sure. No prob, Mr. Yablonsky. Right after dinner, if they are'nt doing cleanup or something else." Even fiction can sound good, if it's based on fact....

Here's a start: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=350293#id_358132 And this: http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=370499 But then you knew that....

So there it is, why here and why now? If any bonafide organization can schedule the use of a Scout camp (county rec department uses Council camp, GSUSA Troop uses council camp, Brownie Troop hikes with Cub Pack) hereabouts, what is the necesity of creating a "partnership" relationship? Is this more of creating an official imprimatur so that any AHG Troop can walk up and say "here we are" for entre to Scout facilities? Hey, the local council went after the Rec Dept to offer the camp to them. Made it easy. Maybe it is just the "local option" thing made "national"? And what, if anything does this "partnership" require of either "partner"? Do we get to use AHG stuff? I'm not saying that BSA shouldn't seek cooperation with other groups, just curious .....

Yeah, we locals never see the sights unless a tourist friend comes to visit... ""Representing American Manhood and Womanhood, a classical figure is on either side of the central figure of a Boy Scout in uniform as he hikes into the future. The Boy Scout and allegorical figures are sculpted in bronze and stand on a granite base. Long Physical Description: Inscribed on the plaza to the west of the sculptural group is the following description of the sculpture: "THE TWO SYMBOLICAL FIGURES REPRESENT THE SUM OF THE GREAT IDEALS OF / PAST CIVILIZTIONS, DEVELOPED THROUGH THE CENTURIES AND NOW AT BEST/ AS DELIVERED BY AMERICAN MANHOOD AND WOMANHOOD TO THE PRESENT / GENERATION." The structure is part of a group containing a pool and benches, recorded separately on the LCS. "THE BOY SCOUT, AWARE OF HIS FELLOWSHIP WITH SCOUTS AROUND / THE WORLD, AND SYMBOLIC OF ALL CUB SCOUTS, BOY SCOUTS, AND EXPLORERS / STRIDING INTO THE FUTURE, REPRESENTS THEIR HOPE THAT ALL THAT IS FINE / IN OUR NATIONS PAST WILL CONTINUE TO LIVE IN FUTURE GENERATIONS. / THE MALE FIGURE SYMBOLIZES LOVE OF COUNTRY, CITIZENSHIP, / PATRIOTISM, LOYALTY, HONOR, INTEGRITY, COURAGE, CLEAN LIVING, AND PHYSICAL DEVELOPMENT. "THE FEMALE FIGURE SYMBOLIZES THE SPIRITUAL QUALITIES OF GOOD / CITIZENSHIP: ENLIGHTENMENT WITH THE LIGHT OF FAITH, LOVE OF GOD, HIGH IDEALS, LIBERTY, FREEDOM, DEMOCRACY, LOVE OF HUMANITY, / LIGHTING THE WAY." http://www.hscl.cr.nps.gov/insidenps/report.asp?STATE=DC&PARK=WHHO&STRUCTURE=&SORT=3&RECORDNO=2

We had our Troop family campout last month. Lots of good fun, new families get to know the old hands, Patrols renew their skills, organization is tested and adjusted. * Patrols share out food expenses. Patrol might be two, might be 8. * Adults become a "temporary patrol" and display cooperation and cooking skills to Scouts (!). * Scouts are held to task for "fairly" sharing with the expenses: Gas, tolls, camp fees, program fees. Each Patrol is expected to tote up and parse out each scout's share of the costs. Drivers get a share/share alike reimbursement for gas and tolls. * Troop collects overall fees per person, (camp fee, program fees) and gas and tolls for the Troop trailer hauling. Trailer tow-er gets double the usual gas/toll reimbursement. Troop treasurer does paper money balancing and issues checks to folks in "adult patrol" to account for food, charcoal, etc. How do you do it? Do you just expect the Scout to "do the right thing" or is there a "formula"? Pay each driver so much per Scout? How 'bout Prius vs Suburban hauling? A difference? The Troop of my youth actually calculated the miles driven, collected so much per mile per Scout and divied up the kitty as to how many Scouts a car carried. More Scouts carried, more money back. Present Troop isn't that precise. And, back then, Patrols would collect $3. from each Scout in the Patrol, and THAT was our budget for the weekend's meals (!) Present Patrols spend what they will, then divy up the cost and collect the shares AFTER the weekend. Is any of this familiar to you?

Gas/expense reimbursement. Now there's another thread for you...

This does beg the question about WHY this happened NOW. How come BSA hasn't /doesn't partner with Royal Rangers or Campfire or Missionettes? Is it purely the religious component or is there something else going on here? Church youth groups have used Council camp properties hereabouts, as has various school districts and park departments. No problems to my mind with these. Why is this different?

All this from a poor kid who wants to go camping without praying about it. I say let him go. And he can go with his buddies and when they sit back and admire the creation, he can say it is beautiful too. Only without benefit of a Creator. Immanuel Velikovski, anyone?

Mich: ""I thought about it as a patrol copetition "" ""Also what would we do with the money collected divide it up to the boys in the patral for there scout accounts?"" Indeed, how could this be a 'competition'? To what end are you 'raising ' the money? What is the benefit from the 'competition'? What are the Scouts learning? Which charity benefits? Are you merely transferring money from the richer Scouts to ,,, someone else? Is Scout Tom going to pay for Scout Kevin's camping? How is that Scout-like? I can see the class competition in the school. They are raising money for a benefit of someone else, or did I misread that? How would it be to do the same thing to raise money for a different worthy cause OTHER than YOUR Scout unit? Part of the benefit of a true fund raiser is the boys learning the worth of honest effort and work. Give and get. Folks appreciate that. A Scout washing my car is always a good thing. Even when the Troop of my youth went out early on a saturday morn and sold warm, fresh donuts door to door we saw the appreciation of (most) folks that we met for our efforts. "I wish you boys would do this more often". "Where were you last saturday when my (family) was visiting?" "Boy Scouts? I don't eat that sugary faty stuff, except when you-all show up". I just don't see the utility of the boys 'competing' in which Patrol can collect the most coin for... themselves?

The original idea, tho good for a school, is not Scout appropriate. As has been said, Scout standards require that the fund raiser provide "value" for the money. There are lots of really neat, team building ideas out there, even on this website (!). And, I must agree, the raffle idea is not in accord with Scout standards. It is gambling. Now, I have seen awards made to folks at a B&G dinner (for instance) that did not involve any money added. Money for each ticket > ticket(s) > drawing > prize = raffle. No-No-No. Ticket number at each place setting, or on program handed to you at the door (it's a pot luck dinner) > drawing > thank you gift = Not a raffle, no "betting" on the number drawn. Pack raises their money the old fashioned way: Car washes, popcorn, Christmas wreaths. And any fund raising can NEVER go directly to the Scout. It must benefit the Unit and the Unit may parcel it out for Scout accounts, but not a direct benefit. Hence the requirement that the Scout account be used for camp fees, Troop museum tickets, Philmont train tickets and such, NOT boots and personal sleeping bags and such. Ticket at table,

Yep, a big step. Try this thread for a past discussion: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=194920&p=2