skeptic

Well, why are we in this mess now? The less than straight forward lawyers did exactly what they do when given a chance. The files were not witheld, just not open to the public. Of course, we also still need to consider the eras as well, espcicially the libel laws of the past. You will never find a perfect answer, and there is not doubt many mistakes and a great deal of poor judgement when seen in the light of the current society. You cannot separate the realities of trying to remake history. History should help avoid mistakes if viewed with logic and balance, but it cannot fix the past.

But, how much of this will see the broader media, if any? A story that encompasses what Scouting really teaches and is will likely not bring their attention beyond noting some scouts were on the train. But, we all should still be proud of the example.

Hopefully we will see adjustments to this. For example; as part of the agreement for facility use, the BSA, LC will make an impertuity loan of all such equipment to the unit, charging them say $1 or something like that. With a little imagination, the units can continue pretty much on course and not worry that the LC will suddenly step in and say we want all our equipment back to offer to another group, or whatever. Or, can't the equipment simply be owned still by the church and they "loan" it to the unit in perpetuity?

Trying to take a deep breath and see how it goes. Our church has assured us they want us there; in fact we have more space than before for storage and such. They have approved us turning the two main meeting rooms in the basement into partial museums, as we are in our 101st year. My understanding is that other churches with longevit also are hoping to keep that tenure in place. I need to check into it, but if we had to find a new CO, but kept the site, would the unit tenure transfer to the new CO? That is the biggest concern if we needed to find another sponsor. But, until we see how thi

I know we had issues once or twice with the county and maybe even the state. We had to replace the well after it collapsed due to the drought issues and age. Then it had all be recertified. We use a local portapotty system for camp sites and outlying activity areas, and we have a relatively new system at the pool with individual stalls and a connect system to septic tank. The other main part of camp has some challenges due to age, but is also septic connected but needs updating. The county keeps a very close eye on us; do not know if they do that to other camps in the area, but would hope

Say what you will, these people seem to not find their levels of billing usurious. Who on here, of normal populace, ever made three digit hourly rates? What is non working transportation hours? I know, it is our system. And that is half the problem, as it has become far too much of money pit than a legal equity and fairness instrument. And since the wolves are in charge of the system, little will change unless we find a way to get rid of many of the wolves. Just saying. I am a peon, and this whole thing reeks, and worst of all is that the survivors/victims are also getting abuse again b

Thank you for another perspective. I agree we need to deal with our own issue in BSA. I just wish the field would widen to deal with what seems a really larger concern, one that "nobody is watching". Those places could even include some of the individuals NOT able to get involved with BSA due to their efforts to do some kind of prevention, and those prevention methods improving. It is a societal problem, as well as one related to the worst parts of humanity. But we also do not want to see another disaster like the McMartin case.

Let me try one more time. The point is that the lack of safeguards in most of these camps is a far larger problem than the BSA due to the apparent lack of reasonable oversight. So, and the article hints at it, abuse is one of the things that the camps are open to and in a far greater way due to the lack of oversight. Note also the comment that no body wants to take that oversight responsibility. IF BSA is held to the grindstone when it has verifiably some the safest camps around due to their program requirements and training, and it is still the target of public disdain and legal attacks,

The whole point of sharing is that this is happening with no where near the turmoil as BSA has, even though they have far safer camps at far higher usage. So, not sure why the down vote, as it does relate as you noted, in comparison.

This article is on point and also, in my view, suggests how skewed the BSA lawsuit and its fall is. While BSA, that has huge levels of supervision and is in some states almost unable to meet all the restrictions, this is going on with little or no serious attention. And, it is not new, nor is it only in California. The article notes that few states have any real supervision over these types of programs, and that most government entities seem to NOT want to take responsibility. It does not excuse the BSA mistakes, it only points out that BSA is not the likely worst player, just has become t

Let us try to not jump the gun with our already biased opinions. Until we see the entire agreement, and we also see how it comes together, or apart, we should move ahead. As far as most gear is concerned, the LC will have no place to keep it, and I believe that is actually part of the larger agreement. We will be very wary of how it works, but it is too early to panic completely or rebel. Our local church is still supportive and I do not see that changing.

"Humanity as a whole" is the key phrase here. And BSA at any level cannot fix that, no matter how many lawsuits or dollars are offered. That of course is the problem from day one. People in BSA are part of the larger existence, "Humanity", or the human species. And controling all of them is not possible, only watching as well as you can to keep the evil ones away. And even then, as is shown, no manner of rules or methods are fool proof. Meanwhile, society continues down the sump while it destroys many of the most overall positive options in its existence. The panacea that somehow we all

A step, but we need it on the Scout level as well. Really no reason to not have coed other than lack of enough women, and that today should really not be a problem. JMO of course. Meanwhile, we now have to deal with the NEW charter model as Methodist units.

Thanks for the share. It touches on a couple of my concerns as to the approach. One for me is taking for gospel, or at least suggesting, that the 82000 number is accurate, even though few have been vetted even a little it seems, and we know the fact exists some likely were harvested. Another part is the time differentials of much of it. One of the primery survivors notes the abuse was also a teacher and much of the abuse was in school settings. Also there is admission that some did not bring it up until years later when the ads went out. That does not mean they are not victim/survivo

This was a short piece I wrote ages ago for the local newspaper when they were doing a series on summer youth activities and asked me to do one on Scouts. Ironically, not much has changed in the couple of decades or so since. Summer Camp It's 6:30 on a Sunday morning. An assistant scoutmaster and I have been at our scoutroom since 6:00, getting troop equipment prepared for a week's stay at summer camp in the chaparral and pinion hinterlands of northern San Diego county. Now, as the scouts begin to arrive, organized confusion begins. One hour t

Webinar this evening. As noted, my main concern is the "ownership model". As noted above, will we have to beg for funding from council, oris there some method that has been designed to circumvent that? I do know that should council somehow think they are going to "take" equipment and other things from us they will not get a positive response. Hope that will not come up. Hoping for a lot of clarification.

Sorry you cannot see beyond the lines apparently, or simply choose not to. The fact that it is being advertised and that few make these types of things without expectation of profits, is my reason for comment. The price of $15 is not the issue, it is the fact that they are charging for it in the first place. As I said, if they were to guarantee those profits all went to your Trust, I would be less critical. I am not indicting those that watch the film; that is their option. You seem overly critical yourself, and that is not like you. Whatever; frankly this has carried on far too lon

Will review the Hulu option, but I will NOT pay for what appears from the intro to be a biased hit piece simply preying on people to make money. IF they were to guarantee all their profits from this endeavor were to go to the Trust, I might have a different view. But the cost should be offset by their backers and advertisers, not by average Joe that just want a clearer perspective on the subject. JMHO of course.

As I stated before, I cannot make real comment unless I see the actual video. Where can we actually see it? I have seen no link as yet, only the intro? Way too many questions without actually viewing it. Glad to see your comment about "various levels", though I truly want to know how many others outside of CO or National chose to be part of the poor response or no response, as seems suggested? Again, we are dealing with different periods of history and different societal responses to what today is noted as unacceptible, period. Any lack of responsible actions is now seen as it should hav

I am already signed up or have on my calendar the webinar for tomorrow. I was sent a similar note from our local minister. My main concern, before seeing the webinar is the definition of Ownership and transferring it to the local council. That is a little bit of a concern for a century old unit with historical items and documents. Also, how that affects any banking situations? My nightmare would be the idea that somehow the Council could simply walk in and take our equipment and whatever else they chose. Would hope that was addressed in the agreement, but have to wait to see. Rela

It is truly a sad and upsetting scenario you present, though we still do not know why authorities chose to not pursue it. Neither here nor there, somehow the banning, which apparently WAS filed in the IV files did not show as he moved, or locals had no clear reason to suspect so they simply did not check with the resources in use at the time. And BSA has admitted that mistakes were made and poor decisions as well. I certainly am not condoning or forgiving those mistakes, only pointing out that they are convoluted over time and are being viewed through more than one mirror. IT should not ha

Unless the video discusses the files as they were intended, and calls them IV files and not the perjorative of Mr. K and others, and also notes that most of the files were not abuse, and points out that that until fairly recently making the files open to others would have been a serious chance of libel issues, and notes the cases that are in the files that were not followed up on by authorities leaving BSA to just separate the individuals, and touches on the strong likelihood that many of the "82,000 claims are not vetted and resulted from legal manipulations, and notes the constant improvemen

I simply quoted the OP. Frankly, it is not worth my time to try to find it in the numerous pages of things on this forum. Most on here over the last year or more have surely seen some of the indicators of exaggeration and possibly supposition by K, as well as some other "legal" line walkers. Reality is that most of the legal people involved often make me pretty skeptical.

"Just wondering about this. I have seen several articles lately about LC owned camps being worth $10 Billion, apparently according to Kosnoff." And he is NOT the champion of the people some seem to think, as should be obvious from some of his actions and his meddling with parts of the procedure and being warned by the judge. I suspect you actually know this.

Oh stop being sensible. Just because ther majority of the World Scouting has little issue with coed, and we even have girls in cub packs with their own Den, why would we somehow think coed in regular scouts should be okay with proper precautions and rules. You would think we would want to draw as many youth as possible and make the needed adjustments.