skeptic

Perhaps a naive query, but it came to mind again when pondering how we used to do work weekends and OA functions at the local camp. Numerous adults with professional skills showed up with their tools, and even on occasion with crews. While few of the pro's were so naive to charge them, in a couple instances it did happen, and you likely never sawy those people again. But, perhaps as an incentive, those type of voluteers might be offered automatic paid membership for themselves and their youth. Similar to the concept with the Military option now. NEVER have the audacity to insult people by NOT appreciating them, and surely not giving them a bill when their work and generally supplies are free.

And that is how camps die; ego or ignornance or the combo. Historical records locally show that the success with camps was always volunteer based, and when the volunteers were ignored or told too hard the camp lost critical capabilities that once were "just fixed" by those that knew how, and gave of their time and personal sources. Scouting is supposed to be nonprofit. IF profit is a factor, rather than utility of a basic source with voluteers, you likely will lose the facility or the people.

Once the hammer is ready to land, include a short term, no more than two months, grace period and also appeal option for unusual reasons. Also, prove to the real adult leaders that those on the Council and National levels also have completed these requirements. I have not seen any actual proof those that make these rules adhere as well. Just saying. I would not be surprised to find more than you might think that are not in compliance.

They also need to stop making excuses about local council independence. It a small portion of the monies donated on a national level were properly shared with those smaller camps, and perhaps National found a few donors from their own list to step in, some might be salvedged. IF Camping is to be a mainsay of the program, the camps need to survive locally. Few local groups can travel to the Big and solvent ones. More importantly, from my view, is the disconnect with our environmental and "teaching" face. Every camp should be an example of how best to protect the enironment, and should find ways to showcase the best options. Today, with huge progress in clean options, all of them should be using those options wheneve possible. Not only a teaching element, but also a cost reduction. Solar and wind are likely possible most places, and often also water power. The camp cuts expenses and the Scouts learn the future. Another barely touched option is partnerships with serious sporting and outdoor companies. Using climbing walls in conjunction with local clubs; offering the camp space for corporate events; embracing the Mike Rowe concept of skilled learning. A bit of the right connections might find large cooking schools for example that might find summer programs a great option for teaching and the camp could again save money and likely often eat better. So much of this is difficult for councils to move into, but with a properly developed National program, with the smaller camps open to it as well, would bring huge forward movement, and maybe even overcome the negative press with the right promos and examples. Just an old guy with odd ideas that get written off.

And there lies the rub. Staffing cannot meet the needs of most youth that work for college money or other things. Years ago, the low wages were okay, as the cost of living was far less, and there were more attendees due to fewer other summer opportunities for youth. Before youth sports and traveling teams, and media that encouraged things few would have thought of fifty years ago, the camp staff experience was still rewarding. Few youth had cars, so that expense was not an issue, and simply the slower pace of life took pressure much of the time.off '

Agree; and sadly those most anti Scouting will find anything to make it look bad. That is a few people's goal it often seems. So, keep the Spirit and its flame burning and dig into the local trenches.

Yep; lots of selfish and greedy people. Meanwhile, back in the trenches we struggle on to live the Twelve and carry on the Spirit as designed. ,

The Limits of Institutional Safeguards No system, regardless of its design or funding, can completely eliminate human malice or structural negligence: The Mirror of Society: Because scouting, schooling, and youth sports draw directly from the broader public, they inevitably inherit the baseline pathology of the surrounding population. [1] The Illusion of Absolute Security: Implementing rules can sometimes create a false sense of security among parents and guardians, leading them to delegate their natural oversight responsibilities to the institution, assuming the "system" is handling the risk entirely. [1] Ultimately, safety requires an active, ongoing cultural commitment from every adult involved, rather than a passive reliance on rules that can be quietly bypassed when nobody is watching.

That reminds me of my efforts, or lack there of, trying to hock Christmas Cards to wind an official hand axe and sheath knife combo as a prize. I somehow got some orders, but soon apparently gave up. Yet I got the prize anyway because my parents just bought the surplus, maybe to get the dun letters to go away, and they sent a lot of those cards for the next few years. Likely similar things can be noted by many others here. I had that set hanging about for years, and think I still have the hatchet with a ruined sheath. Knife, I have no idea. That was the fifties.

While we cannot generally return to the past without considerable adjustment, this may be one place where bringing our short lived Rover program back might be smart. During its short life, it kept many of the "betweeners" involved. Just a thought. Rovers, in various formats thrive in the larger world.

Glad to see you say what GS wiill decide. Ultimately they should "want" to work the program and as BP said, have fun.

Ultimately, Scouting must evolve with the rest of society, but the way to do it and stay faithful to the foundation is the larger challenge. I have no specific answer, other than still viewing the major foundational supports of Scout Spirit as critical. Kind of like the the "Golden Rule"; it really is fairly simple. But we tend to make it less so too often.

Change the word "Boys" to "Adults", and we are onto something.

The larger issue may well be that those "quality" people are discouraged at every turn. I can only speak locally, but more and more are just thowing in the towel because of foolish and non responsive local council people, many who have no idea about the program as it was framed. A really sad example; this past week a Council individual involved in eradicating some of those pesky actuall Scouting people, cleaning up a space, came across a stash of poles and staves. He tried to throw them out as trash wood. When he was challenged he had no idea they were kept to use for lashing and pioneering practice. Tossing old patrol flags because nobody cares. Suggesting uniform closet is a waste of time, and they can "buy" a uniform. Surely most here can add many similar disconnects. Will maybe discover what my status is this evening when the take over squad meets in our location to straighten it all out.🫥🤔😡

As we again are looking at our over a century old troop folding due to the many issues with program and leadership for a broad enough program, I reviewed the concept noted. I could see that it would be viable in some ways, but finding a way to keep the separate units' tenure could be a challenge. On the other hand, it might be viable with some tweaks to fit the histories and such, but cooperative programs. Does anyone know of something like this happening? How do you work with the historical elements? I find myself recollecting that in the thirties we had a Sea Scout Patrol that was chartered separately, but was still part of our larger unit. We had a troop charter and a secnd "Patrol" charter for the crew. That seems a logical concept now. thanks for reviewing this.

The largest issue that continues is the apparent inability to note that selling camps that leave a council without local options does not make sense. And continuing to treat volunteers as ignorant or lacking in ability is not the way to go. For me, also, not putting the important elements of local historical data and material into local perspective is NOT wise. It is that very history and longevity that is most important to bring the program out of its darkness. I keep coming back to the elderly woman that spoke to me at a local Memorial Day event where my unit was serving. She said she was o glad to see the scouts there; she thought they were gone. That is a very telling comment. I can only hope that somehow we might get the shift in focus to service and positive public images, and away from obvious dollar promotions. Sadly, I fear I may not live to see that again, though I say I will be my family's first centenarian, I am not foolish enough to discount that as a long shot. And I already cannot do things I once did, and I miss meetings due to old man syndromes and night driving concerns. One day at a time, and pass what I can on.

https://onscouting.org/2026/05/20/qa-with-scouting-america-national-chair-ricky-mason/ The tone is promising, but my confidence in its viability is thin. Take a look. He says some of the right words, but is there any weight in them?

I suspect a few of my posts on District pages have been wiped, as the council has the office as a moderator on them. But, I generally share stuff I get from the National groups, like Commissioners, and especially On Scouting. I find many are not aware of this, and local council often does not pass stuff along. Their newsletters are always months out of date. IF it came from a National source, I feel it should be okay to share it. Tough if they do not want your to.

As a Vet, I use the military salute while in a Scout uniform, as I was encouraged to do when it was officially approved. I still put my hand over my heart when not in uniform, however, though I have noted apparently it is now authorized even without a uniform. While prouch that I served, it is not the center of my existence, and I still feel a bit uncomfortable with the rote "thank you for your service". I suppose the fact I joined the AF during the rush to draft in the sixties shows I went willingly, though I sometimes think it was a form of doging the Army or Marines at the time. Still, I have credit for four active years and two reserve, and the VA is modhelpful with the local clinics, though the paperwork and computer access is tedious and now often annoying, trying patience. Another related thing is proper marching or drill movements. I used to occasionally show the youth proper turning for drill and marching. But, I stopped when some parents felt it was not appropriate. But a sharp color guard is still important, and if the event has them doing flags, I try to get them squared away and even in step.

Chipmunks??? Another expense for registrations? https://onscouting.org/2026/05/11/parents-and-scouters-get-ready-for-chipmunks/

It is interesting that the original question I posed had to do with why the media picked up story that basically represents someone outside of scouting doing a good deed, and treated it as special. Meanwhile we have the Slogan that we in theory expect our youth to consider doing, but we seldom discuss the subject. A while back I stepped in early in the meeting and posed the query to the group, asking them to describe how they may have met that concept of the Slogan. The discussion morphed into a real interactive thing. We talked about a good deed, and what it meant. We talked about how large an effect it might have and whether simply holding a door, for example was a good deed, and that counted. They should not consider themselves a failure in regard to the Slogan if it was not extraordinary. It eventually morphed into also talking about how the Motto interacted with the Slogan, and touched on the Law. The larger question that now comes to me is how often do we bypass these kinds of opportunities? Do we so focus on getting the "plan" for the meeting accomplished that we lose opportunities? Maybe we need to not be so fixated on some things, but instead listen for these opportunities and explore with our youth. I just read a FB piece about how we, as adults and too often educators, neuter the curiosity of our youth for various reasons. It discussed at what age the kids stop asking why, and how it is related to our NOT taking the time to find out if we do not, ourselves, know. How, if we change direction and explore it with them, that it may have a much larger impact on them, but we also open ourselves again to curiosity. The article was really leading up to an encyclopedic book on what are the most common "why or what" questions of young kids. But, while it was come on for the book, it also did open my eyes a bit more, even at my age. We may need to step back a bit and reevaluate our approaches, not just in Scouting, but in general. I am 82, and I just realized that I have actually learned something about the larger world, and also have gotten a different perspective on why we may do what we do.

When our council started adding a "fee" for these types of things a majority of our leaders sound off negatively. After poor attendance due to the fee stuff, partly due to units refusing to particpate, they revised the program. They now find sponsors for costs and no scout is charged. Guess what, attendance grew dramatically. The next step then was a group meting of leaders where our concerns were hear, mostly not prepping the prerequisites and working on unit communications. I personally stopped doing counseling for the events, and I told them why, though part was just my age and related issues, it was also getting few follow ups from the partials. Those that came prepared, also tended to follow up and arrange a meeting to finish. And that is how I feel it should shake out. I should note that I did have a few parents and a leader or two that were upset I did not sign the blue cards automatically. But, I also had a couple that were glad I did not.

https://www.aol.com/lifestyle/teen-helps-elderly-woman-cross-203010206.html Not sure why this seems to have gone viral. I could not help but think of the long running joke about the Scout helping old ladies across the street. But, my point is simply this is part and parcel an example of what our society seems to have lost, and the fact that Scouting has this as a brick in its foundation.

Work at finding liaisons with other youth groups, including maybe church groups and such. Put together a cooperative or two with local outdoor and sporting stores that run programs for climbing and so on. If feasible, work with local professional groups to use the site for spot training opportunities. Make serious cooperative out reach to local colleges and schools to develop teaching sites at the camp. All things that could be workable, or so it seems to me. Setting rates would need to be fair, and not made to maximize any profit The main thing would be to simply keep trying new ideas and finding cooperative options Corporate weekends might be offered where they could use the sites for company gatherings. The goal woould be to make the property viable, but also to have the community see it as an option. Working with unions might be viable, both in the city and at camp facilities. Union does training at the camp and the camp gets things fixed professionally. Be creative, and if it does not pan out, try other things. Some camps may have the type of location to grow Christmas trees, so that becomes part of the prograam and support. If the camps have unique locations with interesing geograpy, or in our case a fscsimile fort, offer it for movie sets; maybe even incorporate it as part of the MB program to do that. Keep that "can't" at bay.

"As a business the camp is a sunk cost that councils have to pay to maintain and monitor 365. " And here is where some relatively easy adjustments could make huge differences. Weak, or political proxies on a Council BOD is useless. A SE or as seems not the name local CEO, who has little or no concern for the actual membership is a waste of expense and also of time. Scouting has always, in theory been a Community based organization, as its history shows, and it early connection with the YMCA, etal proves. As many training courses, local, and at PTC have suggested; you will get little help from others if you do not ask. But asking just for money is likely a poor method. Community respect, visible viability of local units, and yes, in this case, making real outreach to the broader community to "share" the facilities often donated in early days by people that cared. People mostly still care, especially those that recognize the sad media focus on negative, and find ways to show otherwise, or that it is being worked on for a better way, and a safer way; one that can be a model outside the Scouting families.