shortridge

And if Ben Love, as 55-year old Chief Scout Executive, wore his Eagle Badge on his uniform, who are you to say he's wrong? Someone who can read the rules. The CSE isn't infallible.

A local animal shelter did this at a nearby outlet center. They took an empty storefront and set up a couple of tables as a giftwrapping station, with a donation jar. They did quite well by the looks of it.

While I support opening up the program, I'm still wrestling with the logistical issue of tenting. It's making my head spin around in circles, honestly. In Venturing, we segregate young men and women based on the potential for inappropriate contact or conduct, an open acknowledgement that such behavior could take place. That's just a realistic approach. Do we do the same for openly gay youth in a "new" Scouting program, and why or why not? We couldn't really put gay youth with gay youth - that would be like putting a straight boy with a straight girl ... whether or not there's any attraction there, it sets up the potential for inappropriate activities. Would we put gay youth with straight youth, because nothing's going to happen there? Do we have everyone sleep in one-person tents? Youth of all genders and sexual orientations are going to quickly recognize the hypocrisy if the program does not change in that respect, and they're going to quickly lose respect for the program. Why do Jane and Jack have to sleep apart when John and James don't? Really, that doesn't make much logical sense, and we all know that teenagers especially are focused on logic and have very strong feelings about fairness. They're going to call BS, and loudly. And don't forget that Venturing itself would be undergoing a similar transition. Opening it up to lesbian youth, not just gays, would create tenting/lodging issues on that side, as well. So how do we do it? Do we put everyone in one-person tents? Do we put gay and lesbian youth in one-person tents, while separating straight girls and straight guys? Do we develop honest, open training programs to help adult leaders deal with issues of sexuality and behavior for kids ages 10-18 and 14-21? Do we focus on behavior, and let the youth tent with whomever they like? [slight edit for clarity.](This message has been edited by shortridge)

So a case could be made that Lifers are the thriftiest of all.

Abel, Just one observation... "Additionally, 15 year olds do not attend national camp school as they are too young to actually be a merit badge counselor." NCS is not for merit badge counselors, so even an 18-year-old instructor wouldn't attend. NCS is for area directors and camp management staff, who then come back and train their instructors and subordinates.

What's wrong with offering both? I'm actually kind of surprised National hasn't offered a fleece version yet.

Dover Books publishes a good edition of the original Scouting For Boys that might be of interest. It's fairly cheap.

xlpanel wrote: "If a site has illegal content, it doesn't matter who owns it. Contacting the host and registrar will get it down. Thanks for following journalistic ethics here." Sorry, but that's incorrect. Actually, a principal - or any other public official or individual citizen - has no legal authority to demand that a website be taken down, unless it's operated by the school district. A call to the ISP demanding that it be taken down would get him a bunch of guffaws over the phone, and nothing else. Simply asserting that a statement is "slander" gets you nothing. On the other hand, if the people named on the site were to pursue legal action, they could probably leverage the ISP to take it down. But the principal doesn't have any legal standing to take such action.

BadenP wrote: "Usually a man who has chosen the BSA professional scouting program as his career path has and does know and follow the scout oath and law as well as any volunteer, usually he was a scout as a youth and many were volunteer scouters as well." This may be off-topic enough to warrant a spinoff... but I'm wondering if anyone's seen women who have chosen the BSA professional program as a career path after being Venturers as youth? Venturing has certainly been around long enough now to have started churning out a few potential female DEs after college.

gwd, I have to respectfully disagree with you, and note that knocking off four of those requirements for the Den Chief Service Award are actually quite easy for any DC worth his salt. - Advance one rank? OK, I could probably do that easily within a 12-month period. Not a big deal. - Serve as a staff member of a Cub Scout special event? Pinewood Derby, Space Derby, Raingutter Regatta, pack picnic - consider that checked off. One day and done. - Assist three Cub Scouts to become Webelos Scouts? Assist three Webelos Scouts to join a troop? If the DC is doing his job and working with a den of the right age, that comes as part of the natural transition. - Help to plan and carry out a joint pack-troop activity? Easy-peasy. Plan a low-key campout at a nearby state park and invite the pack out as day visitors for hikes, skill demos and parent info sessions. - Recommend to your Scoutmaster, Varsity Scout Coach, or Venturing Adviser another Boy Scout,Varsity Scout, or Venturer to be a den chief? This is probably the simplest of all. So that's five, and I only needed four. The other requirements are even easier. Their importance, I think, is in helping to really focus the den chief and the den leaders on what his role should be - not just as a bigger Denner or a gofer. It should pose the same type of challenge in responsibility and leadership that a Patrol Leader or Quartermaster faces. Personally, I think the DCSA is the minimum that DCs should be striving for. A one-year committment is great, but how much better is going through the entire program with the same group of Cubs? I was lucky enough to have that experience, and it was great.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

The advancement chair doesn't have a say in the matter. If the Scoutmaster approved his service and he's done a good job, then he gets credit. Simple as that.

My instinctive answer was "Someone who camps." I know in the logical part of my brain that's not always going to be the best person for the SE's job. The best membership/fundraising/volunteer manager in the world might HATE camping. But I still want to see the person in charge of my council out there at least visiting during the day, showing that the outdoors is VITAL, not just "a part" of the Scouting program. The fellow my council has now is like that. He's a leader with his son's troop, visited summer camp regularly and even attended with his son's troop one week. During my five years on camp staff, I don't recall seeing our former SE there even once.

For what it's worth... some recently produced SPOTs are being recalled. http://www.backpacker.com/recall_spot_messenger/blogs/daily_dirt/1534

Just don't say Fess' "Davy Crockett" wasn't real. I might start crying.

"Police say the thief took $30 out of the main billfold but missed $1,900 in another compartment before flinging the purse into the creek." He's going to feel REALLY stupid when he reads this story!

Maps, too. They're cheaper.

Wow ... I'm amazed by the amount of anti-bag rhetoric here! Sewing a simple bag is a great idea. Work it into a Pioneers or Frontiersman program as a "possibles bag" - something useful and rugged that a mountain man of yore would have carried. Some details are here: http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/pbag.htm

skeptic wrote: "The adult ban is on "avowed Gays", those individuals who feel the need to push their agenda and lifestyle in a manner that makes it a public issue that causes problems and threatens some people." So what behavior crosses the line to make someone an "avowed gay" from just being "gay"? Talking about your partner? Wearing a ring? Reading a copy of The Advocate during camp siesta? Any type of behavior can threaten "some people." Upon whom would you put the burden of judging appropriate behavior and setting community standards?

Thinking about this a bit more ... in my experience, it's sometimes very tough to differentiate between the 1st- and 2nd-year Webelos. Their experience levels are due more to their den leadership than their age - some 1st-years will come in knowing every knot in the book, while other 2nd-years have a deer-in-the-headlights look. That said ... you could toss in some hands-on, basic LNT stuff for the 2nd-years - rigging a bear bag, building a mound fire, etc. Any kind of simple cooking is good, whether reflector ovens or foil cooking.

In my days staffing a Cub/Webelos resident camp, the staff developed a common set of program "modules" - for lack of a better word - that centered around the camp theme (pirates, knights, pioneers, etc.). We simply adjusted the program difficulty or challenge for the age or experience of the group. For example, Webelos got a faster-paced, more advanced program of knot instruction than Wolves did. The only program specifically reserved for the week-long Webelos was the outpost program, an afternoon-long event which included a hike to a remote site, campfire cooking (foil dinners), swimming in the creek (vs. the pool), storytelling, etc. That program was born out of a logistical issue - how to get one group of half-week campers out and another group in while not churning up the camp for the week-long campers who remain? Everything else was pretty cookie-cutter, looked at from a numbers standpoint - we have 200 kids and 40some staff, so how do we expose them all to the best program we can afford in the short time we have available? So no, there's not a lot of focus in the NCS training that I'm aware of on how to customize the program for different levels (though I didn't do the CD or PD sections, just Scoutcraft Director). Depending on your camp's resources, there may simply not be enough Webelos attending to offer special, Webelos-only programs. So as others have said, look at other, non-Scouting options for your son, or see if he can hook up with a local Boy Scout troop.

"Yep, either that, or get rid of the psuedo-Scouters, who don't have any respect for, nor do they live by the ideals and values." One person's Kind is another person's Tolerating An Immoral Lifestyle. Just sayin'. Gern, do you forsee celibacy as a membership requirement? Brent, do you know what the rate of membership decline was in Scouts Canada before 1997?

For that "thinking about Scouts throughout the week" goal, go to your local office supply store and buy a stack of reporters' notebooks - they're like steno pads, but skinnier. They fit right in your back pocket, very unobtrusive. Give one to each member of the PLC with instructions to carry them and write down ideas as they come, reporting back at the next meeting. That way there's no excuse - "I forgot what my idea was" ... "I didn't have any paper" ... "I left my notebook at school/in my backpack." Generally, troop meetings should be preparation for monthly (or so) outings - each with a specific goal (activity planning, menus, skills training, etc.). So each meeting has an important role to play in the overall yearly plan, and each member of the PLC can readily see how it fits in and explain that to his patrolmates. Thus, meetings are quickly elevated from the routine to the anticipatory.

More to the point - how does UK Scouting handle camping and tenting? That's the only logistical issue that I see with regard to opening the program up here in the States.

Found a 1997 thread from Scouts-L which says it's the old Artist pin. Can anyone confirm? http://www.scouter.com/Archives/scouts-l/199708/1178.asp

Readyman should definitely be a special Webelos program. You can set up a pretty realistic mock emergency scenario without too much trouble. Get good actors to run the program, and the Cubs will eat it up.