shortridge

First of all, I'm sorry your son and you are having to go through this. But I'm glad he's getting support from his troop - that's wonderful, exactly what Scouting is supposed to be about. Depending on how old your son is, and how experienced an outdoorsman, you may want to look at old copies of the Scout Fieldbook and books by a fellow named Ray Jardine. Both have details on how to make your own gear - from packs to tents to sleeping quilts, and more. There are lots of Internet sites with specific patterns, too. Your son can learn some new skills, develop a personal relationship with his new gear and be the envy of his fellow Scouts for not spending a mint!

Scoutfish, Actually, the rule is: "No council, district, unit, or individual has the authority to add to or subtract from any advancement requirement." That's from Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures. There's a copy at http://scoutmaster.typepad.com/2008AdvancementGuideBook.pdf.

Yikes! If that's lying, I've been guilty more times than I'd care to admit. I consider that kind of buck-passing a tool in my arsenal of arguments. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

My 5-year-old daughter wants a tattoo. She gets ticked off when the temporary ones wash off in the bathtub. My bet is that by the time she's an adult, tattoos will have lost their shock value. I got an ear piercing about 15 years ago ... with a handful of other Scouting friends, all camp staff members. We went out on our night off to a nearby mall, got our ears stabbed and came back to camp with small metallic studs in our ears. We adopted the name "The Platinum Studs." It wasn't a shocker then.

brodiew - For me, I would have to spend 62 hours driving to get to Philmont and back. That's almost a week on the road to attend a week-long trek or training conference. Not feasible from my point of view.

I absolutely agree with CAScouter - the biggest and most important cultural shift you can make to get your Scouts into an LNT mindset is to think light. Move to backpacking and away from car camping/trailers/trucks. It's not an easy thing to do, especially with younger Scouts, but it will pay off in more ways than one.

You could try contacting Estes, a hobby shop or a rocketry club to see if they have some extras or could donate / do a partnership. A raingutter regatta is easy and fun to do, though you run into the same issue with needing a huge volume of kits. It's not really a competition, but if you have a large field, I've seen water wars work wonderfully. Balloons, squirt guns, etc. Just have to do a really good job of policing the area afterwards to get up all the little balloon pieces. (And don't use those camouflage ones.)

Heck, looking at it like that, it's not feasible for Scouts from opposite sides of the country to attend Philmont or Jambo. I give these folks major kudos for working hard on this. Maybe it'll evolve into something bigger and better down the road!

Good luck and godspeed!

Scoutfish, Do you write Hollywood screenplays?

- Dutch oven companies would outsell microwave manufacturers by huge margins. - There would be no need for Velcro on kids' shoes, because even toddlers would know how to tie knots. - TSA would let pocketknives be carried on airplanes because everyone would have them, and the hassle of mailing all those knives back home would be too much. - First-aid-kit vending machines would be just as popular as soda machines. - School uniforms would be the national norm, with a certain familiar color scheme.

Beavah J.D., Could you shed a little light on the subject for us ... my understanding of the principle generally has always been that if you were negligent or didn't follow the law or rules, yes, the insurer may cover the incident and pay out, but it can also go after you for a piece of your hide. Is that a bit of urban legend, a gross misunderstanding of the general principles of the law, or does it have a hint of truth?

"Does anyone else see a way around this?" What you're asking for is a loophole through this policy: "The use of helmets is required for the following activities: downhill skiing, snowboarding and operation of snowmobiles (full face helmets)." So, nope. Your first instincts are absolutely right. This event is a BSA event and your Venturers can't get around BSA's rules by simply registering individually. If you don't want to follow the BSA's rules, then don't get involved in the program or attend the activities. It's that simple. But if you want to play, you have to follow the rules.

Sorry, double post.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

We should definitely be asking the COs, both ones that are active in their Scouting programs and those that aren't. How is Scouting helping their broader mission? What would they like to see? Ask the youth we don't have ... Why aren't you in Scouting now? What would make you join? Ask the Scouts we currently serve ... What excites you? What keeps you active and involved? How can we do more of that?

I hear you loud and clear. That point of view you criticize is especially ironic because the BSA's summer camp program structure would not exist, with a few exceptions, if not for older Scouts (14-18) hired as instructors and CITs.

The pitches to existing youth organizations are many and varied. Here are just a few excerpts from "Here's Venturing: A Guide to Implementing Venturing in a District or Council," 2003 printing. (Emphasis is mine.) In most cases, Venturing crews are organized from an existing group of youth, usually with leadership already in place. What the Boy Scouts of American can offer to existing youth groups is access to resources. Venturing Resources Available to an Organization Serving Teenage Youth - Access to local and national BSA camping facilities - Local events/activities tailored to teenagers - Expertise and program helps for * Twenty-five outdoor disciplines * One hundred twenty-four meeting plans * Fifteen superactivity suggestions - Thirteen nationally recognized awards for young people * Five Bronze awards * Silver Award * Gold Award * Ranger Award * Quartermaster * Apprentice * Able * Ordinary * Quest - Four nationally recognized awards for tenured adult leaders - Training for all adult leaders, which includes Youth Protection training - Eight-session youth leadership skills training course - Video: Youth officer training and job description - Twenty-seven ethical controversies modules - Instruction on how to conduct an annual planning session - Instruction on how to conduct a reflection - Low-cost liability and accident insurance Selling Venturing to Religious Youth Groups One of the greatest sources of new Venturing crews lies in the religious organizations of America. Most religious organizations already have a high school-age youth group. Many are seeking resources, program material, retreat facilities and structure to help them in their mission. The Venturing program has been tailored to help religious youth groups achieve their aims and purposes by providing leadership training, outdoor and high-adventure activity, program ideas, recognition for the youth, audiovisuals, literature and insurance. Selling Venturing to High School-Age Clubs and Groups Here are some samples of high school-age groups that have partnered with the Boy Scouts of America by forming a Venturing crew. - Young Marines club - Scuba club - Program center for physically handicapped youth - Council camp staff - Local Audubon Society youth group - Members of an Order of the Arrow lodge - Search and rescue organization - Ham radio organization - Skateboarding club(This message has been edited by shortridge)

How do UK and Australian Scouting groups handle the leadership/chartering issue? Are there charters today? Or are leaders today still issued warrants, much as Eamonn describes?

Not a criticism ... just pointing out that YP rules still apply to a SMC.

CNYScouter wrote: I am hoping that working on this one issue may open the door to show these adults what the BSA program can offer them. and I think that if the adults that are running things can see some success using some of the Venturing program they might be willing to slowing start incorporating more and more. There's nothing that says Venturing crews have to use the "BSA program" or even the "Venturing program." DancesWithSpreadsheets hit the nail on the head. If the CO is satisfied, there's really nothing more you can do as a UC except request reassignment to a unit where your services are really needed. The refusal to take YPT does bother me, however. That's such a simple, easy thing to do that no one should have any objection. One direct result of not bothering with any of the "Scouting stuff" during the year that the advisor is gone will be that the units will go under. No paperwork = no recharter = no unit = no BSA insurance. Make sure the stubborn advisor understands that, at least, and then cut your losses and skeedaddle. Let the DE who helped create this situation deal with it.

I'd start by defining what a "100 percent scholarship" is. Does that include the registration fee? Pack dues? Den dues? A uniform (full uni, or just the shirt)? Book? All advancements? Summer camp? Day camp? Outings? Pack picnics? The average pack would quickly find itself broke if it paid for all those things for every Scout that asked. I can't think of any other youth-serving organization that would waive the entire cost of a program simply based on a request, without any supporting details or documentation. That's simply a bad way to do business. There's a reason that local councils have formal applications required for camperships to help Scouts attend summer camp, and it's a good one. Yes, no Scout should be turned away because of finances. But that doesn't mean he and his family can't contribute in other ways. Perhaps the father is a carpenter and can donate his time helping other Cubs design their Pinewood Derby cars, while the mother is a great baker and can bake up a ton of brownies and pies for a bake sale. The same might go for people who are out of work. An accountant might check over the pack's books and make sure the finances are in order and operating efficiently; a mechanic could run a special program in automotive basics. And the Cub can always help with popcorn sales or other fundraisers. There are always creative solutions - bartering goods and services is a method of payment as old as the hills.

Ask what their line of work is. Then ask if they refuse to take training as a teacher / plumber / electrician / secretary / mechanic / computer programmer. How can they do their job without a certain amount of education and training? There's really no good reason for someone to refuse YP training. A monkey with half a brain can sit down at a computer and do it in a matter of minutes.

NJ, I'm not one of those trying to distract by bringing up the tenting/lodging issue. I just think it's critically important to be addressed if the ban is lifted - and as I said, I'm in support of lifting that ban. I'd disagree with you that the issue can be handled on the local level. If that were the case, then why have YP guidelines at all? Why not simply trust the local unit leaders to do the right thing every time? IMHO, there needs to be some sort of national system, rule, whatever, in place. You don't need a 100-page book addressing every possible permutation - you just need a simple rule. But what that should be, I don't know.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Hear, hear. Another thread recently discussed revamping and strengthening the commissioners' service. Imagine what good could come if National put a new emphasis on strengthening CO relationships! Real training and coaching in their roles and responsibilities ... being invited on unit trips and treks ... getting a copy of the council newsletter ... even the small things could wake up some snoozing CORs. Yes, there are some CORs or IHs who personally want a hands-off relationship with their units. They've got bigger fish to fry and more important things to worry about. If that's their choice, don't worry about them. But even if the number of *active* CORs were increased by 20 percent in your district or council, that would be a huge boon to the units and really send shockwaves through the hierarchy. An SE would really have to pay attention then.

So the real question is what is the effect on the number of cases of sexual abuse if the policy of the BSA were to be changed. What has been the effect on GSUSA, or in the UK?