Sentinel947

That's how we get tedious trainings done. Get a trainer (generally me) to conduct the training at a meeting, where those folks typically are anyways.

I like your stages, but I don't think they are always sequential. My troop has been very good at recruiting and retaining new scouts, ever since I joined in 2005. Stage 1, very good. From 2007 till about 2013 the patrol method was basically dead in my Troop. Throughout that time there was very little small group leadership. Stage 2, very poor. We've lost most of our Scouts at that year 2-4 mark. My entire time 2005- till now, my Troop has had pretty good SPL's and Troop Guides, who have been mostly well coached by adult leaders (not always the Scoutmaster). They kept the troop program moving, and had more or less capacity to make their own decisions and lead their fellow youth, depending on the Scoutmaster and where he was in his training and development. Stage 3, ok/decent, to somewhat good. I think this is where ASM's become important. We all have individual strengths. Ideally a Scoutmaster should be a coach and mentor to the boys first. Handling logistics, communication with parents, and a lot of the other aspects of running a troop should be handed off to the Committee and the ASM's. An ASM or two that also have that coach, mentor, teacher mindset can be helpful for when the SM cannot be in more than one place at a time. However, sometimes with a Troop adult leadership, it's a coalition of the willing. If somebody volunteers to be Scoutmaster, but doesn't have strong youth coaching skills, and nobody with better developed skills in that area volunteers, then that's who the Troop gets as Scoutmaster. In my opinion, a Scoutmaster has only a few "core" responsibilities. The rest of the things a troop has a Scoutmaster do are purely optional. (For the Scoutmaster, not for the Troop) Coach the SPL and PLC, on outings, meetings and PLC. Recruit ASM's. Train ASM's Attend Meetings, Outings and PLCs, or arrange for appropriate ASM if he cannot attend. Conduct Scoutmaster's conferences. With a few exceptions, any other function can arguably be passed off to somebody else in the troop. Getting the new scoutmaster to understand this has been a challenge, since the previous Scoutmaster was one of those guys who tried to do everything, till the other ASM's staged an intervention of sorts and the above system was implemented. In short, regardless of who's in what roles, recruiting of suitable adults, delegation and playing to those adults skills are important to running a successful troop. If the Scoutmaster is bogged down in the operational details, he won't have the bandwidth to work with the Scouts the way they should.

There are plenty of us out there fighting the good fight.

My troop was in that rut about 8 years ago. We had a ASM start offering backpacking merit badge. A few of us with loaner gear loaned it to the scouts to go. Now our troop has 3-4 backpacking trips a year. Not all the boys go or want to, but it's been key in keeping older boys engaged in our program.

Youth Protection Training is required for Youth staff at Summer Camp and NYLT. It helps to have more people trained and aware.

I think I can somewhat answer this. Folks who aren't fans of NYLT/Wood Badge feel free to chime in. Full disclosure: I've been to Wood Badge and NYLT. I've staffed NYLT, and I've just signed my life away for another course this summer. I'm sure at some point I'll staff Wood Badge, but right now at my age, I feel like I have much more to offer to NYLT and the youth staff there, vs Wood Badge staff and participants. I love these two programs, and they've helped me help my troop quite a bit, since I went to NYLT in 2009 and Wood Badge in 2015. NYLT and Wood Badge both have great potential to aid the program, but PEOPLE can always mess it up. It's much like church. The program might be solid, but the people who teach it, or go to it, and graduate from it might be less than ideal, and this creates discontent. Basically it's the hypocrite effect. The folks who staff Wood Badge, but then coddle their Scouts, or don't run the Patrol method rightfully cause folks to go "Well, if they did Wood Badge and still don't "get it" then what's the point of going?" I know I've met folks involved with Wood Badge or NYLT who are really pushy, and somewhat snobby about it. Like you aren't a "real scouter" if you haven't been to Wood Badge. That's a common complaint I've read on here. There's sometimes an elitist attitude that comes from some (not all Wood Badgers.) Some of us have our hands full with our units, so quilt tripping folks who are really busy, to take Wood Badge isn't a winning sales strategy. To highlight: My Troop's last Scoutmaster didn't attend Wood Badge till his 3rd year as Scoutmaster. When he took over, it was him, me and 1 other ASM. We had about 80 registered Scouts. If we took off two weekends for Wood Badge, our unit program would have suffered. By the third year in, we'd built up the team, and had a group we could trust to carry things out while the Scoutmaster and I took Wood Badge. We weren't necessary to be at every given event. Then there is the fact that Wood Badge and NYLT are weird to outsiders. There's all this stuff that goes on that outsiders aren't fully aware of and don't know how it fits. Outside of the context of the course, these inside experiences are weird. Both Scouters and Scouts go, "All those ridiculous songs and games, I don't want to spend entire week listening to some blowhards." I've been trying to work with my Scouts who have gone to NYLT on the importance of talking about how it's helped them, and how much fun it was, without it becoming some inside joke between them (and sometimes me.) I think this is something Scouters as a whole need to work on, at a time where more and more folks have no knowledge of scouting, we have to break things down to an easier to digest level, without giving up what makes Scouting, well... Scouting. BSA Training quality varies widely based on who is putting on the training, where, and what resources they have at their disposal. Some folks council's Wood Badge/NYLT are possibly filled with a good old boys and gals club where things are tight and clicky. They make it hard to penetrate and become part of the group, and that turns people off. TLDR: (To long; didn't read) In short, some folks might have sour opinions about Wood Badge and NYLT because their courses in their council might not be good, either due to resources, or more likely because the folks who lead the Wood Badge/NYLT might not be very humble, accommodating, approachable or just straight teaching the material poorly. It's easy to say "Well then you need to get involved" because often the click/Good ole club doesn't allow outsiders in. And yes, sometimes the material in Wood Badge or NYLT isn't well thought and out and written to convey the right meaning, and this is where strong presenters who "Get" Scouting have to improve the course. Otherwise we get graduates from Scouting's main adult leadership program who don't use the Patrol method in their troops. This isn't a problem unique to Wood Badge/NYLT or Scouting. Churches, businesses and any civic group where people gather have these issues. It's easy to say "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater," but that's neglecting that humans are emotional beings, and how we are treated by the messenger does effect how we take in the message. It's the importance of us walking the walk.

"Adult lead, Youth run" Is a confusing phrase, because it's reliant on the listeners interpretation of "Lead." As long as the Wood Badge Instructor teaches it right, it's not a big problem. The way I explain it to newbies, "Adults advise and train youth, youth lead and run the program." In my opinion the role of Adults is contradictory. On one hand, we have total and complete responsibility for safety, and we have a responsibility to be good stewards of the resources entrusted to the troop. On the other hand, the Scouts will not step in and lead unless the adults train them AND provide the space for those youth to grow and be responsible themselves. There can be a point in some troops and scout cultures (Like NYLT) where the bulk of the training of youth is done by other youth, but adults still have an oversight and advisory role to play here. I think almost all of us here envision the same roles for Adults and Youth, but depending on the connotations we add to words, some difference in word choice is used.

Sounds like somebody is afraid for her job. I've never met a girl scout who's girl scout troop was heavily involved in outdoor programming. The girls that were interested in that sort of stuff joined Venturing as soon as possible. Letting girls in the Boy Scouts is a chance to grab some of those girls, who if the Boy Scouts don't allow girls, may drop out of Girl Scouts in late elementary school and never return to Scouting at all before they are eligible to go to Venturing. The type of girls who would be joining boy scouts are not interested in the program that most girl scout troops provide. I don't think Girl Scout Professional leadership has any intention of changing their program, and why should they? The GSUSA has more members than the Boy Scouts. They're clearly meeting the desires of most of their demographic. We'll see if the BSA attempts to become more like the GSUSA, and how that effects the type of program the BSA promotes. Those of us who favor a patrol method type program may end up "off the reservation" much like some of the Troops didn't want to roll along with the "Improved" Scouting Program is the 70s. We'll see.

That'd be my "breaking point."

Same to you! At the end of the day, we care about our Scouts and want to give them the best program possible. I know you do, because you won't spend spare time on a scouting forum. Regardless of whether you stay or go in the next few years, your service to youth stands out when fewer and fewer are willing to step up. Hopefully you'll find another worthy cause or ministry to give your talent to.

Fishing and Shooting outing Webelos woods open house trip Backpacking Cold weather/ILST training Christmas Party/Video Game lock in

Why do you think it's peripherial? We needed female ypt, female leaders, the girls would be on the lake, in merit badges or at the range with the boys. Separate bathrooms and sleeping accommodations had to be arranged. I don't expect summer camp or camporees to change much besides the involvement of more females. If the BSA mandates changes to the requirements, or requires co-ed troops, sure. Will the influx of untrained leaders cause changes? Maybe, not in my Troop. Not yet. Will the membership losses accelerate? Maybe. Probably. Has the BSA been slowly circling the drain for decades? Yes. Will girls fix that? No. Giving youth (male or female) an exciting outdoor program and training their leaders to provide it will. If you've hit your breaking point, I won't judge you. I won't talk smack about you or call you a "conditional scouter." We all have our lifespans in this program, we all have our non- negotiables. I just haven't hit mine yet.

Sure. Our local camps have had co-ed staff for years, female venturers as participants, and foreign visiting Scout troops that were also co-ed. It's been that way almost the entire time I've been in Boy Scouting (2005). So I'm not in on the sky is falling. Maybe I just don't know what I missed previously. Maybe I'm too shortsighted because my Troop has been on a steady upward swing since 2011. I'm less concerned about the attendance of girls at camp. I'm more concerned about shortsighted program changes National might make that will continue to kill the patrol method. I don't think the fact that girls can be Boy Scouts (what a dumb phrase) will effect the week to week program we run in our troop. It's not girls that have ruined or will ruin Boy Scouting, it's weak leadership from some pros, sex abuse, declining demographics, and a safety/parenting culture that strangles adventure.

I agree to a point. If your troop is Mormon (forgive me, I forget everyones's affiliations here.) My troop is still a space for boys. It's not changing just because girls are allowed in separate troops in 2019. We have no interested girls and will not be starting a girls troop. It's BAU for us.

Makes no sense. Which unit is logging and tracking parents at 72 hours in various events? One trip as the rule seems to clearly state makes more sense.

I'm sure when National forced Hillcourt off the reservation they had some sort of similar pejorative for folks who weren't happy with the change. I'm somebody who's been moderately ok with the change National made. But I'm not how they've treated long time scouters, nor how they communicated on the issue. I think it was a huge lost opportunity for National to build trust.

I tell my parents the same thing.

I've seen this too. And I strive as someone who has been to WB and is a trainer, to not patronize the folks I train, and to include their experience in the training. Most of my training are more of a group conversation and hands on skills vs a lecture, but I've sat in alot of training that is not that way.

I understand. Much depends on the Scout and what his reasons are for not telling his parents.

The DE/SE is going to conduct a social work child protection investigation?

And what Scouting can be. We all know there are plenty of adult run, advancement mill, webelos 3 troops out there. As we also know, this forum is full of folks who run troops that as much as possible within BSA rules, run troops the way BP and GBB would expect us to. This is even more important as girls join, and the eventual changes this will cause.

In my district we do contact the references. We ask them to write a letter. We give them a reasonable amount of time to respond, and if they don't we move on and conduct the Eagle Board.

For what it's worth, every Catholic parish that I attend regularly don't use the possessive 's in the name. So I'm not sure the Catholics would disagree.

There's a lot of Christian Church's that would and will object to that.

Certainly some LDS Scouters and Scouts will continue, just not all of them.