Sentinel947

Wow. I don't trust Buzzfeed much, but if this is true. That being said, I honestly think it's fake. The grammar and word choice seem very off for a Corporate executive, even in an informal email. Buzzfeed is clickbait journalism. It was "fake news" before there was fake news. If this is true, it's greatly discouraging. I've edited this post so there are less "quotes from BSA members" to be put in a "BSA members aghast at CSE email."

If you've tried those things, then you are facing the reality that the parents understand, and do not care. I'm not sure there is a solution to that.

Teach the parents about the importance of the patrol method and how it benefits their boys. Alternatively, quit if you don't want to run a program like that. I know if my troop becomes family camping I'm out.

I think I got it, but deleted it, as I get alot of Scouting related emails and I don't read ones I don't have to read.

I appreciate the feedback Turtle. The Moderator team is having a conversation about this at the moment, and once we build a little consensus regarding it, we'll make a thread to get feedback.

Thread got closed more for being totally unrelated to the original topic. Not the content of the totally off topic posts.

Yea, I'd have a problem with that too. As far as I know my council is pretty good about keeping fees for training low or not at all.

I don't think there is a problem with charging for the costs associated with a training. Materials, lunch, if those things are necessary. The training events I put on for my council and district I do not charge, but materials are also very light, and I don't provide lunch. I'd rather build in time for folks to go buy lunch or eat a packed one. If my District or Council told me I had to make money on training I put on, I'd tell them they'd need to find somebody else. There's enough costs to being a volunteer, and cost can be a real difficulty in getting people to attend training.

Yea our method is similar. Figured that's what your troop would be doing!

Are you able to do this without retesting in SM Conferences or BOR? If so, what does that procedure look like? I think some troops that struggle with scouts retaining skills proficiency could learn from that.

You're definitely not alone in that sentiment. My Troop is about to have it's 4th Scoutmaster since I joined in 2005. None were Eagles. 3/4 Took Wood Badge at some point during their tenure, but only one (the most recent) had Wood Badge before he became SM. All are exceptional, dedicated men. We've had a good handful of ASMs or Committee members (myself included) that earned Eagle, and it's been pretty good for the most part but I think each of them who were/are great in their roles would have been regardless of whether or not they were Eagles. I think you and I share the same opinion. Could Wood Badge or Eagle be helpful to being a good Scouter? Yea, it could be. Is it a guarantee somebody will be a good Scouter? No, it's not. Do you have to be an Eagle or go to Wood Badge to be a good Scouter? No. Definitely not.

I don't know where this idea came from (probably the BSA.) But it does harm to people and to the program. Eagle Scout is not some silver bullet for teenagers. If your grades suck, Eagle Scout won't get you into college. If you bomb your interview, Eagle Scout will not get you the job. As a corporate recruiter myself, I don't look for Eagle Scouts, I look for candidates who are qualified to do the job, and if they happen to be Eagle Scouts, then we chat about that after the serious stuff is out of the way. Eagle Scout is valuable not because it will cause other people to think better of the Eagle Scout, but because of the personal journey of growth being in a Troop for 2-6 years can have. Can it help you in an interview or college admissions? Possibly, but you have to be qualified already. Just like "Go to college so you can get a good job" sets young people up to have a useless degree, tons of debt, disappointment and a minimum wage job. "Eagle will get you places in life" means parents will help their sons get Eagle at any cost, and the cost is what we actually want our Scouts to learn: life skills, leadership, teamwork, ethical decisionmaking, love of country, and respect for creation. It too will lead to disappointment, when the young man realizes he spent all that time for something that isn't the promised "Cheat code." I wonder if Gary is an Eagle Scout and what benefits he perceives he's received by earning it.

Yea, sorry for the late response Flagg. Missed your original post.

The mediocrity was astounding. The last year I volunteered, I had around 25 Scouts. I think 4 of them completed the badge. There was prework, req 5. Communications requires them to come up with some presentations or speeches for requirements 3 and 6. that they probably needed to complete outside of class time. Those were the requirements the Scouts did not complete. Since there were so few presentations they even had time in the class to work on them, but again, 4 of 25. The few that did give speeches and the develop and teach a skill req did wonderful stuff. However, I left that final session vowing to never "teach" merit badges at one of those events again. So far I haven't broken it. I did teach Rifle Shooting merit badge when I worked at the local scout camp. I had something close to a 95% pass rate. None of the Scouts who got incomplete badges had it because they couldn't shoot, but because they would skip a day. I'd let them know they could come down during open shoot and finish whatever they missed, but they almost never took me up on it. Only one who did was a boy who left camp because he was sick. Something about leading horses to water right?

Our Troop does not offer Merit Badges as part of the troop meeting. We have tried it, it is boring and a logistics problem. (What do the Scouts who already have the badge do?) Scouts, buddies, or patrols can work on a badge during our Troop Meeting if they'd like, or schedule time before the meeting to meet with the MBC. Warning rant ahead: Many of our Scouts do the local merit badge college. I no longer counsel merit badges at merit badge colleges, because frankly, the pass rates for the badge I counseled (Communications) was abysmal, and I have more entertaining things to do on three Saturday mornings than having scouts sit in my merit badge class and come out with partials because they don't do the prework or prepare the presentations they need for the badge. Badges should be a individual or small group thing. Rant over. Some badges and counselors do well in the Merit badge college format, but I finding it lacking vs a buddy pair of scouts working with a counselor.

Newer cars will also have an Oil life tracker that the owner should reset after changing (or having their oil changed.) Now, how trustworthy that is depends on how much you trust vehicular computers...

Besides, let's be honest, camp food often is "situationally good" After a cold night of sleeping in the backcountry, a ziplock bag egg is pretty good. In my house? Heck no. I want an omelet with veggies and meat, preferably sausage. We also have to understand that different programs have different strengths and weaknesses and that does have an impact on Scouts and what skills they retain. A pair of Eagles across the country's inability to cook on a TV show has no bearing on my experiences as a Scout or the value I place on my Eagle.

One jump we are making is assuming that reporting the YPT violation automatically means everybody will be aware of it. I don't think that naturally follows. 1. Remind Scouter about YPT rules and how he violated privacy of youth. Remind leader that YPT also protects adults and our reputations as much as it protects Kids from abuse. 2. Report YPT violation to DE and CO. Clearly explain situation. This doesn't necessarily mean the volunteer will be removed from Scouting, it's a fairly innocent mistake as far as we know. I know I've physically relocated my tent at night to get away from snorezillas. I bring earplugs on every trip, but some snorers can be very loud. 3. Keep an eye on this leader in the future, (and really lets be honest, we shouldn't be overly trusting in general.) If this was my unit, I'd report it. I fully recognize that there can be some reputation risk to the leader, but I think that can be minimized as long as the SM, CC, COR and DE keep information on a need to know basis.

I call it the "unknown entity" factor. Professionally I work as a Recruiter. My job is to find employees for my clients. Some jobs have age requirements. The current positions I'm looking for are entry level sales jobs that require the candidate to be 18 or older. But even in the case a of a grocery store or fast food joint, a 15 year old comes with hassles. Some of this applies to folks under 18 in general. They cannot drive themselves. Unless they can walk or take the bus, their attendance is totally on their family to help them get to work. They are in school so that limits much of their availability. There may be equipment they cannot use due to labor laws. Is a 15 year old allowed to climb a 12 foot ladder? Speaking of labor laws, a younger employee requires more breaks than somebody over 18. While I personally don't care... some managers do. Some managers don't want to think about having to handle some employees differently than most of their employees. Lack of employment history. Why would a manager hire somebody with no work history if they have candidates with a proven track record of holding down a job? Doesn't mean it's always right, but it's a fairly solid rule of thumb. But, there is a way around this experience problem: The first being "under the table" jobs like Stosh described. There's nothing wrong with dog sitting, baby sitting, house sitting, watering plants for neighbors on vacation, mowing lawns, shoveling snow, helping a neighbor spread mulch, paper routes, pulling weeds. Your neighbors know you, so that helps you beat the "unknown entity" factor. Networking. You know many people, through your friends, through your parents and family. If you can get an interview with a manager at a grocery store, and you wow them with your politeness, your can do em attitude and your maturity, then you can get a job without work experience. Those people you know might be able to help you get that interview. As you get older, networking because an even stronger tool.

He's making an off-topic thread. I'm actually kind of curious what kind of thread this could be.

Tough decision. My disclaimer is I'm not a parent, that being said, Growing up (which wasn't that long ago.) my parents go to was to reduce social time with friends or screen time. Like @Col. Flagg describes. Sound just like my parents! School was number one, but sports, band and Scouts was part of keeping me a well rounded individual and healthy. There were specific activities they might have held me out of if I had exams or something coming up, but never a blanket, you cannot do Sports or Scouts due to grades. Having your kid go from school, straight home and just dinner, chores and studying is going to mentally crush him. He may be over committed in to many activities, and paring those back (even if you and he chooses Scouts) might be the right decision. It's a tough decision.

I'm glad you brought up that post. It actually demonstrates exactly what I'm talking about. Assuming that a troop that has a large number of adults registered is not a youth lead troop is not being charitable. I could definitely call out more people than @RememberSchiff for acting like the way their troop does things is the only way to do things. It may true in RememberSchiff's Troop, but that doesn't make it universally true, as @Col. Flaggs troop may demonstrate. (Not that'd I'd know since I have never visited your Troop!) We all take pride in the service we provide to our Scouts and scout families and the time and effort we've put into Scouting and it definitely hurts if somebody says we're doing things wrong, or have bad intentions or any other ways of putting down other Scouters efforts or units. I'm not holding anybody to that standard. It's an aspiration I'd like to see here, but I'm not going to enforce it via moderation, because frankly, I don't care enough and I don't have the time. I do think it would cut down on arguments people are having. If I've offended you by using your post as an example, I'd be happy to take it out, but I think my broader point stands regardless. I tagged you in it because I figured there was no way around it since I was referencing your post. It would either be implied and look passive aggressive, or I can confront the reality of it and still look passive aggressive. If I just made a general post and didn't reference something specific I think most folks would be like "What the heck is he talking about?"

Aye all, There's a principle I think we're missing here, the principle of charity. The less used definition of charity is: "kindness and tolerance in judging others." Taking @David CO's comment: If I'm being charitable, I try to read his comment with the best intentions possible. He isn't saying, "I want every parent to be eligible, from drug runners to bank robbers," vs He's saying "Boys talk, so it's not a great idea for the information of 'Who's eligible vs who's not" to go further than the CO Rep, IH head, CC, and SM. " That information spreading can be embarrassing for a family and that Scout. The other boys may treat that scout differently because something his parents did. I know in my troop whatever goes on in the Committee is basically an open secret to the boys. Case in point or SM transition. Scoutmaster announced to the Committee in June he was stepping down in 2018, and was waiting till December to tell the Scouts. Probably 2/3rds of them already knew, because some folk(s) on the committee cannot keep their mouth shut. That's not anything close to the seriousness of loose lips talking about so and so's record. Not to call out @Col. Flagg specifically. It's been something I've been thinking about on the forum for a while, and I know I've done it to folks in the past and we all see it quite a bit here. I think us not trying our best to be charitable with other people's posts causes some needless arguments that we can avoid by assuming the best intentions in our fellow Scouters. I know I fail to meet that standard often, but that's honestly something I'm striving for if for no other reason than to treat people better and keep my blood pressure down.

Pocket Rockets are a pretty jet engine like stove, not the worst of them though... Alcohol stoves are amazing for lightweight backpacking. If your troop decides to forgo the warnings from the BSA, just be mindful of: During the day you cannot see the flame. Because it makes almost no noise the boys may not realize its burning. if they don't properly pack the fuel bottle it will leak, and it will make a smelly, wet mess. If the stove gets knocked over while in use the fuel becomes a stream of fire. Some alcohol stove set ups can cause burn marks on the ground or picnic tables. So be careful where your Scouts use them. There is the temptation to misuse the fuel, "Watch this fireball I can make!" Some alcohol stove fuels can be hazardous if you are breathing in the fumes. In my opinion Scouts can be properly trained to use Alcohol stoves, but there are some potential issues that need to be worked around compared to canisters. Canisters are so easy and somewhat idiot proof, my Troop just sticks to them and I don't argue because hey we're getting them out backpacking! All in all I love my alcohol stove. I use the Caldera Cone by Trail Designs. I use alcohol stoves on practically all of my non Scouting trips. It's more weight efficient, cost efficient and I don't have left over fuel canisters that have to be recycled. I can pick up 32 oz of paint thinner from the local hardware store for like $7. $7 maybe gets me 12 oz of canister fuel.

I use Alcohol Stoves exclusively for my non Scouting trips. Mostly because fuel is cheaper. At Philmont, I do not recommend Alcohol Stoves. They lack efficiency when cooking for large groups, and at altitude. If your Scouts cook is small groups on troop backpacking trips alcohol stoves can be effective, but my Troop decided that discouraged means we won't use them.