SemperParatus

It's sort of like sitting on a front porch at a family reunion. People come and go all the time, some stop to talk for hours, some make only a passing comment as they head in for coldcuts, some just sit and listen, sometimes we argue about stuff that happened years ago, Crazy Uncle Frank usually takes center stage for awhile with some bombastic story, we know who to avoid and who we get along with best, we know what topics can set each other off, we share stories, laughs and opinions. We are family. A scouting family. Thanks Fuzzy.

I do not think there is any such thing as a 'paper eagle' (boy, do I detest that term), other than in the imaginations of adults that choose to look for a way to belittle a boy's accomplishment. A system is in place (and has been for nearly a century) to ensure that the scout's troop, district, council and national have determined that the Eagle rank requirements have been satisfied. If there is a system failure than that is a failure of the adults, and to pin a kid with a label of 'paper eagle' is a disservice to that boy's work and commitment. Some boys will certainly choose different routes (project difficulty, merit badge numbers and methods, POR levels) to Eagle, but as long as the technical requirements are satisfied, all routes are valid. There is no requirement of troop service after earning the rank. A boy is free to stop scouting anytime they want for any reason.

Great to hear how scouting has been passed on in your family. Let us know how the BOR goes. Congrats in advance.

Welcome to the forum. Sounds like you have plenty to share.

"I have never been lost, but I will admit to being confused for several weeks." ~Daniel Boone Actually, ol' Dan'l was born in Pennsylvania. He just moved to Kentucky because the people there are just so friendly Speakin' of grinnin'...time for me to 'grin me a bar'.

Welcome to the forum. Ditto to what madkins said. I think your post says it all "that the parents want to move them up". Has anybody asked the boys what they want to do? Based on my experience, most boys really enjoy their last year of cub scouts and being the 'big guys'. Moving early is sometimes a symptom of problems within the pack (either the pack is awful or the parents looking to get out are no longer wanted because of personal issues). You may want to speak with the Pack's leadership to determine what is going on here. I would suspect that the pack is either very sorry to see them leave early (and maybe will make efforts to keep them around)or very glad (in which case, you would want to understand what you may be in for).

Ivory read the posts (thank goodness they weren't trunkated) and am especially interested in trumpeting the merits of elephant stew. Add a loaf of tuskani bread on the side and you have a feast. Anyone else herd of such a thing? I am all ears.

That great Kentuckian, Davy Crockett, must be rolling over in his grave

'body bags and funeral supplies'... Excuse me but this is completely lacking in respect for those scouters that died and their families. I can only pray that one of those family members does not come across this posting, which will forever have your name next to it, Fred. There is no humor here. There is no satire. Only ugliness. Fred, I believe it is a shame that you posted this to try and make a point about what 'BSA bashers' are saying. Let the bashers say what they will...those that desire to uphold the 'traditional values' of scouting are not serving those values by repeating their filth. While I appreciate your passing on noteworthy articles about scouting, this one was better left behind.

Is there a purpose to posting such garbage?

Maybe we can just have the entire troop committee join this forum and hash it out on-line. That would be fun Welcome guys and gals.

Welcome...how about just using Excel.

First, a SM/ASM should not be in a BOR...that was wrong and is against BSA advancement policies. Attendance at church is not required by scouting. I believe your ASM was attempting to promote a discussion of the 12th point of the Scout Law, but screwed it up. He either doesn't understand the BSA's policies on religious observance, has chosen to ignore them or is not too bright. I hope your son explained his bible study classes and VBS volunteership. What can you do about it? Go to your Committee Chair and share your concerns, as well as the BSA policy that SM/ASM are not committee members eligible to sit on a BOR.

What Eamonn said. Especially since this is his first BOR, I would suggest to the Advancement Chair that he may want to make sure that the Board consists of the most patient and understanding of adults. Those with an ability to possibly relate to this boy and keep things at a level he can understand and respond to. I would expect from your description that the BOR may take a little longer, as the Board attempts to draw out answers. In any event, they need to keep their questions and discussions as simple as possible. Perhaps the parents of the boy can offer some insight to you and the board members on the best method to carry on a conversation with him, surely they should have some expereince in what works. I think everyone (you, CC, adult leaders, BOR members) should have an understanding of what the disability is beforehand so that there is a greater understanding of what the boy has to deal with in his daily living. Should be no problem with going for alternative requirements at a later time.

Boy do I have me a word to stump folks at hangman now.(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

Trev, Good story...like a ghost from scouting past. I was that guy once. I know what he was feeling and I am sure his heart skipped a beat when he walked in and saw 'his troop' in action.

Jon, Way to stay active and share your interests. You are certainly welcome at this campfire. In fact, you can have my seat...I have to visit a tree.

Let me be the first to shake your old hand and welcome you back to America's (ney, the world's) greatest youth program.

Howdeee!!! You can have a seat next to me at the fire.

That helps. Your troop policy clearly ties no-alcohol use to continued rank advancement. The scout and parent have agreed to these stipulations and are now trying to argue the point, when they should be taking a hard look at themselves in the mirror.

If you don't mind, please share a copy of the alcohol-free pledge agreement that each boy must sign when he joins your unit.

First...get more help. Specifically, the Committee Chair should solicit volunteers and appoint someone to handle the Membership/Re-charter responsibilities and someone else to serve as the Popcorn Kernel. As CMs and DLs, you have enough on your plate already to be handling these support functions too. Your Unit Commssioner would be happy to explain the re-charter process to the committee. While your at it, recruit teams with parent leaders to put together the major programming events (B&G, PWD) as well. As CM/ACM, you will certainly be a part of the programming teams, but share the load and give others the opportunity to let their talents for organization, promotion, etc. shine.

I keep thinking about Rafeal Palmeiro. He got caught and his candidacy for Cooperstown is in serious jeopardy. Yet, Bonds, McGwire and Sosa will likely be standing on those steps five years from now. They were just as juiced as Raffy, maybe even more so, but were just fortunate that they could 'retire' sooner or not get tapped for random testing. The guilt is the same, yet some go on for accolades while others are thrown in the dumpster of life. Do you think boy scouts have ever drank before...absolutely. I would suspect there have been many an Eagle scout that have had a beer. The only difference is that their indescretion may not have been known, and so they discover that keeping that part of their life a secret is a good thing (...which is a bad thing). Being known that this boy consumes alcohol (incredously condoned by his parents), it makes it very easy for troop leadership to go down the road of making an example of him. But, this is a private matter and so no one (other scouts) should know about the issue. So, we are left with how to help this boy. The first issue, I suppose, is does he even need help? His parents don't see a problem here (still incredulous), so why should an adult scout leader? Well, obviously there is a problem (bad parenting), but that can't be controlled. I would be very cautious in holding up Eagle advancment. At what point would you consider that the boy has corrected his ways? A signed statement from that he hasn't drank a beer in the past 6 months? 12 months? Corrobating evidence from the 'small community' or his 'parents' that he hasn't drank? Or, is he now forever tainted and can never make amends for his past behavior? When you start heading down the holding up advancment path, make sure you know where you are going and where the exit signs are posted beforehand, otherwise both you and him can get really lost. If I were in your shoes, I would probably sit down with the boy and his parents for a nice long chat. Do it out of genuine concern for the boy, rather than a sense of upholding the sanctity of the Eagle badge. Share your concerns with them about how underage drinking is against the law and therefore, contradicts the ideals of the Scout Promise and Law. How those ideals are intended to be lived, rather than just met at scout outings. How, we should strive to follow them as best we can so that we can better ourselves and be a good example for others. Listen to the parents and the boy, but have them try to explain to you how this is not counter to what being a boy scout is about. Good luck.

The boy has been punished for his actions. Why would anyone one feel the need to continue to punish him. No...now is the time to help him. Time for his troop adults to step up, rather than take the easy road of heaping more punishments on him.

Welcome to the forums and back into scouting.