SemperParatus

Welcome to the forum. Sorry that our first talk couldn't be about a happier topic. Actually, as depressing as it may sound, your numbers and percentages seem pretty typical to me for a cub scout pack. But, you don't want to be just another 'typical' pack, do you? I have found that the offer to volunteer and acceptance rate is much higher when you set the stage for success. Creating a fun and exciting atmosphere in your pack, led by your unbridled enthusiasm to lead the development of a truly engaging program, is the first step. If others see you having a blast, then they will be more receptive to the idea of helping, thinking it may actually be something they could have fun with as well. On the otherhand, if you seem bedraggled, hurried and beaten down, then you can pretty much forget about getting anyone to join you in that endeavor. With a positive, can-do attitude infused in your pack's leadership culture, the next step is to form teams for many of the large pack events (PWD, B&G, Crossover, Party, etc.) Appoint your most trusted and team-oriented adult leaders to head these teams and empower them to recruit their own team members from each of the different ranks/dens. Each den leader should be prepared to inform and motivate different parents in their den to be an active participant on a team. Using a team approach, recruiting volunteers becomes everyone's opportunity (and no longer just yours alone). Your job then becomes one of motivation and quality control over events. Stay informed and gently redirect, as needed, while supporting creativity by giving each team as much freedom as possible. It sounds like you have a small core of folks you can trust to help you implement an environment more conducive to getting people involved. Good luck in scouting...it does get better (or maybe you just get numb to it)

Does anyone know CPR round here? I've always tried to transcend dental medication.

Please don't eschew my posts. Whether they are large in-size-or small, I would hope some may extract some wisdom to fill cavities in their knowledge. Although, at times the impact of my words puts me in a sticky situation, the root cause of my fascination with this forum is to crown scouting's glory and brace it from the attacks of one or-al. Trev, trust all is well at the ranch and hope that, man, da bulls are running strong.

Nick, Was that the gargling sound I love-or-is that just the sound of someone scoping out the wrong forum? I can tell you are not enameled by my posts.(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

kenk...great answer!

Nothing bad can come out of keeping the CO 'in the loop'. Your CC needs to learn the value of being a team, worry less about control, and understand that the COR can dispatch him faster than you can say 'Baden Powell wears starched knickers".

Thanks, 'mon. firecrafter, Sounds like 2 heads (COR and SM) of the three-headed beast are at least on the same page. Your CC needs to understand that the COR can pretty-much call the shots when it comes to adult leadership selections. The UC is basically a bystander in this situation, so it sounds like he is doing his job. Although, trying to keep the COR out of the situation does not sound like a good move on his part.

Maybe Derek will volunteer to place the apple on his head

I wouldn't be so quick to brush this aside as an illegal activity. If win - that's a lot of silver. Ifloss - maybe you can at least get a plack for participating instead of being crest fallen.

I've been trying to get a grip on myself before responding, or maybe hold my tongue altogether. Before sinking my teeth into this one, I would need more filling. I mean for a den-sure it may work, but an entire pack? - that may be biting off more than you can chew.

Very strange for a 17 year and 10 month boy to join boy scouts for the first time. Is someone talking to this ASM and scout to understand what is going on? After two smoking incidents, the SM needs to be on this boy about BSA rules. If I were SM, I would simply tell the scout that one more smoking incident is strike three, you're out. Not knowing what are all of the issues with the ASM, but if he is causing that many problems, then the CC/COR should remove him from adult leadership.

Welcome to the roundtable that never sleeps.

EIKY'mon~ I like the 2-month trial idea. Have you ever had to pull the plug on someone? If so, is that a TC or SM decision? ~Semper dude

I would probably let them 'join back up' assuming there were no detrimental issues when he parted years ago. If he has been out of it for a couple of years, and his 18th birthday is a couple of months away and a project is still to be planned and completed, the chance of him 'Eagling' is pretty darn remote. If I were him, I would not plan on many scouts helping with a project - boys are very good at knowing what is really going on, and there may be a sudden onslaught of their own basketball games to attend. Its a shame, but I think mom is setting this boy up for failure which she will quickly blame on others...maybe you can avoid all of that by simply asking her why she would want to put him through such an ordeal.

IMO, until the boy apologizes to the old counselor for forging his/her name, he really hasn't come to terms with his transgression. Sure, he can express 'remorse' to the SM for what he did (probably, moreso for getting caught), but an apology to the old counselor for 'stealing' his name would go a long way in my book towards making amends and demonstrating maturity. That is something he needs to do on his own, rather then being told. Happy birthday!

The CM is one of the homeschoolers...I would just ask him straight-up why there is a need for a second pack meeting each month that is primarily for the HS crowd, and how that could not possibly cause concern for the non-HS group. I would strongly suggest to him that that quasi-pack meeting be cancelled immediately if he is serious about trying to keep this pack from splitting up. To me, that is the first step that needs to be taken.

A couple years ago, we had a boy and his mother come to a meeting with the intent to join our troop. They were in the process of leaving another troop whose SM is a good friend of mine. He had been telling me about recurring problems he had been having with the scout and the mother (very disruptive, unscoutlike behavior, mother screaming at leaders in public, etc.) The boy came to our troop meeting with spiked-up goth hair, make-up, chains, etc. - I suppose he was trying to make a good first impression. I politely suggested to the mother that they should strongly consider other troops, and dropped the name of my SM friend telling her how our troops are very similar. She got the hint and moved on down the road. As far as a 'deathbed eagle', I would probably look to have a lengthy discussion with him beforehand to understand the situation and his motivations. With that understanding, a decision could be made in the best interests of the troop and the scout. I would not be adverse to saying 'no' in certain instances where the boy (or his parents) are just looking for a super-accelerated eagle rank and a quick bye-bye. Since our unit's inception slightly over 4 years ago, our unit has had a policy that guarantees a spot only for crossovers from our affiliated pack and congregants of the CO church. The TC put this policy in place to avoid explosive growth that could potentially outstrip resources (our troop now has approximately 55 scouts, but could easily have grown to over a 100 in 3 years based on the number of interested phone calls I received from ). This policy has allowed us to be somewhat selective in taking in boys that do not necessarily meet the affiliate pack/CO member criteria.

http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/supreme_court/justices/nopriorexp.html

Yes.

scoutmom5, It sounds like you have a crew of some difficult adults, each with their own ideas and with the misunderstanding (fueled by past experience) that they can impose their own plans on the troop. It is no wonder both you and your husband are feeling frustrated. Here is what I would do if I were in your shoes: 1. As SM, meet with the CC for a long meeting to hash out the future direction of the troop. The discussion shouldn't be about what trips are planned for the next couple months, but rather, the vision and culture of the troop and the long range plan of where the troop is expected to grow (in terms of skills, character, opportunities, etc) over the next several years. The SM and CC need to be on the same page in virtually all matters with respect to the troop. The SM must have complete confidence that the CC will support him in his efforts to develop and implement the overall troop program that will support opportunities for leadership, advancement, character growth, and fun. The CC must have complete confidence in the SM and his staff to do what is right by the boys by providing the scouting program promised. The CC must be prepared to reign in the 'over enthusiasm' of the adults to allow the boys to succeed on their own (and make mistakes as well), essentially to run interference for the SM especially during the transition period. If your husband and the CC cannot get on the same page on this issue, then your frustration will continue to grow. 2. Training. It sounds like all of the adults should take advantage of the training opportunities available to gain a greater understanding of how a troop should function. Even if they have had training before, a refresher is in order. Attend the training as a group, so everyone can hear the information at the same time and then discuss its application to your unit soon thereafter. 3. Develop a relationship with the CM and CC of the pack. Mesh your calendars now to ensure that conflicts do not exist. Look for ways to support each other through joint activities (trips, a scouting expo for your CO church, etc.), utilization of trained den chiefs, service of scouts at cub events (PWD, B&G). Troop recruitment of cubs should not be the tail that wags the dog, but rather an integral part of the overall scouting program offered by your CO. Its not about absolutely having to do that one joint event together or else, but rather, creating a scouting atmosphere where cubbies see boy scouts in action frequently and the boy scouts developing a sense of caring for younger scouts and sharing what scouting means to them. 4. Throughout the transition, keep it professional and friendly with the adults. Screaming and yelling should never be tolerated. The SM and CC must make that abundantly clear. If emotions show a sign of beginning to run hot, then people have to be told to either conduct themselves in a scoutlike-manner or leave the meeting. 5. As SM, do not be strident with the attitude that 'I am going to fix all of the problems you adults have created and make this a boy-run troop now'. This will be a long process (plan on a year, provided all the stars align in the right direction) and will surely tax your patience, dedication, compassion, and understanding. There will come times when it will be frustrating (esp with adults) to the point of wanting to quit, but there will also come times (esp with the boys) when things click and all the effort seems well worth it. Best of luck to you, your husband and especially, your son.(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

"Our District Golf outing has been held at the Country Club, of which I and the Doctor who has sponsored the event are the only members." That is quite an exclusive club

It is very hard to say that $18K is too much without more information. For all we know, most of the money could be set aside in scout accounts, representing large balances accumulated by folks planning an extended overseas or high adventure trip. Alternatively, it could be that there are no scout accounts and this is just free and clear troop money. Given that the cash balance was $8K and is now $18K after the fundraiser is an indication that money has being spent on scouts and troop needs in the past (assuming that this fundraiser has been as successful in past years). In a troop, cash balances can very greatly depending on the timing of fundraisers, expenditures and trips. Also, we have no idea as to troop size. A troop with 10 scouts needs less total money to operate than a troop with 100 scouts. An active troop of 100 scouts can easily go through $10K in a year for registrations, awards, supplies, equipment, etc., not counting trip expenses.

Harvard University (a non-profit) has a $25 billion endowment fund. (This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

"I would expect that a lot of families would vote with their feet and find another troop. Or just drop scouting altogether." I would hope that, instead, a lot of families would participate on the troop committee and work to enact changes in those areas that are of the most concern, including developing fundraising programs that create positive, rather than negative, feelings. Of course, other than extreme optimists, hope and expectations rarely coincide. (Sorry for the rant - spoken from a newly minted Committee Chair - I miss 'my boys' already). To some extent, I wonder if we are only talking a bad choice of semantics on the part of troop leadership. Alternative 1 - Troop needs to raise $100 per boy. Establishes a fundraiser, calling it mandatory. To the extent you do not reach the $100 'quota' you must make up the difference with a check or cash. Somebody may fundraise $5 and write a check for $95. If someone does not participate in the mandatory fundraiser, is there any penalty other than paying the difference in cash? Alternative 2 - Troop needs to raise $100 per boy. Sets dues at $100 and each boy has the choice of raising this money through fundraising and/or direct checks/cash. A boy fundraises $5 and the family pays the rest with a check. Same result (albeit a more palatable spin because there is no perceived mandatory coercion). Assuming the only penalty for nonparticipation is payment of the shortfall, other than semantics, is there really that much of a difference?

Given that the error was discovered after he was elected SPL and assuming it was not an intentional act of deception on anyone's part, I do not think it would be appropriate to deny him the SPL position. As SPL, the POR requirement for Star should be satisfied in the near future. I guess the bigger question is how both the SM and BOR overlooked the lack of POR in granting rank in the first place.(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)