SeattlePioneer

This thread resembles the Wood Badge course I took. No one is going to give you "the" answer. You and your Wood Badge patrol members have to put your heads together and reason out what the correct answers might be. The people contributing to this thread have been my "patrol" members, and the bottom line for me is no evidence of anything sinister about Wood Badge ---then or now. Just people trying to do their best to put on a good course and trying to learn from that course.

I've always thought that the beading ceremony was one of the most effective means to sell the Woodbadge program. Perhaps you could be a part of the beading ceremonies and offer to be of help to people present who might be interested in Wood Badge. Eagle Scout ceremonies serve a similar purpose.

Nice theory, but I can assure you that neither district chairs nor CORs sit on the Board of Directors of the Chief Seattle Council. You can check out the link to the Board of Directors if you like. It's true that there is a purely nominal election of district officers and council officers once/year, but that takes about five minutes maximum and is a purely symbolic election. There are a variety of opportunties for grass roots influence in Scout organizations, but electing officers is the least of that power as a practical matter. While skeptic is, well, SKEPTICAL about grass roots influence, I suggest that having the past CEO of Boeing, Phil Condit on your board, or the Attorney General of Washington State, is not a formula for a good 'ol boys club. I'm sure people like that could eat the usual Council Executive for breakfast if they thought they needed to do so.

Hello Doc, Few if any District Chairs serve on our council executive board: http://www.seattlebsa.org/Main-Website-Content/Chief-Seattle-Council-Board-of-Directors The Council Commissioner is there. Our VP for Membership was a DC before taking that post, and she is now on the board. But quitwe a few people are movers and shakers in the community, such as Phil Condit, former Boeing CEO and Rob McKenna, Washington State Attorney General and likely Republican Gubernatorial nominee. I suspect most of those movers and shakers have a significant Scouting hisory as youth and quite possibly as adult leaders, but a good many are probably there primarily for their influence in the community. That's what I see in our council, anyway. Yours may well be different, just as you say.

My bias is to put more emphasis on celebrating the achievement of the 1st Class Rank Rather than Eagle, which I view as being over promoted. I would like to see a significant ceremony when boys achieve First Class. An example of what part of that might sound like is at: http://www.boyscouttrail.com/content/ceremony/ceremony-1256.asp Do our Boy Scout leaders here think their recognition ceremonies for 1st Class could stand improvement, and if so in what ways?

> You have done a good job I'm sure of identifying objections to taking Wood Badge. You will usually find barriers and objections to doing most worthwhile things. As a leader, you need to identify ways to overcome those barriers and objections. Just as an example, perhaps you could organize a carpool to Wood Badge, and take a decorated vehicle to various events and invite people to "Sign Up For The Wood Badge Trip Of a Lifetime" Or whatever. You have set a goal to encourage people to attend Wood Badge. You have identified the common objections. Next you need stretegies for answering those objections and problems.

> Bummer.

Hello Triple "R," Some unit leaders tend to be hypercritical of district, council and/or national Scout organizations. Others will be highly supportive of the same groups. I'm not exactly sure where that variation comes from, but I see it happening fairly commonly. I'd guess that the only way that is likely to change is if you become more active and acquainted with your district and council volunteers and programs, by helping to organize them. Frankly, it sounds like your program is doing very well. If I were a district or council volunteer I'd probably be aiming to spend my time on units that were weak or failing, and thanking God for units like yours that could carry on a fine program with minimal support from the district and council. I suppose that may not be "fair," but it's the kind of reality I face as a district volunteer much of the time. As far as I'm concerned, you are entitled to feel your grievances. You probably have high standards and perhaps the district and council doesn't measure up to those all the time, just as you say. In the Cub Scouts, we do our best. Sometimes that's not as good as we might like.

As I understand it, District Chairman and Council Chairman are ideally supposed to be well known business and community leaders who can bring more people of power and wealth to Scouting. In my council, the council chair is real old money, with a lot of family wealth. In addition, he has a fine personal Scouting history, including Eagle. As an added bonus, his family has pretty much rebuilt one of the council campgrounds with their donations, and the camp director has bad problems using up all the money donated on useful camp projects. Plus the guy is very personable, handsome and probably in his late 30s. How can you argue with all that? If the council can attract movers and shakers and people with money and the power that goes with that who are good people and support Scouting, I have no problem if their volunteer history may be limited. Our Council Membership Vice President sits on the Board and was one of three or four people who selected our current Council Chair. She is a former District Chair and has been working hard to build up the volunteer end of the membership function in the district and council. Just guessing, but a council board probably needs a combination of movers and shakers, money people and Scout savvy volunteers. Perhaps things could get out of whack with too many money people or too little influence of volunteer Scouters. I see a balance on our council board, and that seems to be working very well.

Hello Basement, If you select the e-learning option on Myscouting.com, you will find that there is fast start training for commissioners. I would encourage you to take that training, since I have to suppose you have significant misconceptions about the Commissioner program. If that doesn't change your opinion, perhaps you will take notes and explain here the areas of the program which you find terrible for Scouting and a waste of time. You should be more of an Xpert and have numerous fresh examples of things you don't like after taking the training....

Hello pinto, Welcome to Cub Scouts! An early activity to do with your Wolf (?) Cub son will be to complete the Bobcat requirements. These are listed in the Wolf Handbook, or if you don;t have that yet you can Google "Trail to Bobcat" and obtain a list of them. Some can be found in a handbook form you could down load into a small booklet your son can put in a binder and decorate. As parent, you sign off those requirements when he has "done his best" to complete them. And that means doing his best while he is still having FUN doing them! This is you and your sons introduction to Cub Scout awards and advancement ---- make it a fun learning experience for both of you!

Thanks to this thread, I caught about the last half of the speech. At one point the CSE stated that the heart and soul of Scouting are the Scout Oath and Scout Law. I think that's a fair statement, but it is in contrast to one Scouter in this forum who maintains that the essence of Scouting must be found in the words of the 1916 Congressional Charter, and particularly in the concept of "Scoutcraft" that existed at the time. Frankly I think the CSE has the correct idea on where the heart of the Scouting movement is to be found. Still, I have some bones I would pick. I am concerned at the extent of the national office's ambitions. My bias is for a locally based and frugal Scouting program. I'm rather concerned about the extent of money being poured into Scouting Disneyland projects of various kinds. Frankly I have never done National or World Jamborees, Philmont or other adventure bases. I don't doubt that Scouts and adults have a great time at such activities, but I am concerned that very expensive outings of these kinds can be over done. Secondly, I am concerned about the extent to which various "partnerships" draw the Scouting program into being a part of the various intellectual fads and fashions of the day. Concern about obesity is probably entirely justified, but I'm concerned that officially adopting this concern and many others like it is going to divert our program away from its fundamentals. Chasing the fads and fashions of the day, however worthy, is not in the end what Scouting is about. I was also put off by boasting about the expanding number of Eagle Scouts when BSA membership has been stagnent. Personally I think the Eagle Scout rank as a goal is overmarketed and over sold. Let boys set their own goals in Scouting and be happy with whatever advancement goals they may choose. Overemphasis on advancement to Eagle is really a false value in my opinion. I'd put emphasis on supporting a boy's journey to First Class and make that a celebrated journey and goal.

For several years our district had no functioning OA Chapter. A couple of years ago one of our long time, dedicated district volunteers undertook to revive the OA chapter along with his Boy Scout son, and they have put in a LOT of work and built quite an effective chapter. Most recently the chapter did most of the work in sponsoring our district marble tournament and they did a fine job. I regret I don't have the time and energy to help them out. While I was voted an OA member a quarter century ago as an adult, perhaps I don't qualify without 14 days of camping in the past year.... Anyway, they do great work and are a diamond in our district. So thank you to Hillis who helps make this program possible!

Thank you Oak Tree, you are very kind. I'm retired too. Before I retired I decided that I would make Scouting my primary activity in retirement, and I have done that. That has worked very well for me. By inclination I'm rather profoundly introverted, and Scouting keeps me busy with interesting and useful things to do rather than diving into my belly button and disappearing. So Scouting serves my needs and interests in important ways as well. And to update my answer to the question posed in the thread title, last night I attended the Blue and Gold Dinner for the Cub Pack for which I am Unit Commissioner, and gave the Friends of Scouting pitch. The pack awarded 15 boys the Arrow of Light and they crossed over into an excellent Boy Scout Troop. My bias in Scouting was towards Boy Scouts, but a former District Executive pitched me the idea that "You can't have a youth program without YOUTH!" So I've spent most of my time recruiting Cub Scouts and working to provide them with quality units they can enjoy and grow into Boy Scouts. Crossing over 15 Webelos was a profoundly rewarding experience for me!

Tomorrow I'm expecting an authoritative answer on the issue of pies/can, the relative merits of dairy vs. non dairy and cans vs tubs from Ana Maria.

What efforts do the people in your unit make to be a part of your district and help carry out it's program? In my district, we depend on active units to take an interest in district activities and provide people to help lead district activities. Some units respond to that, others don't. Some districts don't have the volunteers to do much to stay in contact with active unit --- if they have resources, they are probably spending them to help weak or failing units. I've been Unit Commission for seven years for a Cub Pack that was failing when I found it, and has been a succesful and active program for most of that time now. I've been the primary contact the unit has had with the district. But unit leaders haven't made an effort to help with the district program or to stay in contact on their own initiative, at least not until the Cubmaster began attending Roundtable the past couple of months. He's starting to get introduced to people around the district and get a much better idea of what's going on. The most open way to access the district and council programs is to attend Roundtable. If you do that for three or four months you should start getting an idea of what's going on and who the actors are. Second and more directly, you can attend your monthly meeting of district leaders. That ought to be less fun than Roundtable since it's primarily a business meeting, but for that reason you will get a more direct and detailed understanding of what the district is doing and who is doing it. It would also be a way for your district leaders to become acquainted with you. While pretty much any unit leader would probably be welconme at district meetings, a Committee Chair, Scoutmaster or Cubmaster would probably be the best choice as a visitor. District volunteers are often unit volunteers as well. I'm Cubmaster for a unit that was down to a single Scout two years ago, and I've been doing a lot of work to revive that pack. In addition to that I'm Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner, District Membership Chair and Unit Commissioner for a pack that just crossed 15 boys into Boy Scouts last night at a Blue and Gold Dinner where I was the Friends of Scouting Presenter. And oh, yeah, I wear three knots. I hope you don't find that disqualifying.

> There are quite a lot of things I admire about the LDS Church and the way it is strongly managed to influence the lives of members. To some extent, Scouting tends to illustrate some of the weaknesses of that approach is my observation as a district Scouter. Units tend to be too small for good den/patrol interaction. Since leaders are commonly "called" or assigned by church leaders, they often lack aedequate experience in the program and perhaps the skills and motivation to understand how to present a quality program. The virtues of the traditional volunteer approach for Scouting has its own weaknesses in finding and motivating leaders. But when you do find them, the result is often really awesome. Our district has an Assistant District Commissioner for LDS units who has done an outstanding job of providing leadership for LDS units over seven years. He's been awarded the District Award of Merit and has probably been nominated for a Silver Beaver. Unfortunately, he is being called to another position and replaced by someone new. I hope that works out for the best, but I will really miss his skill and energy. Does anyone have bright ideas on how Scout district organizations can do a better job of helping LDS units develope quality programs? Are their things LDS church leaders should do that would help improve the quality of their Scout units?

Hello Gunny, My experience with this as a Scoutmaster was thirty years ago, so perhaps I'm dated. But at the time, it was announced and understood that the tap out would be during Camporee, a few weeks from when the election was held. I never had anyone pester me about who was elected. Perhaps those likely to be elected were more likely to plan to attend the Camporee because of that. But units are different and no doubt expectations can vary. If a unit decides they want to announce elections results right after the election, I would certainly have no objection to that. The tap out method I described above in my post was a good one though. It lent prestige and gravity to the selection process and OA membership in my experience.

Could be, Lisabob. If some is doing real climbs, it takes a good deal of training and a considerable depth of experience to be a competent leader. Without that it's real easy for people to get killed. Just a couple of weeks ago we had a woman cross country skiing alone in the backcountry, as she had done many times before. She got to a beautiful overlook, took off her skis and poles and got a little closer to the edge to get a better view. The next day the helocopters spotted the skis and poles, and a rescue team found her 600 feet below the viewpoint, where she fell when the cornice she was walking on broke off. My 15 year old brother was killed in an avalanche in 1962 when he was on a climb with a Seattle Mountaineers group. I've been in several parties involved in climbing accidents or rescues. I suppose I'm a little sensitive on the subject, or perhaps it's just my own training and experience speaking.

Unfortunately, nothin is more common than parents who don't want to talk about problems or issues they have with a Scout unit, in my experience. Often people will just leave without a word or a word of complaint. As I sit here, I'm imagining that I might be happier that a family was motivated enough to go to the council with a complaint than simply quitting. My guess is there is a reasonable probability of keeping the boy and the family in Scouting if the complaint is answered in a reasonable way.

Basement Dweller, With your last post I've decided that you do well in the "know thyself" category. I'm out just leaving to do a FOS presentation for the Cub Pack for which I've been Unit Commissioner since 2004 at their Blue and Gold Dinner. Thanks for your sendoff.

hello Eamonn, Heh, heh! Good story --- I hadn't heard that one! Someone gave some practical wisdom about the award of Silver Beavers ---- that they are awarded by representatives from the council and all the districts in the council. A person who is going to get the award is likely someone who has had occasion to interact fairly widely in the council, so they have made acquaintance with people who will be making the decision. There are certainly many people who are happy never moving beyond their unit, but they may be handicapped in getting a Silver Beaver because they simply aren't known on a council level. An alternative might be to give the decision to a small committee appointed by the Scout Executive that might have the time to look into nominations in more detail ----but I suspect that would simply create more and probably worse biases. As I look at the Silver Beavers awarded in my Council, there were one or two awards from each district and two from council volunteers ---one an able Vice President for Membership. Nothing there I can see to quibble with very much. We "Do Our Best."(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

> Unfortunately, Beavah's sage advice appears to be pretty much ignored in the rush for people to get a punch on their BSA ticket. This is probably an example of how a safety program gets in the way of safety by giving implicit approval for people to do something they are still unqualified to do, if they think they are qualified to lead something fairly called a climb.

Many troops have an equipment inspection just before aq camping trip. Some will impound the gear presented and have it loaded up when the trip begins. Having that kind of equipment inspection might be a good way of completing the requirement.

So what methods are used for boys to skate on their Eagle project?