SeattlePioneer

Hello Ox, I made up a form for parents to fill out, listing various kinds of pack tasks and asking them to check off the ones they are either interested in doing or good at doing. It's sort of an abbreviated parent survey (which I find too complicated). Within the next week I as Cubmaster (or hopefully our ScoutParent Coordinator, calls the new parent to welcome them into the pack and discuss the kinds of things they checked off and what kinds of things the pack needs done. Filling out the adult application seems premature to me, both too complicated and not providing useful information to help have that conversation with the new parent. I find you may still need to dog parents who prefer to avoid filling out even that kind of simple form --- I suspect they know it will be used to rope them in. That's my bias, anyway.

Rather than depending on happenstance to preserve a boys record in Scouting, I prefer to be proactive. I encourage Cub Scouts and their parents to start a Scouting scrapbook and to add to it the memorabilia that accumulates from den meetings, pack meetings and outings. I like to do certificates when Cub Scouts advance. The certificate includes the advancement card that has the date of the award and the signature of the Den Leader and Cubmaster and is glued to a spot on the certificate. The cloth badge is paperclipped to the certificate and the certificate goes in a plastic sheet protector, ready to go in the scrapbook. Occasionally I encourage boys to bring their scrapbooks to display at pack meetings and I display my own scrapbook from time to time to encourage families to adopt the practice. Many times outings will have handouts or other material that a Scout can date and add to his scrapbook. I encourage adults to do this as well.

> Interesting comment, bshealy. That suggests that you might allow a second week at summercamp if a troop didn't have much of a camping program and that fact would make it difficult to complete the camping requirement under a more strict interpretation. Suppose that a troop does no camping but summer camp. A Scout from the troop brings twelve days of camping to you as Merit Badge counselor together with occasional camping with the Order of the Arrow to get twenty days. I'd accept that. For a Scout who was in your "active" troop, probably not. I see no reason why a Merit Badge counselor can't look at a situation and treat Scouts as individuals.

Well shortridge, You are a good example of the language cop of today, who wants to direct the language traffic by his own political and social standards and agendas. Yes, you wish to enforce a red light when your standards and values are violated, however arbitrary. A word may be used in an entirely innocent way, but the liberal language cops will issue a warning or citation for all that. And for the same arbitrary reasons, hate language that really does have an objectively objectionable history and usage will be ignored, because it carries out the political and social agenda of denigrating those the language cops don't like in unfair ways. Of course, these language cops aren't enforcing the law of the land as they patrol patterns of English usage. They are the thought police of the liberal left, enforcing political agendas. And your comments have illustrated how the thought police work in the United States today. And I'll admit to being part of the language cops too in this discussion.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Hello Hawkrod, Thanks for reminding me to ask our OA chapter for help promoting Cub Scout Daycamp. The pack doesn't have much of a history with the daycamp right now, so having enthusiastic OQA members help promote that for both Cub Scouts and their parents would be a VERY good idea. And one I hadn't thought of before.

Hello shortridge, For someone careful with words, you seem to use them carelessly. Read the original remark in which "fagged out" was used as a synonym for "tired" in an entirely innocent way. I did the Google search for "fagged" out and posted the results, which disclose that the term has an innocent if British history. Your suggestion was to search for ways that "faggot" COULD be used in an offensive way, which I had already agreed that it could be, and therefore shouldn't be used that way. And of course "faggot" wasn't even the word used. Now I'd like to ask you about case #2 --- use of the term "homophobe." I find that an offensive piece of pseudo scientific hate language which is commonly used to imply that a person with a principled disagreement with the liberal/homosexual political and social agenda is sick with hate and fear. It's a term from politics these days, not psychology. And used in a casual way to savage those the user doesn't like and doesn't agree with: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Hello Clemlaw and Eagle 92, Thanks for the ideas and advice. It sounds like reactiviating my own membership might be worth while as a way to help wave the flag of Boy Scouts in my Cub Scout Pack. I think it's important to educate Cub Scouts and parents about the promise of Boy Scouts and what it means. That should improve the yield of Webelos who cross over to Boy Scouts. And as I mentioned, I have a Tiger Cub Den Leader just like Clemlaw who is an Eagle Scout. I've awarded him his AOL and Eagle knots, but he doesn't have a uniform so far. I would suppose he's an inactive OA member, and if he's encouraged and invited to reactivate his OA membership and wear a sash, the uniform has to be there too, right? I'm interested in tieing him into Scouting again as firmly as possible --- he's the likely future Cubmaster. I ran across another Cub Scout Pack that has an Eagle Scout as Tiger Cub Den Leader, and there are three OTHER Eagle Scout parents in the same Tiger Cub Den! Wow, they could probably almost form their own OA chapter in the Tiger Cub Den! As to inviting new Cub Scout leaders into OA membership, I might ask our district OA Adviser about the district nonminating a CS leader, but very likely the 15 days and nights of camping would be a bar to that, so that's probably not practical. In our district, the OA chapter is a help to Cub Scout units, and staffed our recent Cub Scout Marble tournament for example. Anyway, thanks for the ideas.

Very smart program, SMT, As a Cubmaster and former Scoutmaster, I'm convinced that Scout Troops need to be smart about marketing their program to Cub Scout packs, Cub Scouts and Cub Scout parents. Both the Boy Scout program and the particular troop need an effective sales job. Few troops do a good job. Your plan seems EXCELLENT, and seems to work, too!

Hi Mom! (Wow, it's been a long time since I said THAT!) > And that's my other point. Sharpen up the competition too much and you get adult egos involved, and as you say there isn't a lot you can do about that. Enforce "the rules" too much and you will find adults who will be unhappy to the point of quitting, or be loud and noisy as they pursue their grievances. Cub Scouting can't work with that kind of loud, bitter complaining by adults. So my bias is to dull the competition somewhat so both boys and adults can have a good time. For those who want sharp competition, I'd point families to our district Pinewood Derby where you can find all the competition you are likely to want.

Hi Mom! (Wow, it's been a long time since I said THAT!) > And that's my other point. Sharpen up the competition too much and you get adult egos involved, and as you say there isn't a lot you can do about that. Enforce "the rules" too much and you will find adults who will be unhappy to the point of quitting, or be loud and noisy as they pursue their grievances. Cub Scouting can't work with that kind of loud, bitter complaining by adults. So my bias is to dull the competition somewhat so both boys and adults can have a good time. For those who want sharp competition, I'd point families to our district Pinewood Derby where you can find all the competition you are likely to want.

Do people want to compile a dictionary of verbotten language? Perhaps we could burn all the books that contain words people to which some people object these days. Actually, homosexuals have been pretty tolerant about such things, even adopting the objectionable term "queer" for their own use rather commonly. I might add that when I saw the objection to this word, I took the time to look it up to see if it had a real hateful history of usage towards homosexuals. If that had been the case, the objection to its usage would be reasonable. But it doesn't. It simply doesn't have such an implication. With that understanding, it really seems unreasonable to object to the term, unless you want to suggest that it might offend the ignorant. I'm not agreeable to giving the language police that kind of power. I might add that I DO object to the popular use of the term "homophobic" which I do consider to be hate language. It's commonly used to drip contempt upon people the user despises, with the added implication that the person it's directed at is sick, since it's a pseudo scientific term. It's not really a scientific term, it's a term from politics used for rather base reasons, although the left has been polishing up and popuklarizing the usage of this hate language for thirty years or more. But you can object to that usage all you want and it's rare you will find anyone using it willing to give it up. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Excellent ideas there, bbender! And some of your ideas address the concerns I have below: Unfortunately, rules are often a frail reed to raise against parents motivated by Ego. And using Authority to enforce rules with parents may end badly. My personal bias is to de emphasize the competetive element somewhat so that parents aren't as likely to get emotionally over involved. Unfortunately, this problem seems particularly acute with the Pinewood Derby.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Thanks for the additional information, Eagle92! I'd be interested in opinions on my idea of trying to revive inactive OA members from Scouters in Cub Packs. On the positive side, I see that as perhaps helping to provide an additional focus on Boy Scouts as a goal of the Cub Scout program. On the negative side, people are always looking for reasons to be suspicious of "elite" programs. I also have a Cubmaster who would be an excellent candidate for OA membership. Sounds like I could talk to the OA Chapter Adviser about possible membership for him. And our Chapter Adviser badly needs more Scouters to help with the program. Perhaps looking at reactiviating former OA members among Cub Scout families might help with that. Just possibilities....(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

> I don't think a 911 call to the language police is needed in this case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagging http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fag+out "fagged out" is a colloquial term for "tired."

Very interesting comments Eamonnand Eagle 92. I've been a rescuer of failed units in my district. When I got back into Scouting a few years ago, I asked the DE to refer me to a striggling unit to work with. I understand that's unusual --- most volunteers prefer to work with strong and succesful units. There were things with the first troop I didn't care for (it folded a few month later). I went on to a second strugglinf troop (we have plenty!) and worked for about two years as a AS and CM before that one folded. Iwas also asked to work with as a Unit Commissioner with a Cub Pack that had lost their "Cubmaster Who Does Everything," wasn't meeting and didn't even have a roster of members. I was succesful in helping to rebuild that unit and it just crossed over 15 Weebelos into a Scout Troop. I volunteered in my current Cub Pack that was down to one Webelos Scout as a Tiger Cub Den Leader and then as Cubmaster. We have developed a good core of adult leaders, an excellent Bear Den but I'm still struggling with that one. In addition, the Tiger Cub Roundtable Commissioner left last June with no replacement, and I've been putting on that program since August rather than see it fail. I've explained to the DE that we need to come up with a replacement or I'll be dropping that shortly because I'm out of quality program ideas. I appreciate Eamon's comments about the perspective on this phenomena from the lofty platform of the Key 3. Sometimes I've asked for help from the District Chair or District Commissioner and I've never received a reply to those e-mails. I found that curious. Personally I don't regard mtself as a Scouting Martyr. I'm a retiree and my intention was to use Scouting as the framework for my retirement activities. I've had a two clear successes with Cub Packs that are now great successesin the district and a failure or two. The Cub Pack and Cub Roundtable programs are question marks at this point. I know what a quality program is and my aim has been to provide a quality program, then look for interested adults who are attracted by that program to recruit as leaders so I can get out. My aim is NOT to do "Everything," but to do the things necessary to start a quality program and show people how that can be improved over time if they will contribute their support and effort. Just this morning for example, I emailed my Cub Pack leaders suggesrting we could add the Cub Scout Resident Camp to our program for Webelos age Scouts next year, and that we can use the popcorn sale to give those families a way to pay for that activity if we wish. I've asked for their comments and advice. We have an excellent Bear Den program this year that could kick off that effort have they a mind to do so. If they are willing to pick that up, GREAT! If not, it's not something I will be doing. We have a great district volunteer who has labored mightily to revive our district OA chapter in the same spirit that Eagle 92 describes. He has had a good deal of success with the Scouts, but hasn't found a replacement for himself. I wish I could help him more, but I'm pretty full up myself. Besides, he needs a NEW leader to take over the program. Any tips on how to do that, Eagle 92?

Just where in that thicket is this to be found?

I don't believe anyone answered West Coast Scouter's question:

Hello Clemlaw,

Hello Sailing PJ, As a Cubmaster, I have an theory why no binder is presented: First, it save money. Second, most families have a variety of 3 ring binders which can be repurposed for a new use. Most importantly, when you probide your own binder, it presents an opportunity to decorate the binder to suit your own tastes and purposes. Two examples that come to hand for me--- 1) My Scout Scrapbook I made, which is a three ring notebook with some colored paper glued on the front cover with "Scout Scrapbook" and my name on it and a cloth "Recruiter" patch glued on. The spine of the scrapbook has colored construction paper glued to it with "Scout Scarpbook" on it. I use this failry often to encourage CubScouts and parents to start a Cub Scout Scrapbook to save mementoes of hikes, outings, Pack meetings and activities. 2) I do Tiger Cub Den Leader Training, and I use a three ring notebook as an example of a Tiger Cub Den Leader Handbook. It has an orange (Tiger Cub color) cover on the front that says " Pack XXX Tiger Cub Den Leader Handbook" It's decorated with a Tiger Cub drawing. The spine is decorated with an orange strip that says "Tiger Cub Handbook" If I have enough three ring notebooks, making that Tiger Cub handbook is our gathering activity used for collecting and keeping the course handouts. I encourage new Tiger Cub Den Leaders to keep notes and suggestions for outings and activities, and to pass the handbook on to the next years Tiger Cub Den Leader. Well, that's Cub Scouts for you. I don't know if that kind of thing might work with Se Scouts!

Hello Scoutfish, One of my great pleasures is giving Scouts the opportunity to flip their first pancake ever. Usally I find you can depend on that happening a several times while doing a Cub Scout breakfast. But starting a conflict with parents who are probably convinced they are doing the right thing, and perhaps are having a good experience doing it just doesn't seem worthwhile. I try to make a point of my expectations, but perhaps people just don't get the word, think their way is the right way or whatever. It's a disappointment to me, and perhaps some Cub Scouts lose out on the experience at that moment. On the bright side, I'm avoiding the drama of a newspaper story "Cubmaster Wrestles Parent Over Spatula At Cub Scout Campout!"

Once again we see that it's a mistake for a Scout Troop to take for granted where those Webelos boys will go. Troops should have their finger on what is going on in the pack and to offer their assistance when it's needed....

Our newly recruited Day Camp director is signed up!

> Sorry, Eagle Dad, I don't agree. Too many PWDs become excessively competetive, from what I see. They often aren't age appropriate for Tiger Cubsand Wolves, and perhaps Bears too. And too often they bring about an excess of parent involvement that tends to spoil the event for Scouts. Parent involvement --- you seem to never get it when you need it. And too often you get it when you don;t want it. At our Farther's Day Breakfast my aim is to give Scouts the chance to cook breakfast for their parents, especially flipping pancakes. Instead over and over I see parents taking the spatula away from their son to flip pancakes themselves. And event that takes away the car from the boy so he can't "tamper" with it is the kind of thing I'm talking about. My aim this year is to experiment with a simpler fomrat along the lines of some of those discussed here. Our district PWD race is as formal as anyone could wish. Those who want that kind of race will be welcome to attend.

> I think that's the correct thing. Personally, I'd invite the Den Leader back if she will come. Sad. There are some real leadership issues with that pack that need to be sorted out. Is there a Unit Commissioner or Pack Committee Chair who will start taking charge? Does your troop rely on boys crossing over from the pack? If so, a smart Troop Committee Chair would find a person or two in the troop mto help set the pack on a firm leadership foundation BEFORE things fall apart.

I'm not a fan of the Pinewood Derby. It lends itself to an excessive amount of adult led competition. However, we seems stuck with it. In past years, we've used our district PWD as our event. Unfortunately, this year they've let it slip to May and that doesn't work well for the pack. I don't care to do all the PWD weighing, measuring and such. I would prefrer to allow Cub Scouts to set up their own races themselves. In the past I've given Scouts certificates for the Raingutter Regatta and let Scouts decide who they want to race. The winner of each such match gets a star added to their certificate. I'd consider doing that for the PWD. Add some competitions for the "coolest car" and whatever. An overhyped PWD does not appeal to me. Who has ideas on simpler kind of PWD competitions?