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Things I get from the district that are no small feat ... someplace once a month for scouters of all sorts to get together, a list of counselors for every MB (not just the ones my troop has experts in), someplace to send each pack's best PWD car day camp an advancement chair for every Eagle BoR a means for my crew to invite every scout in our community to help them place flags on veterans' graves in the city's not-for-profit cemetary camporees fliers printed on council's ink council calendars a place for good men to serve when their time in a unit has run its course my boys get to know that the SM and I aren't the only adults that expects them to suck it up and carry their weight. Yes, sometimes my people get guff from high-handed UC's. (Ron, if you're reading, love you man. But, we're not about to be bothered by the burrs up other folks' butts.) And they have to put up with me yanking the chain back. Small cost of doing business, I figure.

'Skip has a point. The reason BSA is in this state of arrested development is that 25 years ago homosexual rights publications were holding up some of their constituents who were model citizens, one of whom happened to be an SM. They used his association with the BSA to ask society at large to be more tolerant ... not to suggest that that boys were an impressionable source of future members.

In one of Bryan's forums, http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/forums/topic/adult-free-outings/#post-39683 an fella used "Jimmy the Retarded Scoutmaster" in reference to someone who would endorse scouts enjoying the pinnacle scouting experience. Well, rather than getting sour about this lemon, I thought I could load my water gun and squirt off a little lemonade here ... Growing up, one of our ASMs had a moderate to severe learning disability ... sorta like Down's syndrome. Nice guy. Not really good for camping. (Some of the older scouts recalled some mean stories from his boyhood days.) However, he was great at keeping track of stuff, jotting down notes for the SM, organizing material for activities, etc ... And he genuinely like us. Which, as a boy went a long way, considering that some of the other ASMs were not as expressive and others were kinda corrupt. As an adult, it helped me to expect the best from learning disabled youngsters. I thought it would be good to hear from other scouters about their learning-disabled adult leaders. How do you involve them in your program?

The "Build an Adventure" pitch to parents and Cubs might work. But for older youth, I think adventure has been oversold. Until BSA returns to the pinnacle scouting experience of qualifying to hike and camp independently with your mates, kids who don't have Jambo or High Adventure Bases in their sights will say "Why Bother"?

My favorite JTE peeve is an example: Silver has been the highest value in BSA. Why would they put gold at the top JTE level? Do they think committee members are girl scouts? But, why does JTE need levels anyway? Just get your score. See if you can beat it next year. If you're a commish, call your units whose scores dropped the most. 'Nuff said. Sometimes, I feel that the problem is not not necessarily writing inconsistently, it's writing too much.

As you've seen, no schedule is perfect. We've tried all different kinds of things ... including a meeting at a coffee shop by the grocery store so the PL's can plan the next few months, then provision for the weekend's troop activity. Try to guide boys in running meetings more efficiently. It's a very challenging skill, which I confess to doing poorly. Get a sense of their priorities, and guide the SPL in ordeing the agenda accordingly. We do try to have the boys bear the brunt of poor planning. This is very hard with adults on your committee chomping at the bit to fill in some gap.

Haven't read the training sylabus in a decade, and I'm not comfortable simply saying I have some gnostic understanding of the requirements that a scout doesn't. This is one of those situations where I'd talk to the PLs about "letter" vs. "spirit" of the law, and let him think it through himself and decide what's best for his scout.

That was the best part of my experience in my troop's Leadership Corp (aside from the honking big red patch with the oil lamp on it). I had no interest in the local explorer post (which some of the girls in band mates were in): everything I needed in terms of adventure was with the LC on a ridge-top in the middle of winter making pizzas from scratch with an improvised patrol mess kit. Then, I could pass down those stealth-acquired skills to any PL or other scout who would listen. Reflecting on my sons' troop, I think that was one of the reasons some older scouts told me they didn't like the patrol method. They kinda grew out of it, yet they really did not want to bother committing to the crew. None of our boys like the idea of forming a "Venturing Patrol" because to them it felt like they're being snooty. They like the younger scouts, and don't like feeling "above and apart", except maybe after lights out when they want to hang out and finish a game of cards, reflect on life, etc ... So, letting boys establish their own patrols won't necessarily lead to age-based. And being flexible with the older scouts won't necessarily undermine your patrols. Trying to micromanage both just seems to make for ephmeral partrols from my observations.

OK scratch the insects and arachnids. The PLs are the ones who actually sign off, and they take the requirements quite literally. I usually encourage the boys to note off-list critters anyway. If they are attending to lesser fauna they may soon find a robin or jay or largemouth bass that will do the same. However, I'm easily mesmerized by rare items cleaverly identified. I wouldn't be beneath counting anything with a "cool factor" to it.

Oh thumbslips! I meant to +1 this. sorry for tarnishing your rep, Pack.

Additional question: does anyone let the boy spread this out over a number of days? I always thought it to mean in the space of an hour or so. (Like Kim's game, you have only so much time to look in the box.) But, there's really no time-frame listed.

Although this is a great activity for a patrol to set out on while at camp, I also encourage boys to do this with a buddy in their neighborhood. Like @, application of all five senses to identify trace is good. (E.g., if near a lake, spot the bluegill nests. Smell of the skunk or rat-snake. Feel the scale insects on bark. Hear crickets, cicadas, deer whistle, etc ...) I am satisfied with common names that get them down to the genus/species for most vertabrates .. to the order for most insects/mollusks. "Wild" simply means untamed/uncaged. Invasive or not. So zebra muscles, and feral dogs and cats count. Basically, I'm after the excersize of observation, not taxonomy. I consider it a real win if a boy reports back with something like "I don't know what it was, but it sounded like, moved like, and tasted like ..." to the point that after an improvised "twenty questions" from his buddies, we can work out an identification based on his description. I've had scouts years later on a day leave from base send me pictures and descriptions asking for help with identification. P.S. - I have yet to have anyone try to figure trace out based on taste!

Our boys are older, and use their meetings to plan campouts and other weekend activities. Many of us from Pittsburgh have family who came from Poland, so Polish food is popular, and our boys will often put it on their menu. While camping this winter, the boys in my troop realized that they didn't purchase the peirogi, so they modified their schedule and made a 5K hike plan up a frozen stream to the nearest store while the scoutmaster and I hiked in the opposite direction to the nearest coffee shop. The boys called us with a request to modify their return trip so as to avoid the stream. (They forgot to bring a pack to carry the peirogi and had to improvise one with the shopping bag and some rope ... so they were afraid of their dinner being lost if they slipped on the ice.) We provided them an alternate hike plan on paths that they never knew about, and we met them to make sure they (and our dinner ) found their way.

No, @@TAHAWK, I have a core value ... the at-large meaning of "patrol" ... that undergirds everything that the great scouters are trying to say. But maybe that's a trivial idea. Maybe the important thing about the patrol method is not "patrolling" per the dictionary. Maybe it's the administrative "subdivision", detached from any action that may only coincidentally relate to the meaning of "patrol" prevalent at the time BP decided to apply it to boys as well as security forces. Why don't science teachers call their student divisions patrols? ... Because when it comes time to break into lab groups, they don't need the class scheming to march perimeters around the school district. :!:

Oh, sources. Lessee ... Webster: PATROL 1 a : the action of traversing a district or beat or of going the rounds along a chain of guards for observation or the maintenance of security b : the person performing such an action c : a unit of persons or vehicles employed for reconnaissance, security, or combat 2 : a subdivision of a Boy Scout troop or Girl Scout troop Or, nodding to that British officer, Oxford: Definition of patrol in English: noun 1A person or group of people sent to keep watch over an area, especially a detachment of guards or police: a police patrol stopped the man and searched him More example sentences 1.1The action of keeping watch over an area by walking or driving around it at regular intervals: the policemen were on patrol when they were ordered to investigate the incident 1.2An expedition to carry out reconnaissance: we were ordered to investigate on a night patrol 1.3A routine operational voyage of a ship or aircraft: a submarine patrol 1.4A unit of six to eight Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts forming part of a troop. verb (patrols, patrolling, patrolled) [with object] Back to top Keep watch over (an area) by regularly walking or traveling around or through it: the garrison had to patrol the streets to maintain order [no object]: pairs of men were patrolling on each side of the thoroughfare I suppose I should brace myself for some masterful counter-quote of BP saying that Boy Scouting's use of the term as a noun is in no way to be confounded with the traditional uses of it as a verb. If so, it doesn't seem his scouts got the memo. To quote one of his scouts regarding Brownsea: "... we were ready for the first days activities. That proved to be "patrolling." B-P wanted to find out if the patrol method he had devised ... would work." -- Arthur Primmer, via Hillcort, Boy's Life, August 1982. p 32.

@@MattR, I have a feeling you're gonna be writing the next great BSHB, just because you keep asking the right questions! Adults may ... Provide a list of land-owners who may grant permission for overnights. Offer their shop or garage for a project. (I still remember building that first Klondike sled in my PL's basement .. bless his mom.) Procure a council calendar for each PL. Provide transportation ... including a connection for MP3 players to the stereo sytem. Bring back event flyers from rountables for the boys to consider. Provide a list of community leaders and their offices to hike to and dicuss citizenship. Offer sewing services in exchange for D/O cobbler. Offer D/O cobbler in exchange for sewing knots. Counsel an MB representing their favorite interest. Be prepared with a tall tale, upon invitation. Swap patches. Certify in BSA guard, or Wilderness First Aid, or Climb on Safety, or Campmaster. Gently herd other adults to some background task. So, to be consise adults: Assist the SM. Listen to the boys, advise only as requested. Camp at a distance ... only as needed. Engender other adults' trust. Count smiles.

If you can't bring yourself to be on speaking terms with the professionals, why would you want leadership in the council? I've never been in your shoes. I certainly disliked certain things that execs have done, and told them as much. But I never disliked them personally. If you need a go-between, your charter-org rep is the one who signed off on your troop membership. Your committee are the ones who actually value you. (They may not value you much, but they might like to keep you around.) Finally, I find when I can't remember having actually said something, it's time to start saying less.

What water guns? All we have round here are portable safe-distance reciprocal cooling stations.

That one has an easy solution. Give the embryo a few years, then a gun with one bullet. If he/she didn't really want to have a say, he/she could act accordingly. If he/she is offended that you'd even think he/she wouldn't, you'd better run. What we really disagree on here is how important it is to have more people on the planet.

So, that Dr.'s appointment is still on?

Shadowlords! But, not so much. Adult association is also a method. Why is it a method? Because it's not, by definition, patrolling. Which means @@MattR, your last paragraph should probably boil down to "see adult association".

This has to do with vision. What image do we want to put in kids' (and parents') heads when they hear the word "Patrol"? I think we want them to imagine imitating those boys who dashed out into the British countryside after reading BP's reports on his military scouts. We want them spying out the land. I was talking to a retired fella after church about his motorcycle rides with the Mrs through the countryside. Some of the boys' favorite hikes crossed his favorite rides. The conversation ended with "We live in a really great country." This is what patrolling should do: build a collection of discoveries that boys can share with one another. Patrolling is not about leadership development, although well-developed leadership improves it. It's not about building fellowship, although fellowship should happen in the process. It's not about skills acquisition, although you need to acquire skills to succeed. It's not about planning, although an SM is not approving a poorly planned overnight activity. It's precisely learning the lay of the land ... through night and day ... fair weather and foul ... independent of your "generals" ... and for the good of your unit. That is what patrolling is. That's what boys should be shooting for: the pinnacle scouting experience of hiking and camping independently with your mates. The patrol (i.e. the action of patrolling) then becomes the evaluator (as opposed to, say, some instructor giving "advancement grades"). If you patrol well, it's proof that your boys have developed leadership, fellowship, service, skills, etc ... If you aren't patrolling well, you will quickly learn what skills need to be gained, what leadership needs to be changed, what service could be done, or how to increase fellowship. To scout, I think, is simply patrolling as an individual. I don't mean "without a buddy." I mean being individually responsible for everything your patrol (and in turn, your unit) may need to achieve success. To scouter? I figure that's just demonstrating scouting by being a caring adult. In doing so, I guess we're encouraging scouting. (E.g., if a group of youth come to you with a great plan for camping on their own, you help them ... maybe even loan them the keys to your car.)

@@MattR (and others) spot-on in terms of defning the noun for adults, maybe. If the adult has some mental white-board with an organizational chart. The boys won't give you that many words. However, I'm convinced that we scouters need to define the verb. The verb gives us vision. So allow me to hack at one thing ... This isn't make-a-wish foundation. That's not what we're really about. Boys have heard enough marketing hype that they instantly tune out everything after "what you want". I think we are better served with something like: "There is this astounding country at your doorstep. Go out into it. Observe. Report back with what you found. That's your mission. And we have just the method for you to accomplish it!" If you fit that in there and toss out some of the hyperbole, add the phrase "first class scout (the concept, not just the patch)" somewhere, and I think you'll be on to something.

So @@John-in-KC doesn't want us blethering all over his 7-year-old "hot" topic about BSA's evolving definition of active. But, before he closed the thread @@scoutergipper mentioned that his boys were looking for a way that only active youth could vote in PoR elections. He ended with the rhetorical question about wouldn't it be interesting if that's how things were done in real life. Well, I can think of one instance where it sort of applies: stocks. The more you purchase, the more votes you have at board meetings. That means little to us average investors, but those folks who hustle up and bought more than a few percent of a company often did so to have a hand in the running of things. If your troop has a really diligent Scribe, he could determine the number of "shares" each scout has in the troop based on the last 6 months activity. Talk about turning a PoR that lots of folks toss away into something requiring serious leadership! Boys could then "vote their shares" for SPL elections, troop activities, meeting length, etc ... I have no idea if this would actually motivate more boys to be invested in troop life. But it's an interesting way to think about the meaning of "active" beyond "what you need to do for advancement."