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Keep in mind it's not just science. Technology and engineering involve a lot of button pushing. Animation and web graphics involve beaucoup math. And, why scouting? Well, there is a sense that all of these fields need leadership and ethics. Not just in our nation, but worldwide. Why the cross-talk about inclusiveness? Location. Most lab facilities are in schools or with companies that hold non-discrimination agreements. Why the tricked-out mobile lab? Advertising. No different than those mobile climbing walls are pine wood derby tents.

What this boils down to: if the boy has an opportunity to work on a badge but no chance to get the SM's signature, he can get started and catch up with signatures later. And, it discourages micro-managing a kid's advancement. "Question no further on how well he learned ..." is in the context of determining if the boy deserved the badge. I freely ask boys what they learned from counselors by way of evaluating the counselor. If, for example, you counsel astronomy, and my guy can't point out Casseopia in the night sky, explaining that he never really had to do so, you'll get a call from me. Furthermore, it does not state that you can't question if the boy did the requirements. I do just that if there's any hint that shortcuts were taken. If the boy will admit that a corner was cut, he can do-over ... everybody gets to grow a little.

Yeah, maybe if they left more of a trace. There is room for all kinds, ppl. If you want to throw a stone, make sure it's through the open door of your glass house. My boys are the 'ruck it' types, but they also don't mind setting up a camp kitchen from time to time in an easy place for lots of folks to bring a nice camera. So, you'll see more pictures of them at family night with the DO's and large chow line and everyone lined up for flags or in front of the trailer, etc ... Makes momma happy. What seems to make them happy is their "Hoover towns" improvised by a couple of tarps at streams edge with a fire-circle they built on-site ... and the occasional young ladies who are willing to hike a ways (and be escorted back to their site later in the evening) to enjoy their company! They do more of those. But, when they are doing the 2000 yards uphill both ways (sometimes they insert at a creek mouth and extract at a plateau upstream), they are more likely to carry a nce stake than a fancy camera. (Those mult-magapixel phones have changed that a little.)

Well, thanks to these mobile devices. We're all thumbs. But, I think there is this misconception that patrols are only relieve to to the outdoors. I honestly don't see why STEM labs wouldn't apply the patrol method. A small cohesive group dedicated to uncovering the laws that govern the universe ... sounds like. Arrest way to learn.

Rick, thanks for the informative additional data and excellent analysis. Let's suppose some of these STEM scouts do develop outdoor skills so they can construct outdoor field labs. Especially, let's say that lab work involves hiking and camping independently in labs of 8, including the occasional week at a BSA camp, and some natural leaders among the girls in the lab rise to the fore, becoming effectively 1st class scouts (the concept not the patch). Where does this leave the O/A in the context of its exclusion of girls for membership?

That's what I miss about a big troop. Watching how different styles play out. The good news is that one of our "spin-off" troops has decided to merge back with ours. And they are on the younger side, so we get the "crazy" back. Better yet, I've become one of those adults with no sons of my own to fret about.

I aggree with Stosh, they can all be open to intrusion. Take it from the folks who make the news for being up in arms because the school nurse sent a letter home about little (?) Johnny's body mass index. I disagree with Skeptic's view that this does not have to be any more than the leader makes of it. SMs have dozens of folks telling them how they should do thier job. This is one more way someone can poke the bear. Welcome: Suggestions for ideas of how to probe for scout spirit during an SMC. Unwelcome: Required one-size-fits-all script for every SMC.

I think it is in the SM's purview to discuss matters of religion with a boy, but I think it's an intrusion on the SM to require it of every SMC. Simple example: what if a fella does whatever religious duties his family expects of him, but the boy's a pushover and won't stand up to his peers? I want my SMC to focus on bravery and true friendship. And, if it's obvious that religion is gonna derail the discussion (maybe by giving the kid the impression that he's at least doing the "important" thing right), there's no way I'm gonna throw that into the mix. Sure maybe there's some aspect of the kids faith that may help address the issue, but I'm inclined to let him say that in the context of deciding if he can commit to being more courageous in the ensuing months. Any bean-counting MC who'd try to correct me after overhearing our discussion had better brace for a little brimstone!

One other thing to do is train an ASM to greet your boys who've advanced beyond First Class from time-to-time and ask "What's the plan?" The boy is then expected to reply with the rank that he's working on, the number of merit badges he still needs to earn, the badge he is currently working on, and the counselor he is working with. Or, if the boy is not interested in advancement anymore, he is to say so plainly, and then explain what other good he's doing in the world. Conversation ends with ASM saying, "If you need help with anything, let us know." This should get a boy comfortable with thinking about (and hopefully making) his next move.

We have an awesome set of neighboring councils not yet absorbed by Laurel Highlands. I doubt this is a boy-driven decision. Does somebody think they can build their little feifdom in the other council? Do they feel that because they camp out of council their FOS collection should go in that direction? Suppose a patrol likes their CO's facilities and meeting night, but they would like to camp with a different troop and have their popcorn sells go to that troop's treasury. Would this discruntled troop be okay with a set of boys behaving that way?

Boy Scouts ... love ... paperwork!

We do nudge boys a little. If they are first class (the concept not the patch) we want them to seek recognition for their accomplishments. However, earned = signed off = the boy demonstrated his skill before a qualified youth. (Adults are last ditch.) You've already recognized that your boys aren't taking care of each other as well as they should in this area. So, you need to get your older boys together and positively reinforce the good behavior of your troop guide.

I discourage parents to talk contract with a boy regarding advancement. How is making any kind of deal "self motivating"? For as many boys as we lose when they get their license, we have twice as many who actually step it up and start finishing their advancement once they can drive to meetings and activities on their own.

Since I can't quite figure out how to split your quote ,,, If a boy waits until 17 to do all three Citizenships, yes it can be a bit dull. If a boy does them at summer camp while his buddies are catching bass or sailing, it can be really dull. If the boys picks the "simplest" minimum effort requirements, it can be dull and meaningless. I honestly don't see how consolidating the three would change that. The one advantage of separating them: If he takes each from a different local counselor who has a different interest in public affairs and can provide the boy with interesting opportunities in his own home town, it can be a true voyage of discovery. Stosh can speak for himself on that, I often phrase it as "We want all of our youth to be first class scouts (the concept, not the patch)." That's because I'm on the venturing side of things as well, and half my youth can't earn that patch, and a few of my boy scouts aren't all that motivated towards advancement. But, that does not excuse them from being comfortable in their own skin in the wild and responsible citizens in their community. Advancement beyond that is there for those willing to take the initiative, but if all the boys do is hike and camp (maybe hunt and fish) and coordinate a district-wide service project and help little old ladies across the street and rapel off cliffs and biner their girlfriends and sisters in ... most of us are okay with that. Yes, the program is really designed to allow adults with diverse backgrounds to be resources for the boys. My suggestion: catch up with the person who taught the training over a cup of coffee and let him/her know three things you're most interested in helping boys learn about and ask him if there is a demand for those in the troop our your district. Counseling is not always about providing boys the training yourself but arranging for a boy and his buddy (sometimes his patrol and troop) to get the training from contacts who you trust, then reviewing with them what they've learned at the end of the day. For those partials, the arranging (i.e. summer camp) has already been done, the boy just needs to go over with a counselor the things he didn't complete.

The phenomenon is called "profusion" the exponential growth of choices that folks never had (and really never needed) before. I'm really cynical about tweaks in requirements. Plenty of changes since 1980, and non of it has patched the membership drain. Non-scouts come to me asking if I have early edition handbooks. They have a sense in their head that there are some novel challenges. Also, no regrets about the required ones. Contrary to popular belief, my sons were never asked in school to report about their neighborhoods. They were never asked to review or track their spending, family obligations, or excersize habits. They weren't asked cook meals over a fire. They were never asked to emcee an assembly -- even a classroom one. Nobody in our school district would ever suggest a kid grab a buddy on a day off and hike 10 miles through the North Side into town, then over the Hill onto Pitt's campus to meet with an ASM who was on a study break playing assassin in the Cathedral of Learning, cook lunch in Shenley Park, then hike that same distance home. In just a few years these kids will be sitting in a bar talking politics or travel or finance or how to be a responsible dad, and one or two of these "pencil whipped" factoids that the fella first learned while meeting a counselor will rattle out of his head and command a little respect. At the very least, the guy will know he has what it takes to arrange office hours wih a prof, or to meet with his seargant, or come prepared to talk with the manager and request to understand some nuance or another.

It's like I have an evil twin. :0 Warning about advice from strangers: With the strategy these fellows suggest (and I've followed) only a boy with real initiative will earn MBs outside of camp. He might not discover that initiative until he's 17.4 and finally decides it's time to earn Life, and 6 months later, Eagle ... with increased probability of missing the mark. His initiative = your palpitations. On the flip side, if he does hustle up and gets in the habit of calling counselors and knocking out an MB every month or so, when he does Eagle, he'll have time to kick back and with those extra electives rack up a few Palms.

I noticed the same perception decades ago when I lived in London. The vicar asked if I would teach the Sunday school kids along with another single fellow (a Londoner ... who helped with translation.) The thought that maybe a parent should have that responsibility over some Yank on a short stay never crossed anyone's mind. In the US, there is a sense that such things should at least have parent supervision. But, we also have many of our young singles scrambling to pay college debts and our parents of former scouts scrambling to make sure their kids get through college with minimum debt. A lot of folks don't commit to having kids until they are able to commit time to raising them, so many parents see volunteering with their kid's unit as part of that commitment.

Hmmm, a reward system that's open ended and let's the youth cobble together their own path from a smorgasbord. No specific requirements just something from columns A, B C ... . I think I have a name for it .... http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Venturing/Awards.aspx

I like the idea of something more compact than a full-blown trailer. Keeps guys from overstocking. My first thought was which campsites would support roads that would get the kitchen close enough. But, I guess if you have a bunch of boys they can wheel it in the remaining 100 yards. My second thought was clean-up. Nice thing about a walk-in trailer: a boy can tidy it up on a rainy day (of which we have many). No dining fly required.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges/mb-COOK.aspx sez Note: The meals prepared for Cooking merit badge requirements 5, 6, and 7 will count only toward fulfilling those requirements and will not count toward rank advancement. Meals prepared for rank advancement may not count toward the Cooking merit badge. You must not repeat any menus for meals actually prepared or cooked in requirements 5, 6, and 7. The camping merit badge requirements have no such provision; however, the requirements are a little more nuanced ... asking for details that the 1st class requirements don't. It is up to your patrol leaders to read the Tenderfoot through First Class requirements and determine what's fair there. I train my boys to only sign off on requirements they've seen the boy demonstrate proficiently. The "I did this for Camping in the scoutcraft area at summer camp" line does not count. And it is up to the respective merit badge counselors to determine whats fair for the respective badges they counsel. Different people, different sign-offs. But, if each is working responsibly in his/her own sphere, it should be clear that the boy had better get cooking!

Yeah, I helped feed that fire a little. My actual policy is a little more nuanced ... With E-mails, I try to copy SM/Co-Advisor/Parent or other youth when possible. Has nothing to do with YPT, however. It's how you make sure a message gets read. If I do have a one-on-one conversation with a youth, I later follow-up verbally with an adult we both trust, and summarize the gist of the conversation. IMHO, this is more reliable than copying, asking if there's a parent in the room, recording for later, filing a transcript, etc ... It's in the spirit of having an SMC in plain view. Leaders know the adult is having a private conversation, they know roughly why, they know they can get more details, and they can ask to listen in the next time if they feel the need.

I upped HH's reply because he took the first essential step in teaching any scout skill (and saving Western civilization): referencing. I upped LC's because, well, because his pic and HH's are similar , and he kinda used the "anti-reference" technique. Renax, when the ASM told you that, you should have asked him if the class had everyone look up this supposed rule in a copy of the GTA, or if they were instead taught by the inadequate EDGE method.