qwazse

Oh, that's funny! In our old troop adults paid their own dues (enough to cover registration and some patches). The new troop paid for adults, but they didn't have nearly as many on the roster as we were bringing into the merger. So, to keep them from draining their treasury, we used a good chunk of our remaining treasury (i.e. mostly this year's fundraising) to underwrite everyone's dues for this year. In my case, I've paid for my registration on the crew's charter. (Actually, I still owe $ to the crew treasurer for that.) Didn't cost the crew anything. Several of the venturers were primary on the crew's roster. The new troop treasurer asked if I wanted a check for the money was transferred for their registration but not spent on it, and I replied "One more piece of paperwork for less than $100? Please don't make my life any more complicated than it is!" I'm beginning to wonder if part of this is a parallel to the "burn out" topic.

@@Krampus, you want someone like me to "make it official." I'm wondering why? What value is it to the troop if a person is only registered as the advisor of a neighboring crew?

Well, being an old crow, there are too few of us to only make friends within our patrol! There aren't that many competitions, but the main one is there to challenge our priorities. Some folks hate it. A few folks are indifferent, and some find it insightful. But, I don't know, I can see it being just as divisive among folks within a patrol as between patrols. Anyway, here's the big picture. It's not just about games. It's about time management. Different patrols operate on different schedules as they meet between course dates. You need to allow for that. Your gonna prepare different menus and maybe even different styles of camping for the second weekend and have different material to present, and obviously that means gear that you two normally share may need to be divided. Then you are going to write different tickets with different goals to achieve in the following 18 months. That means time where you both might be doing different things. Sometimes that's very good. You'll complement one another. Sometimes that may result in more time apart than planned. Frankly, I would encourage you each to have one of the goals on your ticket be something like "take your spouse out to dinner and talk about each others goals and aspirations". Now, zooming out to the big big picture: scouting couples are awesome ... but only as long as scouting does not replace the marriage. I have had friends on the brink of divorce because of that "missed memo." Fortunately I had a mutual friend whom we could agree upon to counsel them, and he called me to understand what was ailing before they all met (as if I knew much more than superficial stuff). But, that blessing is not available (and on a person's mind) when it needs to be to everyone who needs it. All that to say WB -- and scouting in general -- is a great opportunity to do your marriage a solid. All depends on how much you wanna practice graciousness and humility.

@@bubba.bubba love your enthusiasm. But as you see, there are technical hurdles that will make you think that someone is untrained when they are not. There is also a lack of corporate discipline in that some units train their people so well (at least, in their opinion), they have neither time nor patience for district training. Folks under both circumstances will not countenance the "every boy needs a trained leader" mantra that you so enthusiastically adhere to. This leaves you with a mess, because you have some seasoned scouters who are "all that" but just don't care if anyone recognizes them a such along with scouters who want to do it their way and would not want to change. But any list of names that your district puts out won't give you a hint at who's who. I think your goal should be to personally invite 100% of your district's untrained leaders to the next training session -- either to be a trainee if they just registered in that position or a facilitator if they've been in that position for a while. Maybe see if you can get a seasoned scouter like your district commissioner to sit with you on a few of those calls. He/she might know which of your untrained list may need to be accorded a little more respect, and which are just bucking the system. What kind of numbers are you looking at anyway? How many scouters are coming up as needing what kinds of training?

@@Krampus, I'm in venturing, we kinda know that. Why? Loathing of paperwork -- mainly. And there's some pretty good dads in this troop. I don't want them crowded out. The fact is, I'm kinda seeing the need to wean the troop from us "old guard." We basically nudge to give their boys longer leashes and increased outdoor activity -- putting some crazy ideas int PL's heads about neat places to hike and camp with just their 9 guys, helping the new SM filter any tripe spouted off at roundtable (e.g. "how we do it" lectures from MB-mill troops), and sharing policies regarding things like expenses and equipment. And we keep one eye on the scouts from our former troop making sure they aren't just an elitist clique. In the past few years, a lot of things did not happen with our crew because I felt I owed a lot to the ASM. I think I have a tremendous lot offer high school students who've missed out on boy scouts -- both in my community and around council and the area. And those folks have gotten short shrift in the past couple of years.

This isn't an audit. He would still list what he spent on various materials. The board will probably have it on good report that he's trustworthy. Even if it was an audit, one would have a line with the expense and footnote that the receipt was not available.

The troop Is fine with whatever scouting stuff I do. But most parents have been only involved with this troop and only for three years. So, they aren't exactly the type to question much. CP, 'round here, we don't gag our guests. They bring everything they have to offer to the table except signing the boy's book. Your point is well taken, however. The more I do of these, the less I expect to talk. I'm basically giving a template to move forward and improve upon. I'm not expecting to be on every board, as I'm hoping that other parents will be available most evenings. Why not EBORs? Well, they already have the district rep as a guest. (See there? We even let guests in as moderators!) Also, I'm more directly involved with older scouts as their crew advisor or coaching them on leading the troop. So, I would rather be helping with Eagle SMCs.

Venturers have boundary issues ... so here's one that seems to be working now, but it wouldn't hurt to get some feedback from my favorite online scouters. Last year our troop merged with another one, basically we transferred our boys' memberships to theirs. We left it up to the adults to do the same. I decided to let my registration lapse, and only keep my crew position on file downtown. So, it's only the green shirt these days ... and when asked I present myself as a guest at their meetings ... no big whoop. I'll still assist the new SM, patch notwithstanding. If a kid wants me to teach him something his patrol is weak on, fine. I'm more than happy to be that creepy old guy drawing topo maps on the backs of little kids' knuckles. But, he has to demonstrate what he knows to the PL for a sign-off. That's helped these 2nd and 3rd years move a little further along. So, since I'm not officially a member of the troop, I can be a guest on boards of reviews. That's been helpful because I think it's shown the MC's how to broaden the discussion and get a better idea of how the troop can serve these boys. Some limitations I've set for myself: I won't sit on EBoRs. I wont sit on any BoR of a boy who is also a member of my crew. Anyway, what do you think? Am I within "my rights" as an advisor ... advising scouts and parents who aren't officially in my unit? Or, does it sound like I'm dodging spirit of the GTA by trying to play a little ASM and a little MC without committing fully to either?

Some guys just can't handle laundry lists ... the CC and COR need to boil it down as follows: "YOU tell us how you are going to have fun with the boys. WE tell you how we are going to support you in that. If you don't show up at the designated time where we can make that all clear, then, yes, we will quickly move to find someone who do so." Don't worry about eggshells. As a direct contact leader, I prefer a committee who can be blunt with me. We had to make some big decisions last year, and adults who told us what stunk and what didn't saved us a lot of wasted hot air. Our new SM was taken aback by it -- especially me, but after he heard how we engaged the boys in meaningful dialogue, he apologized for misjudging me. Explained that he was sticking to his guns on some things, willing to learn on others. We moved on.

You might be in between a rock and a hard place. In our council, training records have been brought up to date (so the registrar tells us) and any person without training for his/her position by the end of the year cannot be retained on the charter in that position. So, in our scenario, aggrieved CC or COR either drops the untrained member from the roster according to the regulations. Or, as has been suggested with my young-adult ASM's, changes them to unit scouter reserve. (I can't remember if that requires sending a new adult application.) Nation-wide stats haven't been published yet, but we dropped many of our occasional ASMs and MCs because of this. @@Krampus, good luck chasing down those trained patches. Our best ASMs won't even have them sewn on.

This guy might not be one for banquets. If that's the case, reserve a court of honor or campout where the changing of the guard can be made. As far as program goes, discern how much the boys chose the locations because they had to have him there vs. they wanted to have him there. Based on that, you need to figure out if you need to toss him the "gold watch" or insist that he still needs to be part of the team. With those local camp-outs, figure out how to build in the appropriate physical challenges for the boys. SM emeritus stays at base camp, ASMs supervise the leadership corps/ venture patrol(s) as appropriate

Like most stories, maturity as a scout has a beginning, middle, end. And it repeats for each rank or position the scout holds. (Maybe it's even more cyclical than that.) We scouters are involved at the beginning by giving them a vision. ("Here's what you can do and what you may need ...") The boys are responsible for the middle. ("Alright guys! Let's go for it! I'll draw up the plan, Johnny line up the gear, Billy line up the food, etc ...") We review at the end. ("What went well? What didn't go so well? What should we do differently?") The challenge is maximizing "middle" time so that the beginnings and ends hang on something concrete.

As long as, on the back pocket, you sew a leather patch branded, "Not official, but worth every penny," What will your position be while you're there? That may influence people's answers.

My knee-jerk for any apparel the troop "gives": take up a collection from former or aging-out scouts. With our boys it's been automatic. Even if it's stuff they've bought on their own, they turned it in when they've outgrown it.

@@RememberSchiff, which brand of tires? My venturers visited the Kelly-Springfield exhibit in Cumberland museum. It would be neat to show them a scout connection (if I can find a 6th ed HB). @@Krampus, why buy a neckerchief slide when it's the one part of the uniform that boys are allowed to custom-make? Have them where their Webelos or other cub slide until they design and build their own from leather, metal, rope, or the pizza boxes that would come from the $42 otherwise spent at the scout-shop?

Did 1st class BoR last night. Favorite MB so far? Chess.

I think it has something to do with drinking espresso from a tin cup with fancy 19th century etching on the outside. :?

The MB pow-wows I attended as a scout were awesome. They were in the science building of a local college campus. Their point was for a boy to meet a counselor and learn how we could do the requirements, maybe practicing some of the skills required for the badge. (For example, in photography, we all got a crack at developing some film.) In doing that, we learned about the materials we needed to build our own lab (which many of us wound up doing), so that when we made our pinhole camera, we could develop our own film. We met a lot of our district's counselors. That made it easier, when the time came, to tell the SM who you wanted to see about earning the badge, and give the counselor a call and finish the badge. What was really and truly awesome, however, was the displays that the college's outstanding students had put together to fill the display cases in the halls of the building. (These included specimens from ecology, medicine, mathematics, etc ... intended to impress prospective students, not us scouts.) A burgeoning science geek couldn't be happier.

You've heard my hypothesis elsewhere, that one blind spot in all these timelines is the national ban in the late 1960s on anyone over 18 (barring severe disability) from participating in rank advancement. The only published language I found on this from the time was from Boy's Life saying the requirements would be too easy for adults. Perhaps it was inconceivable at the time that adults might be incompetent at timber hitches, or the mechanics of citizenship. But, maybe it was deeper than that. Maybe there was an evolving perception that adults were needed to "lead" at a more conceptual level. Tying knots and knowing birds well just wasn't "good" enough. A pity, because some of these heated environmental debates could be communicated more readily give by a common grasp of ornithology. Clearly the prevailing notion is that boys can't learn leadership from a conceptual level. (Actually, I think it's more that they won't sit for hours straight being lectured at, bless them.) Therefore to some scoutcraft is a necessary evil, a means to and end. Not necessarily an end itself.

I haven't had the opportunity, but with the venturers I wanted to share "The Gods Must Be Crazy".

When our CO was in a tight spot, the troop offered to contribute toward the light and heat bill. They declined, noting that they had a full food pantry and several nice Eagle projects on the grounds thanks to us.

Second hint: get the best de chief a troop can offer for your Webelos den.

One hint: at wood badge make the Webelo-ree (or follow-up afterword) part of your ticket. It will consume a lot of your time and you will need to be managing goals and objectives anyway. You'll have plenty of time to sort the details out during your training weekends, so don't feel like you have to have a complete plan going in. But by thinking of Woodbadge as a synergistic tool rather than one more set of tasks, you will keep the chaos of life to a minimum.

Durn it! @@jpstodwftexas, that was supposed to be a +1. Sorry for the thumb fail. I've always felt that the U.S. traditional/national dress was denims and a flannel shirt. (Possibly including a tool belt.) The old Arabs and Turks used to dread when their kids would start wearing them ... a sure sign of Westernization and the accompanying rot to come.

Welcome! What happened to you and your buddy was pretty much how I got my crew advisor patch. I'm not much for graphics, so just imagine a Steelers fan wearing a proud Sooner Boomer parent t-shirt right now. (I know those are fighting words in some parts of your state, but full disclosure ... )