qwazse

If we were to do anything close to this, I see it happening on an ad hoc basis. SM: "Hey PL, I have this project that will stretch over the next four camp-outs. QM is furious that your patrol mess kit is coming back the most vile and repugnant. I know it's because you all get so involved with cranking out those Crepes Suzette, that you loose track of the time needed to break camp. But can one of your boys take point on gear clean-up so that the SPL and I don't have to hear the QM spit nails?" PL: "Well sir, Johnny Firstclass was just asking me about open troop positions, but we filled them all at our last PLC. Can he be like a patrol QM? I know you don't like doling out patrol PoRs, but maybe you can make it his project to whip us into shape so that we can be the pride of the troop in polished plates as well as pleased palates!" SM: "Very well, send him to me for a conference and I'll line up a project plan."

SMs say the darndest things ... Naw. zuzyson is not in real danger ... unless the incomplete dissemination of his last-minute memo somehow resulted in an open candy bar at the bottom of his sleeping bag in the middle of bear country! His rank advancement is not in jeopardy either. It's just a lesson learned along the way that he can bring up in his board of review. He could even write it in his workbook evaluation: Last-minute E-mails weren't checked for completeness of recipient list, leaving some participants to feel left out of redundant communications. Call it poor leadership or poor management ... he still showed leadership. He should fill out all of the paperwork now while it's fresh in his memory. Oh, and congratulations to zuzyson for a job well done ... and make sure he checks all of his gear for smell-ables before his next back-country hike.

You forgot the cost of the servers and maintenance, which increases greatly per download. Then there is the offloaded cost ... Pray tell, who is going to pay for each scouter's paper and ink? Or, their electronic device? I'd rather a scouter buy more tarps and rope. At roundtable there is a constant demand for printed material. And the folks who demand it are pretty good scouters who "don't do E-mail." Our precious forum that looks things up online ... That represents a minority of scouters. It's convenient for us 'cause we have IT for business or entertaining ourselves. Not everyone is in that bubble.

FWIW "Tech education" and "Computer project" sound like two different things. I know beneficiaries of all kinds are asking for help with both. Scouts can do great things with these projects, but ... I am concerned that our cycles of teaching boys that management=leadership can make a mess of projects like these. When your buddies have to paint a wall, and you get them all started (procuring gear, prepping, painting) it's pretty obvious when you can chip in a little muscle and come-along-side and lead the project. A boy learns quickly that "good management" will only get him so far. And, when he's done, it's pretty obvious for the beneficiary to know the job's done. With tech projects, the scope can be ambiguous. Who picks up which task next is not always obvious. Closing communication loops can happen via multiple media and nobody's settled on which one everyone should attend to. So, the memo gets missed. It's not clear where the scout really needs to lead. I'd never ban a scout from taking on such a project, but I'd certainly let him know how it might not be as easy as he thinks.

I'm not gonna tell you how to run your troop and what to count and not count. Just gonna reiterate ... Ad far as I'm concerned, boys can read. Ask them what they want to do for their PoR.

If it's not a boy in your unit, I think a call to the district advancement chair might be useful. That in itself should get back to the SM that someone is going off reservation. Clearly, what you don't want is this to fester until the BoR. Physical presence is still important, as is accountability.

That's a really important discussion to have at the 1st class SMC and BoR.

Ain't socialism great?Why would your estimated 90% of scouters who don't buy these books want to underwrite the cost for the 10% who do? If I'm running a cub or venturing program, why would I want to pay for a troop leader's handbook? People throw around GTA and G2SS quotes because those publications have information that impacts virtually every program, and essential material is consolidated there. The insignia guide? Not so much because most folks function nicely without it. I do think, however, BSA would do just as well with a print-on-demand service.

I find that, even for required badges, gear tends to get mothballed, so always proceed with caution when collecting it. Some things I recall seeing: Orienteerinng: compass and map sets, plus wide game kits. Cooking: mess kits with recipe books and kitchen instructions (if you use, for example, the CO's kitchen). Lifesaving: floats and ropes kits. Fishing: tackle box with local game charts. Shooting sports: cardboard cut-outs of 10x scale gun sights. Camping and hiking: public trail maps.

Once upon a time, there was this http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Bookbinding

We don't. For a while, it was because we had a one-patrol troop. When we were larger, it's because we haven't seen the need for them. The boys seemed to help each other well enough to keep having fun! I think Son #2's college roommate was in a troop who used them to good effect. No details, though.

Oh, I probably blew it out of proportion.Although, I do think the stuff that gets us to step out and lead is the same stuff that worries us when we see it in our kids. Regardless, asking a boy why he does anything is usually an exercise in futility.

Seriously, I could not tell son #2 one thing about leadership. He had what he figured was his style and by golly he was gonna use it. And he never watch a single episode of McChale's Navy! When he became SPL, I begged SM "For all that is right and holy, don't put me in the middle, but please take him down a peg!" Nope, he was working great with the troop. Boys were getting taken care of. The lazy ones were nudged along, the angry ones were contained, the ADD ones called to earth, and the weak ones were respected. If something didn't get done he owned it. SM was happy.

Let's give this some thought @@blw2, son wittily puts himself out there with off-the-wall remarks. Wonder where that came from. Lighten up. If you can't handle your kid being a snot, tell someone else's dad to keep one eye on him for you and leave the room. Apologize to your son right now for busting his chops, and tell him you'll try to do better next time. In our troop, we make a pact, that we'll not run herd on our own boys. Sometimes we actually assign each other our kids. That way, they know when the assigned Mr. X leaves his coffee mug to convey some sense of disappointment, they have let their troop down as opposed to merely wrecking the old man's ego.

Oh, I've filled the role of one of those "other adults (registered or not)" for T-L BoR's as well.

Ya know? I just skip these threads after a point because at a certain point I'm so far past Cubs, and happy about it, I don't have much to offer. Then there comes along gory details of how someone is trying to turn a fun little program into a fiefdom. What Stosh said. Here's the deal. In this kind of situation, bad apples go for the top gun. Someone tells me I don't have $? I do less or do it differently. Someone tells a bad apple they don't have $s, the whole word is persecuting and it all started with the guy at the top, so he runs the program ino the ground. No matter what, it's them against the world. What's worse, the people they put out think the leader approved of all this, so they don't come and ask for help, or they do come and the leader tried to be diplomatic which sounds like he's not listening. The CC and COR need to suspend these toxic individuals. They need to find replacements. They need to do whatever sucking up they can to bring you back on. (And they need to be brutally honest with you if they have any inkling that you contributed to the problem.) Then you all need to call those parents of the lost Tigers and apologize for how things went off the rails. Not to recruit them back, just apologize 'cause nobody deserves that treatment.

Doc Silver Duck, welcome to the forums, and welcome back to scouting!

Obviously, if one is wont to see gremlins, the more one thinks, the more gremlins one will see ... Even when reading about acts of common courtesy. But, I can see if the BoR is comprised of complete strangers to both SM and scout, the notion of one introducing the other falls flat. The GTA makes no such distinction.... "... They need not be on an advancement committee or registered with the Boy Scouts of America, but they must have an understanding of the rank and the purpose and importance of the review. This holds true for Eagle boards of review held in any unit, whether troop, team, crew, or ship." (8.0.3.0-3) Welcome the occasional guest on your unit BORs!

Actually, BSA should only keep it's rules and regs. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/membership/pdf/BSA_Rules_and_Regulations.pdf Article VII. Section 2. Clause 1. (d) Boy Scout—Must be under the age of 18 and (1) have completed fifth grade and be at least 10 years old, or (2) have earned the Arrow of Light Award and be at least 10 years old, or (3) be age 11 or older. In any case, the OP knew these boys were enrolled against regulations. Others before him may or may not have known. That's not the point. The point is how to fix the mess so the boys can continue scouting with pride. That pride certainly includes the knowledge that requirements mean something.

I've operated a youth group and formerly-very-independent committee under this sort of thing. It actually works smoothly. Drop receipts off with an expense report, pick up a check. Drop deposits off, pick up an income report. Auditing is not your problem. Just sync up with the church treasurer every whip-stitch to be sure last year's surplus is carried over into the next budget year. But, it does add demand on the institution. So, the COR, IH, and Treasurer just need to understand the volume of additional transactions they're asking to manage directly. When they hear that, they might be proud to help you bear that load, or they might rush you to the bank to get you your checkbook!

A patrol of venturers is "fishy" as well, but sometimes life's simpler if we let them act like that. Sometimes it's not and can be highly disruptive to their other obligations and to the health of the crew. This kind of thing is a boots-on-the-ground decision. Show approval when it's working, respectfully ask to desist when it's not.

You know, I never thought to ask how or even if I should. It's what was done for me (and I can't remember if it was done at every rank, not just Eagle), so I passed it on. Our boards are done with the troop committee and the district rep(s) ... who sometimes is the fellow who helped the boy with his project paperwork. So, it's not like the candidate was walking into a den of strangers. He certainly didn't need my help. I just thought recognizing the magnitude of the moment is the SM's responsibility. Nobody came up to me afterword and commented about what I did -- good, bad or indifferent. So, I think this is pretty much what SM's do around here. As to how they are held, centrally or distributed to the units, I guess it's the culture. Changing it from one way to the other would be traumatic for most involved. In our parts, we are still dependent on when the district reps are available, and that is only on meeting nights a fraction of the time. I suppose folks could complain, but we wont. We're grateful for them taking time out of their schedules to come to us. So, we flex accordingly.

@@blw2, at a certain age, boys seem to need intersecting circles. So, there is their patrol, and their leadership corps, and their jamboree contingent, and their O/A chapter, (and sports and band and youth group). The trick is to make sure they are realistic with their time so that nobody feels "neglected". (Sometimes that'll mean saying no to some things.) For example, growing up, there were some Eagle projects (or certain stages of a project) where it was best to just pull from the leadership corps. So the scout would coordinate a camping weekend with just that small group. The benefit for our patrols? We picked up some skills, like cooking pizza with a patrol mess kit, that we could take back and use to "up our game" as patrol leaders. It's pretty obvious. When the young ones need help. You are PL. When bed-check is done or everyone is off to merit badge classes, you are this guy in the leadership corps. Or, maybe you're touching base with your venturing crew across the valley after clearing it with your SM.

Yep. Practice. I couldn't aim a rifle for diddly, not much better at archery, but I was gonna make for sure that I could handle any bow that I picked up. I remember coming home, pulling my brothers 20# wooden re-curve from the rafters, sifting through the arrows, adjusting the bowstring I made at camp (which meant building my own jig), and setting up a target (thanks to Dad for the hay bales and poster) at 18 yards ... just so I knew I'd be good at shorter distances. One less model plane being built, and I had a plan for my weekends and evenings. On warm days, my 100 year old grandpa would come out to smoke his stogie and we'd set up a chair so he could watch me shoot. Got the badge the following summer. As to BSA's intent on the distances, I don't think the minutes of how the requirements were made are anywhere to be found. They certainly didn't have any particular brand in mind. So, the best you could do is tell the boys taking the badge what other scouts have experienced with your collection of bows, and suggest they start practicing at 15 yards. That may mean you have to move one or two more targets back to accommodate the extra time needed at that distance.

Congratulations to your scout! And thank you for all the support you've given! Subbing for the SM, I've done it once -- based on my experience of my SM doing it for me when I was a scout. It went something like: Fellow scouters, it is my pleasure to present to you, for your review of progress towards rank, Mr. {name}, a scout in good standing with troop ### for x years, and crew ### for y years. Most recently, he has served scouting in the capacity of ___ for {unit} ###. His other formidable credentials are before you in his application, references, and project report, which I presume you have found to be in order. I trust you will enjoy your time with our scout. I'll be next door and look forward to talking to you all shortly. Yes, I wax a little formal. But, I figure the boy's SM's/ASM's have been setting the tone for a good many years. No reason to stop now.