qwazse

I understand the concern. Axes aren't part Weblos' age-appropriate activities. So, a den shouldn't bother setting up an axe yard. But does that mean that a troop can't set up the yard when Webelos are around? That a Webelos can't train under the guidance of the troop during a troop activity to use an axe? And even if the behavior is suspect. Should we encourage scouters to sweep it under the rug? Better to let folks see what happen. Somebody who cares to make a comment, and unit leaders think "Oh, add that to the things to improve upon next time." It's happened to me (with venturers who've given me permission to share pics), and I'm better and wiser for it.

Honestly, boys chopping and burning wood is the least of your concern. (Unless you're in an area with a burn ban!) Do you have releases from all the parents that it's okay to use pictures of their boys to promote the pack? I did have a pack parent who once denied such a release -- for good reason. So, no pictures that year. But, assuming parents have granted you permission. Pictures of boys chopping wood at an early age while visiting a troop are no problem.

This is how you become a happy ASM ... by letting the patrols work through their storming and norming stages. At this point in the life of the patrol (maybe a little later) I begin introducing how to make the perfect espresso.

The scout-shop had some official canvas shorts. Best wearing piece of gear I've ever had from them. If they're still issued, I'd encourage any boy-scouter to get them. With the variety of uniform socks that are available, I'm comfortable most seasons/events. These few weeks being the exception ... but I'm only venturing nowadays, so I've stopped worrying about it. My only problem: I'm now wishing they had standard issue grey canvas shorts! Of course, if you're shy about those gambs, there are the convertible canvas pants. I'm just not a fan of breakaway clothing.

@@John-in-KC Yes, I can almost remember the day we announced it to our scouts and the glint that appeared in some of their geeky little eyes! But, more seriously ... at the BoR, why don't you just ask the scout what he did in that position? I mean, if as patrol scribe he tracked $40,000 in funds for the patrols H/A budget, filed tour plans that only needed the SM's signature, pushed the guys' paperwork for multiple service projects, training expeditions, etc ... hasn't he fulfilled the spirit of the requirement?

FWIW, I really like the most recent GTA on scouting.org. It has the plain text in web pages and you can click back and forth reasonably well. Print-on-demand via a central facility includes binding, covers, etc ... sometimes as end-user-specified options. I have friends (writers, trainers and such) who swear by it. If the facility gets 100 orders, it prints that many in the same hour (minute?) ... with the mailing label on the book ... far cheaper than your own ink and paper. Probably worth waiting a day or two for delivery. I could see this as a great model for scouting. Basic html frame on the web with rudimentary sidebar navigation. At the bottom, a "Click to Order" button for anyone who needs hard-copy with formatted lay-outs, graphics, etc ...

Troop Webmaster? Even so, back in my day, there were several guys who knew how to get garden spiders to crank out the silk!

Makes no difference. It's the attitude of the advisors and what they expect from their venturers. I expect my crew to help their youngn's (GS. or BS. or other). If they're not, I don't have time for them. The undesired behavior can appear in venture patrols. (Going off to H/As, never camping with the troop, etc ...) But, at least if they get all elitist on you, you won't have wasted much in terms of paperwork, specific training, etc ... I've reiterated this again and again ... unless there's a compelling need in a community for youth beyond the boys in your troop to be engaged in this level of scouting and leaders (youth and adult) with the vision to bring it to pass ... don't bother forming the crew.

If we were to do anything close to this, I see it happening on an ad hoc basis. SM: "Hey PL, I have this project that will stretch over the next four camp-outs. QM is furious that your patrol mess kit is coming back the most vile and repugnant. I know it's because you all get so involved with cranking out those Crepes Suzette, that you loose track of the time needed to break camp. But can one of your boys take point on gear clean-up so that the SPL and I don't have to hear the QM spit nails?" PL: "Well sir, Johnny Firstclass was just asking me about open troop positions, but we filled them all at our last PLC. Can he be like a patrol QM? I know you don't like doling out patrol PoRs, but maybe you can make it his project to whip us into shape so that we can be the pride of the troop in polished plates as well as pleased palates!" SM: "Very well, send him to me for a conference and I'll line up a project plan."

SMs say the darndest things ... Naw. zuzyson is not in real danger ... unless the incomplete dissemination of his last-minute memo somehow resulted in an open candy bar at the bottom of his sleeping bag in the middle of bear country! His rank advancement is not in jeopardy either. It's just a lesson learned along the way that he can bring up in his board of review. He could even write it in his workbook evaluation: Last-minute E-mails weren't checked for completeness of recipient list, leaving some participants to feel left out of redundant communications. Call it poor leadership or poor management ... he still showed leadership. He should fill out all of the paperwork now while it's fresh in his memory. Oh, and congratulations to zuzyson for a job well done ... and make sure he checks all of his gear for smell-ables before his next back-country hike.

You forgot the cost of the servers and maintenance, which increases greatly per download. Then there is the offloaded cost ... Pray tell, who is going to pay for each scouter's paper and ink? Or, their electronic device? I'd rather a scouter buy more tarps and rope. At roundtable there is a constant demand for printed material. And the folks who demand it are pretty good scouters who "don't do E-mail." Our precious forum that looks things up online ... That represents a minority of scouters. It's convenient for us 'cause we have IT for business or entertaining ourselves. Not everyone is in that bubble.

FWIW "Tech education" and "Computer project" sound like two different things. I know beneficiaries of all kinds are asking for help with both. Scouts can do great things with these projects, but ... I am concerned that our cycles of teaching boys that management=leadership can make a mess of projects like these. When your buddies have to paint a wall, and you get them all started (procuring gear, prepping, painting) it's pretty obvious when you can chip in a little muscle and come-along-side and lead the project. A boy learns quickly that "good management" will only get him so far. And, when he's done, it's pretty obvious for the beneficiary to know the job's done. With tech projects, the scope can be ambiguous. Who picks up which task next is not always obvious. Closing communication loops can happen via multiple media and nobody's settled on which one everyone should attend to. So, the memo gets missed. It's not clear where the scout really needs to lead. I'd never ban a scout from taking on such a project, but I'd certainly let him know how it might not be as easy as he thinks.

I'm not gonna tell you how to run your troop and what to count and not count. Just gonna reiterate ... Ad far as I'm concerned, boys can read. Ask them what they want to do for their PoR.

If it's not a boy in your unit, I think a call to the district advancement chair might be useful. That in itself should get back to the SM that someone is going off reservation. Clearly, what you don't want is this to fester until the BoR. Physical presence is still important, as is accountability.

That's a really important discussion to have at the 1st class SMC and BoR.

Ain't socialism great?Why would your estimated 90% of scouters who don't buy these books want to underwrite the cost for the 10% who do? If I'm running a cub or venturing program, why would I want to pay for a troop leader's handbook? People throw around GTA and G2SS quotes because those publications have information that impacts virtually every program, and essential material is consolidated there. The insignia guide? Not so much because most folks function nicely without it. I do think, however, BSA would do just as well with a print-on-demand service.

I find that, even for required badges, gear tends to get mothballed, so always proceed with caution when collecting it. Some things I recall seeing: Orienteerinng: compass and map sets, plus wide game kits. Cooking: mess kits with recipe books and kitchen instructions (if you use, for example, the CO's kitchen). Lifesaving: floats and ropes kits. Fishing: tackle box with local game charts. Shooting sports: cardboard cut-outs of 10x scale gun sights. Camping and hiking: public trail maps.

Once upon a time, there was this http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Bookbinding

We don't. For a while, it was because we had a one-patrol troop. When we were larger, it's because we haven't seen the need for them. The boys seemed to help each other well enough to keep having fun! I think Son #2's college roommate was in a troop who used them to good effect. No details, though.

Oh, I probably blew it out of proportion.Although, I do think the stuff that gets us to step out and lead is the same stuff that worries us when we see it in our kids. Regardless, asking a boy why he does anything is usually an exercise in futility.

Seriously, I could not tell son #2 one thing about leadership. He had what he figured was his style and by golly he was gonna use it. And he never watch a single episode of McChale's Navy! When he became SPL, I begged SM "For all that is right and holy, don't put me in the middle, but please take him down a peg!" Nope, he was working great with the troop. Boys were getting taken care of. The lazy ones were nudged along, the angry ones were contained, the ADD ones called to earth, and the weak ones were respected. If something didn't get done he owned it. SM was happy.

Let's give this some thought @@blw2, son wittily puts himself out there with off-the-wall remarks. Wonder where that came from. Lighten up. If you can't handle your kid being a snot, tell someone else's dad to keep one eye on him for you and leave the room. Apologize to your son right now for busting his chops, and tell him you'll try to do better next time. In our troop, we make a pact, that we'll not run herd on our own boys. Sometimes we actually assign each other our kids. That way, they know when the assigned Mr. X leaves his coffee mug to convey some sense of disappointment, they have let their troop down as opposed to merely wrecking the old man's ego.

Oh, I've filled the role of one of those "other adults (registered or not)" for T-L BoR's as well.

Ya know? I just skip these threads after a point because at a certain point I'm so far past Cubs, and happy about it, I don't have much to offer. Then there comes along gory details of how someone is trying to turn a fun little program into a fiefdom. What Stosh said. Here's the deal. In this kind of situation, bad apples go for the top gun. Someone tells me I don't have $? I do less or do it differently. Someone tells a bad apple they don't have $s, the whole word is persecuting and it all started with the guy at the top, so he runs the program ino the ground. No matter what, it's them against the world. What's worse, the people they put out think the leader approved of all this, so they don't come and ask for help, or they do come and the leader tried to be diplomatic which sounds like he's not listening. The CC and COR need to suspend these toxic individuals. They need to find replacements. They need to do whatever sucking up they can to bring you back on. (And they need to be brutally honest with you if they have any inkling that you contributed to the problem.) Then you all need to call those parents of the lost Tigers and apologize for how things went off the rails. Not to recruit them back, just apologize 'cause nobody deserves that treatment.

Doc Silver Duck, welcome to the forums, and welcome back to scouting!