qwazse

I'll quiz the boys tonight. Maybe grab a treat and candles? http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2016/02/08/bsas-106th-birthday-one-volunteer-asks-scouting-still-relevant/

I think you mean to say "AFTER he's ineligible". I'm not sure one opens the door to the other. The wording of the T2F requirements don't explicitly say "upon meeting the age eligibility requirements". That is a requirement for Scout, but before last year that badge wasn't really required to be completed before working on Tenderfoot. It stymies me why anyone wouldn't have their boys complete it, but it doesn't surprise me with that some competent Webelos who seem to be taking to this scouting stuff quiet readily, the actual age of the new boys would be overlooked. I bet this thing happens a lot and is just getting noticed because of internet advancement and someone out there comparing dates on a large scale after the fact. As far as rechartering, if it slipped by for one troop's internet recharter, it did for all of the others. I do find it odd, because the rechartering program dinged me for one of my venturers who completed 8th grade before turning 14. This was the year the rules were changed to make any 13-year-old 8th grade graduate eligible. Clearly the rule didn't make it into the computer logic's rules (which were probably hard-coded, which as @@Krampus would tell is the bane of most IT projects). To push my charter through, I had to change her birthdate. Then I corrected it on the following year's charter. Makes me wonder if someone fudged the 9/10 y.o. kid's DoB when rechartering during his first year.

Yep. At 21 seconds.In the "4x4ever" spot (in the 4th quarter, go figure): https://youtu.be/pOiiPxb-Gbw?t=21s IMHO they won the Super Bowl add race with that and their "Portraits" spot in the first half.

That's precisely why the call to National. This wouldn't be their first rodeo. But I'm figuring one doesn't adjust any of the requirement sign-off dates except boards of review. The PL saw the boy do the requirements. SM had a conference. The boards approved everything, albeit prematurely. I suspect they'd shift the dates for T2F to a month after eligibility; Star, 5 months after eligibility, Life 11 months after eligibility. Or, they might not shift anything except the date of the Life BoR -- since that rank has yet to be conferred. One would be hard pressed to argue that he could not sharpen an axe and knife safely at age 10 if he demonstrated sharpening a knife and axe then, and seems to have not forgotten any of it in the interim.

naw. The handbook is all the writing you need.What you're really getting from national is how to correct things on advancement reports (rank, MB completion dates) so it won't confound a future Eagle application (be that next year, or six years from now).

Can't speak to the program itself. But from time to time at every level of scouting we come across leaders who seem a little generous with bling. Some dens are exceptional. It's not that any given meeting is particularly efficient. The boys have so much fun and the parents enjoy each other enough that they commit an extra evening or parts of every weekend to make it happen. (That was very much Son #1s experience.) The only way you'll know if this is the case is via discrete conversations with parents and Cubs. You should already be doing this because based on your other threads you'd like a new Wolf DL. As far as doing anything about what's already awarded, that's probably water over the dam.

I honestly don't feel my Eagle is sullied because I only had six years in which to earn it while some other kid had eight.But then again, I don't think there should be any upper age limit on earning it. And I would look forward to a kid like this taking on the responsibility of making sure his ASMs (who may have forgotten or never learned a few scout skills) are all first class scouters. I suppose @@Krampus is right. Someone's gonna cry foul at this. Even if the boy is the total package. So, make sure your DE runs this up the chain so that he/she hears from National about how you should handle this.

I'm playing on words here. Most of us will be involved in some type scout Sunday/Sabbath or other scouting community recognition this week or later this month. I'm not so interested in how you observed it. (Although if you felt your youth did something that you think others might want to replicate, let's hear it!) Rather, what of interest -- grand or humble -- did you see happen? Of course, I'll start ... Yesterday I attended a luncheon event for pastors and board members who have congregants particularly interested in long term service. This was not a closed-door gathering, but by nature of the focus, doesn't draw a big crowd (older, planning and development types, not the "lets just have a party" types). However, the two youngest people in the room happened to be former venturers of mine. I'm not saying that non-scouts wouldn't take interest in this stuff, and there are obviously plenty of scouts of mine who would have zero interest. But, by virtue of having camped and hiked a lot with a lot of kids, and following them as they slogged through college, etc ... I had a good idea of who would be right for a particular specialty. Other folk would be limited to posting some announcement in their bulletin without much clue as to who would likely join them. As it was, these two took their seat at the table around some tremendous individuals and held their own quite nicely. Although no uniforms were involved, I think that's what what we're trying to do with scout week ... Help our youth envision how what we're doing fits in with what they may do for God and Country down the road. Your turn ...

Our most recent configuration: 1) one checkbook, one person can issue them. (We do have the requisite back-up signers. But they don't carry a checkbook.) 2) No petty cash unless it's relevant to the activity. (E.g., patrols get some cash because their hike takes them by a general store, where they will reprovision.) 3) no debit cards. Everyone is fine putting stuff on their personal charge and turning in receipts for reimbursement. This demands that the treasurer be available for folks on a regular basis. Monthly reports of receipts, expenditures, are critical for committee minutes. And motions for expenditures should be easily identifyable in the minutes for good auditing. (e.g., a good ledger entry would be: 2/15/'16 $200 to XYZ Council, per January meeting, see minutes, motion #3.) Actual audits are extremely rare, our treasurer audited herself better than we ever would, but she insisted having related documentation and clear motions befor she drafted a check.

@@Oldscout448, I wish that problem was just yours and the last time it happened was 15 years ago. We've had a couple young men wash up on our doorstep for that very reason. Thanks for the kind words, nice to know I lived up to that "Advisor" patch. The next time some venturer talks back to me, I'll warn him/her to not take my advice lightly, 'cause out on the other side of the Internet, some 448 old scout has my pontifications tacked over his desk.

"A scout who refuses to do his job" is not holding his position. There is nothing to be impeached about. If I say "Take care of your boys." And a PL says, "That's stupid! No way am I doing that!" On the day he says it he no longer holds that position. The day a boy takes that to heart, no matter the patch on his sleeve is the day he assumes that position. Fact is. I've never met a scout like that. - I met scouts that are coached poorly and perform accordingly. - I met scouts who don't listen too well and perform accordingly. - I met scouts who are a little lazy and selfish and it comes back to bite them. - I met scouts who don't understand leadership and go all drill instructor, and become the brunt of jokes for years after, bless them. No, a patrol or troop doesn't have a "right" to impeach boys like that. They do have the right to ask them to do better or leave. Most boys shape up. Some realize they are in over their head, and pass the baton to the guy who they think is ready for the job. A few months later they come back ready to serve, if needed. Accuse me of having a low bar. But if you are performing your position a little better each month from the day you started, I'm happy. And really, most of the boys are happy too. Boys who don't improve leave their position on the table. Most of the time they find a position that suits them. Sometimes they quit scouting.

That's a decent plan. What we're talking about really, is waiting until 11 years 10 months (or, if he earned AoL 10 years 10 months) to confer Life Rank. I'd buy it ... if you sincerely believe at his 11th (or 10th) birthday the boy was first class (the concept not the patch). Most boys don't have a problem with that sort of thing. But, then again, it doesn't sound like most boys. So, when you advise them, be prepared to challenge them. Maybe while they wait, they should try to earn a STEM or Hornaday award. Or, discuss with them about religious awards. A quick talk with the SM might give you an idea of what's best to suggest for each boy and would be the most fun for the troop to go along with.

Add to the themes: one camporee was a canoe trip. Hasn't been done for a dozen years because the advisor who organized it was thrown so many paperwork hurdles (under the guise of G2SS), he said "never again", but I bet some of you would be up for it.

The boys got skills? Worst case scenario: They would have to wait until 12 years old and some change to get Eagle. Let your DE know about the gaff, and talk to the Pack who's feeding you these youngn's. Your biggest problem will be keeping these boys engaged over the next few years.

{begin rant} You say "modified", I say abandoned . .... Reference, Learn, Do, Teach -- what a great way to master a skill! Doesn't need an acronym. Makes sense. Easily translated into any known language. {rant over} Anyway, Ed, one more idea, while you still have a relatively small group of boys to work with ... when you talk about how you want things to operate, I find it's best to get every scout sat in a circle. No tables or desks or other scouts to hide behind. Just the them and the SM on the same level. You could: Apologize that you're in a bind with the backlog of conferences that you'd like to have with the scouts. (Sure, it's not not your fault.) Say you're going to catch up, but you want to start conferencing with the scouts who everyone agrees are most sure they are ready for the rank they will be awarded. Pass a rope around and give each boy a chance to tie a knot that you think they should know. Or orient a map or set a compass bearing. Or some other skill. If a boy isn't confident that he can do the skill, ask him to get help from the scout beside him. If that scout isn't sure, ask him move beside a scout who he knows can help him. Hopefully, this will identify the boy(s) who everyone knows has mastered the skills commensurate with his next rank. That's who will get the next SMC for rank advancement. Don't be negative. Just point out that they earn a rank when they know each skill well enough that other scouts trust them to be their teachers. Ask them what they think should be done a bout a signature in the book if a scout can't teach the skills he was signed off on. These are just some ideas. You know your boys better than we do. But often times, the way we allow meetings to run creates a "distance" that boys hide behind. Try to reduce that distance until the boys have their own smaller patrols with leaders whom they identified could help them go hiking and camping independently.

I'm sorry if I implied that your SMC should be a retest. But it sounds like you have your doubts about how some boys got their sign-offs. You should find a way to express what you expect from boys before they sign off. It's a new year. Your boys need to elect who among them they think will help train and vouch for every 6-8 of them. These boys will have to be the most trustworthy and helpful (or become that way real fast). So, it's time to choose wisely. No longer should you accept adult sign-offs, camp staff sign offs, time lord or other super-sentiment life form sign offs for scout skills. If it's not a PL's signature in the handbook, it doesn't count. Train your PLs to only accept demonstration the week after they teach the skill. If it's a knot they havent mastered themselves they can practice it together and demonstrate it. Any scout who feels upset that they have to recertifying with their PL can simply demonstrate all the skills he should have mastered right before starting his conference with you.

No quota system or formal vetting or vote, but not "any warm body" either. Those who do best as direct contact leaders are ASMs. Those who do best mobilizing our parents as needed, MCs. For new adults: It's pretty obvious who is who after a campout or two. SM makes recommendations to CC and COR they invite the new person to come on board. We accept paperwork first, then give them until recharter to get trained. Former SM's don't disappear. They demote to ASM. Practically, they are SM-emeritus. From my reading here, others have found this a source of friction. We haven't. Knowing how it feels to be "the guy", these gentlemen understand where and how to assist. It used to be any willing former SPL/JASM would be promoted to ASM at age 18. (One day of those young men's time is invaluable -- at the risk of some shortcomings in maturity.) Now, with the PA state clearance mandates, that's trickled off. Troops similar to ours have had young female ASMs ... they are usually mentored closely because they haven't come up through the program or brought their own boys up through cubs. But, soon they come on strong and do well.

I think it is pretty important for the SM to handle those T2F rank conferences. It's your best chance to touch base with each boy as he's growing. Your previous experience is all the more reason to have the conferences where a kid can go back and master the skill. Campouts are ideal for that sort of thing. Meeting, not so much. The boys need to know that their conference is not complete if they haven't mastered the skills.

Steelers fan here. So I get how we have to make adjustments for such things. (And kinda wishing I was in a similar bind ) But this one is so simple. Arrange for 3 committee members to come camping with you all on your next overnight. Boys who have been waiting for SMCs and BoRs may request them that weekend, and you will schedule them throughout the day. Scouts not attending the campout may schedule SMCs and BoRs during the standard time available at your regular meetings on a first-come, first-serve basis. If you don't mind setting aside liquor and cigars, you all could also schedule a Superbowl party with the scouts. Oh, and congratulations to the boys for getting so much work done in the off-season.

I remember setting up our klondike sleds in the bank display window. So much fun playing "mannequin" when you saw your friends walk by ...

@@SlowDerbyRacer, I sort of agree. But, now is the time to start warming up next year's leaders. DL hates bureaucracy. Fine, then get a tiger parent who will help manage it for her. The reason this is important? As the boys get older and the program gets more complex, being mavericky is a non-starter. She's gonna hit a wall.

First, never take this stuff personally. If a DL wants to go off the rails (but the boys are otherwise safe), there is no amount of training or correction you can do to stop it. Never, ever, feel stupid. We're all learning here. Clearly, you need to listen to your parents more. You don't have to agree with them. You just need to better understand what they're thinking. Then, you might want to ask the least disagreeable parent to step up as Wolf DL! That parent (if you identify him/her) will start by participating in the leader's skit and dispensing awards at the B&G. The uniforming thing ... you need to talk to parents about how they feel. Some den parents are fine with a tight ship. As a parent I pushed back on any over-policing. (Partly because I knew finer points. Partly because I knew what would be no problem for us could be a hardship for others.) Your troop's SM needs to understand that there are personality conflicts that may be driving why few crossovers come his way.

Thanks for sharing. Wouldn't it be lovely if those two eventually join this forum and tell us about the "real" 'skip?

We love our pro's! Welcome.

Honestly, our best MC's are the ones who come camp with us (or even visit for a few hours) and observe how things operate. When the boys are at their best, we really enjoy your company, 'cause there's nothing else to do. When they are at their worst (happens when you take on bad kids) it's nice to have the committee there for backup.