qwazse

Our troop always goes to HR (this week, same campsite every year). They love the patrol cooking (on propane stoves) in Camp Liberty. Other troops love the dining hall in Camp Freedom. (It's a big hall, seats maybe 500.) Both camps have freshwater aquatics areas. Big lake, very hungry bass and bluegill. Decent canvas wall tents on wood platforms. Very wooded. (I've met scouts from Michigan hiking in similar parts of PA for the weekend, so I know they like it here.) Ground a little rocky. Latrines and running water in each site. Shower houses not too far of a walk. Enthusiastic staff. (The current Res Director used to be my SPL, but that's not biasing my report. ) For the 12 who just want to do MB's, it's not a bad program, but I bet no different than SOAR. Our scouts enjoyed the cope and climbing and shotgun range a lot.

The following reply may come off as surly and ill-tempered because the troop is at camp this week and I am not. So, when a PL invites you to be a guest at their table, you're gonna snub him? In some parts, those are fighting words. Show from afar? Like 100 yards? What on earth do you think they are gonna learn from that distance? Do you also teach knots that way? (Yes I know that has nothing to do with you're situation that you envision, but there is no reason this thread should be immune from our passion for hyperbole. ) Honestly, our boys never mind setting out another plate or two. I often show up at table with espresso (which the oldest scouts don't mind) and candy-coated almonds or some other ethnic treat (which the younger scouts don't mind, even if their curiosity has not yet overcome their fear of the unknown). We share some chit-chat. If the boys are talking full tilt on their own, I assume fly-on-the-wall position ... only speaking when spoken to. Then at meals end, I line up to clean my plate, porcelain demitasse cups, and gay-floral-pattern silverware, ask permission to stow it in their box if I'm scheduled to join them for the next meal. Then I return to my chair at the adult's camp and offer the old goats cold dregs if any are left in my pot.

Maybe BSA, by way of clearer language, should move "God and my Country" towards the end of the Oath, somewhere after the line that says "and to the supremacy of advancement and its guide to the same."

"Why?" Is never a simple question. Especially for strangers who don't know you, your husband, or your fellow scouters. I know one boy whose grandparent custodians wouldn't let him join our troop because the father would insist on participating with the son, and they were certain that would not be in the boy's interest. The boy is growing strong and good in spite of missing out on scouting. But I still try to think if there was a way we could have made that work. Sometimes we are trying to sort between bad and less bad. Your fellow scouters had to pick one of you. Had they chosen you, we might be replying to the boy's dad right now, who might be asking why he should be "punished." In light of the charges, did they choose poorly? Maybe. I'm sure the pack's sponsor would like to know about that. Your council scout executive might be able to help find a way for your boy to enjoy scouting while keeping your ex away from you, but if I were you, I would contact the SE without expecting much in terms of favorable resolution.

If you awaken me from my slumber just because some scouts are returning to camp, I'll be the one throwing the fit!

The definition of "unchurched" can be a little fuzzy. Suppose you have a secular Jewish family who gave up on synagogue but the the kid is going to the mosque every Friday for prayers. (This is America, after all.) if you don't like that configuration pick any hypothetical where the family could claim an affiliation on cultural grounds, but the kid is doing something different ... But nothing is official. I'm sure you've had one or two of these. I call them the gyrochurched, because they are switching around a lot.

Once again, I +ed instead of -ed. Happy anniversary and enjoy the ride to the burger drive-through!

Oh, no! If you just reply in this one, somebody will quote you in the other!Well, if Duty to God and Country trumps advancement, my position should be unmoved if a scout has to wait until he's fulfilled those duties to start racking up service hours. I've had a bevy of venturers who were First Class scouts without the patch, so why should I be bothered the case is true for some boys with a distinctive CO? But as you can see scouters around the country are consuming large amounts of popcorn (and, one infers, oil and butter) reading this. Think of the bump in ethanol price, right before we are about to drive off to camp. P.S. Happy Father's Day!

Okay David, @@Stosh and I are about to derail another thread about this. So even more clarification please ... Does this impact grades 6 through 8 or just 8th grade? Are service hours for lower ranks in play here are just Eagle projects (because that's what pressured a 17 year old scout to put his soul in jeopardy once upon a time in the chronicles of your unit)?

Well it wouldn't be he first time I've read a policy charitably. That's my mode of operating. Rather that than ask for a rule! The original post was with respect to Eagle projects. So I took it to mean that many 8th graders would have made upper ranks by then. On the other hand, bean-counting service hours for the first few ranks is fairly new. So maybe BSA moved these scouts into the nuisance. Popes as peacemakers, what have they been reading?

Wow, Luther, just pound those 95 theses!Before anyone rants at the absurd context, the policy as described in by the other thread is to suspend service projects for a few months. Poor little 8th grader if he's taken two years to advance to Scout and can't take the heat because he has to wait until the end of the term.

I can't recall a single family in our CO joining that church through scouting. (I can think of one who left due to conflicts within scouting that forced the IH's hand.)That said, for sponsoring scouting units, the CO is highly regarded in our community. i have not found that to be the case. They don't want to be shouted at from a street corner (most days). They do want a friend who they trust living out their faith and occasionally inviting them to join in. WWJD? Most days: Hiking, camping, sailing.

Scouts in the Laurel Highlands Council area may want to invite http://www.themilktruck.org/milkmap/to their next CoH ... Or maybe family night?

Imagine a 17 year old with all Eagle requirements but Camping MB with a creep total 19 camping nights and his birthday is on Sunday the CO's sabbath restriction suddenly becomes a barrier to advancement ... Duty to God: through his appointees in whom your parents entrusted you, He commands you to not count any service for several months during your 13th or 14th year of life toward advancement. Duty to Country: this nation needing competent workers, it is your duty to adhere to an academic regimen approved of by your parents. This regimen may require periods where certain extracurricular activities are suspended .., the suspension of which may delay your advancement. Put that against "Hey kid, Michael DeLoVecchio says it's cool. grab your shovel." How the boys feel? Inconvenienced, I suppose. Some may feel demoralized. But, boys come to me constantly feeling that way. I don't go marching into their lives all mother-bear at whatever institution is putting them to task. Plan A has a roadblock? Okay find a plan B! Apply the 8th point of the Scout Law and move forward.

Presbyterians (the COs with whom I have most experience) interpret "religious affiliation" quite broadly. So this has not been an issue that I've observed. However, I have heard this brought up and roundtable re: EBoRs. So there must be some troops that reckon this way. No idea if the practice came from the CO or committee. My church (through its youth ministry) actively seeks out unaffiliated youth. (Those of Christian upbringing make the worst converts!) This may be one of the reasons they are hesitant to sponsor a pack or troop. The membership policy strikes them as a veneer of religiousess. The BSA is rife with precisely the duplicity similar to that which has made them recently change denominations. Therefore, I'm inclined to prefer youth who do not profess membership in a religion. (Although I try not to find fault with those who do.)

There's password encryption. Which if a fella isn't using in this day and age, he's got bigger problems. As far as physical security. Leaving it in a locked car is a possibility -- although that doesn't eliminate smash 'n grab. That's what I did. It added 1/2 mile walk to my day, but was pretty much worth it. A cable lock around a tree is a possibility ... If you weren't surrounded by boys with saws and axes!

It seemed clear from the outset that his CO's policy applied across the board. It's quite simple to me. Does duty to God trump your troop's implementation of any of the methods of scouting? I would answer in the affirmative. Can a CO lay out what the duty is? There are plenty of instances where it has. (Not camping on Sabbath or Sunday, keeping kosher, etc ...) Can it apply that broadly? It can and it has. (E.g., a Jewish buddy sat with his grandson on the steps of a church while the troop attended the mass his troop was required to do if they were traveling on a Sunday.) Does academic work trump scouting activities? As a duty to country, it can and it has. (Educators have come on this forum and asked as much regarding troubled youth.) Rank advancement is not the be-all and end-all that we sometimes make it out to be. And, frankly, any scout who hasn't knocked off the requisite service hours before the middle of 8th grade can wait a few months. Now, if the CO as zealously treated a 17 year old life scout who transferred in never confirmed, we might have something to write about!

The same happened with my troop. SM was a tough act to follow. It's much easier to start a new troop with a different CO. I've since met some "next generation" scouts from my home town, and they are coming up strong and good. So, it kind of balances out in the long run.

Unlike @@Beavah, I'll play "saint's advocate" and step into the parsing regs to see if, in rules as written, a CO has latitude in terms of scheduling service projects: I could envision a Christian CO determining that a boy is on "the wrong track" if he has not fulfilled his religious duty. That they may want to see a boy's demonstration of service that carries no awards, is not logged in troop-master, or some national database for someone's bragging rights. That service to the LORD in concert with other young people doing the same for a proscribed period trumps service to any other beneficiary. That a boy to proceeding on an Eagle project without the explicit blessing of the CO is intrinsically a "negative experience." Therefore; to ensure that "Test #5" is met for all of its youth, the CO might impose scheduling constraints. In their mind, it would be fulfilling, rather than adding to, the requirements. No sixth test needed. Now, against all protests that the language of that test was only intended to reflect upon the execution of the project, we also have that 12th point of the Scout Law, and someone who holds a faith that is explicitly or implicitly catholic (i.e. universal) would necessarily make scouting fit into their religious framework, not the other way around.

Ouch! This is where a detailed conversation with your doctor (i.e. the orthopedist, not your family doctor) is important. No bone bruise is the same. And timing is everything. Your husband needs to precisely describe the camp situation with the doctor. In general, staffers do whatever they can to make injured scouts enjoy their time. Your son will probably get dibs on the bench at the trading post, etc ... Also, patrols will do whatever it takes to help their buddy. That might include carrying a folding chair and footrest for him. Setting up a hammock for him. Getting ice. Etc ... If this is the first injury he's had to recover from, one of the ASM's might have to keep an eye on him to make sure he's not pushing himself. Usually after a day, a boy will get an idea of how much shenanigans is/is not permitted. If your son is the generally compliant sort, this wont be an issue. Generally speaking, most high-school boys find camp to be more restful than home. All the best to your son!

@@Hedgehog, that was just by way of example. What you want to make clear to the boy is that there is no boiler-plate way to get this done. Thus, giving him a POR patch will not help him have reasonable goals. But devising a project with measurable goals will. Obviously, the more that those goals are self-designed, the more likely they are to be implemented.

@@Hedgehog, the more I hear about your situation, the more I think "service project." Your boys have shunned the system where a TG would share direct contact with the first-years. You want the PL/APL to care, but they have a bunch of other tasks that they find more engaging. You have a boy who you are trying to fit into a position, to whom you could just as easily fit a project. A TG pulling the first-years aside from each patrol, might disrupt the PL's agenda. (The PL might not describe it as such. He might not even be bothered by it. But that's immaterial.) But, patrols being challenged to benchmark skills acquisition of T2FC boys might help them perform to your satisfaction. So, maybe here is how the project plays out: Tell him the troop could use a 2016 trail to 1st class poster ... basically some large-rule graph paper grids.You may have to explain that, once upon a time, spreadsheets in the cloud were hard to come by. He makes a quadrant for each patrol. One row per scout (even the ones in upper ranks), one column per requirement. He finds a central location to post it. Cells get colored in as often as a scout is seen demonstrating a skill this year. (PL's responsibility to report what was done ... honor system.) He might want to use colored tacs to represent if a scout demonstrated it on one, two, or three separate occasions. A rank advancement might get a string of cells blocked in a special base color (e.g. a strip of felt or colored tape), Patrols get points based on color-weight of the cells. The SPL may receive a report on current standings. Maybe, he could take a picture of it every whip-stitch, and that becomes your troop website's home page. Maybe there's another scout who could cobble together weekly pictures of the poster to make a time-lapse of the movie of the poster amassing color! With things like these, I feel the only award needed is bragging rights. But, I think if you would like to bring the point home, a patch from your collection to the PL with the best colored grid might be in order. This keeps your scout, with the help of the SPL, putting the heat on the PL/APL and getting younger scouts to notice how what they do might fit into some bigger plan. It might motivate other scouts to demonstrate those skills just for the silly of it: "Mr. H, I did a 20 miler last weekend, can I stack 4 pins on my 2nd Class 5 mile hike?" "Did you navigate?" "No, the map was too heavy. I let Johnny carry it." "Well, grab those four pins. AND PUT 'EM ON JOHNNY's SQUARE!" For the scout in question, this gives him measurable goals in developing and implementing a chart. It allows him to interface with other leaders, and provides a concrete service to the troop. Finally, it is amenable to after-action review, which he could do with the PLC or the troop as a whole depending on his maturity. All of those are very useful activities that will prepare him for a future PoR.

DT - if a PL puts 5 miles of hiking and 10 miles of cycling on their agenda for the year, then that's two boys a year who can master those skills. Add to that most boys in our community being involved in such diverse activities that it's very easy for a number of them to miss out on the one patrol event (and related meetings) that helps them advance. Compound that by the boy falling into the troop that spun off from ours because adults didn't like how we organized boy-led, then two years later spun off from that troop for who-knows-what beef with the selected SM, then after a change in guard, re-merges with our boys ... We routinely get boys who take 4 years to advance to 1st class. We don't consider it to be a problem. That is, our old troop doesn't, but the troop that we merged back with goes to a camp that strongly encourages scouts to advance a rank a year, and holds a special ceremony for scouters who meet that target with every returning camper ... the new SM wants to make that happen (yes, I tease him mercilessly about it), this boy wants to make it happen, his PL should make it happen, and given a year probably would. We have a week, no troop guide, no JASM, ... So, at the request of the SM, I had a conversation that sounded more like a hiking MB counselor type of discussion. The boy has four days to present a plan, which even if his PL or TG had stepped up, he'd have to do anyway. But, here's this (for anyone who expects their patrol schema to facilitate advancement): at what point is a 16 year-old the responsibility of a TG or PL? The boy can read his book. He can say, "Hey guys, let's take a hike?"

There's no doubt in my mind that in mixed patrols, advancement can take a back seat. They need to work on skills acquisition. What you need to prepare your patrol for the next adventure may not mesh with what a boy needs to do for his next rank. Our troop has not had as many land navigation opportunities as I would like, so I have a 16 year old (3rd year) who is has that requirement for 2nd class and orienteering for 1st. SM would like him to complete one rank before camp next week, and I think the boy really wants to move along. So, I instructed him on a plan to find a buddy and come to me with a plan and a map and I would add some landmarks that he would reach some day this week. I could just as easily see this being handed off to a troop guide. The standing order: find the lowest rank or slowest advancing boy in each patrol, and help them plan their next move.

Does anyone have a boiler-plate E-mail explaining registration requirements for new Venturing participants age 18-20?