BadenP

vcrew66 Have you made yourself a cyber police officer and why are you looking up scouts profiles on facebook, et. al? This kinda smacks of stalking, and even if you tell on them what do think the consequences to you might be, probably not good. Teens do stupid things,use profanity, everyone who is a parent with teens knows that, while I don't condone their behavior if we scout leaders punished scouts in our troops who had done something stupid we would have very few boys left in scouting.

I think it is humorous for anyone to call themselves an expert about anything going on in National emb21, even National don't seem to know what the heck is going on. The memos, books, and references concerning Venturing and the reorg of Sea Scouts are all full of contradictions, daily revisions, and plain disorganization including the National website. So if you really think you know more than National emb 21 more power to you.

I too agree with Dean, if this isn't stopped and done quickly you will have anarchy in your pack leading to possible cancellations of events, and a number of parents who will leave the pack because of the politics. It is a lose lose situation, contact your commissioner to help you mediate a settlement, otherwise the pack could really suffer or even go under.

sdcc I think that most youth who earned air scout knots or the old sea explorer knots from the 40's or before are probably deceased or too old to be in scouting, that probably why they dropped those knots. Other knots were probably dropped because they are no longer offered or available from supply.

Eamonn, shame on you, for your penance say 3 Our Fathers and 5 hail Mary's, lol, as an ex Catholic I couldn't let that get by. As far as drinking at scout events while I was a DE my council gave annual distinguished citizen of the year banquets. At my very first one I watched as the ASE got stinking drunk then going over to the guest of honor put his hands all over her before throwing up all over her expensive gown, this was in the presence of two cub packs and one troop. Fortunately this was towards the end of the event but the woman was livid. Three months later that same ASE became an SE in a neighboring council which goes to show that even a drunken idiot can succeed in scouting. Poetic justice did prevail however and at his first dinner as SE he pulled a similiar stunt and the council executive committee called in regional the next day to remove him, which they did. Regional and National then decided he was no longer professional material and terminated his employment with the BSA after 15 years on the job. Sometimes the system does work.

Wow the world must be about to end, this is the first time I agree with Gern on a topic. Churches do get a free ride and with their constant interference with politics trying to persuade their congregations how to vote it is time that they lose their tax exempt status. There was a reason our founders wanted to keep church and state seperate and the fact is that pastors now go out of their way to breech that seperation. When I see Catholic bishops and cardinals with palacial estates, and the obscene amount of wealth in the Vatican, and then hear them preach and admonish their congregations about the poor in the world going hungry it smacks of pure hypocrisy. It is time that they share the wealth.

Restructuring at the regional level has been going on for a while now. Many tasks regional were doing was duplicating what the councils were already doing, and councils have absorbed these responsibilities as regional staff were being downsized. Only a small percentage of FOS goes to National, and as someone has pointed out it is to provide training to the the councils professional staff. The rest is to support the councils camp, salaries, maintaining scout offices, etc., at least that was the way it used to be when I was a professional years ago.

SMT read my post again I did not say Roy deserved the compensation he received, quite the opposite. As a pro my first SE was Bob Mazzuca so I also experienced what he did to our council and know what he is capable of doing in his new position, hopefully he has learned from his past mistakes, nuff said.

As a former DE myself I have to agree with scoutldr, all pay should be based on performance whether you are the Chief Scout Exec or a lowly DE. Clearly with diminishing membership and contributions during Roys tenure he hardly deserves the large packet he received, his performance would be rated substandard by any corporate measure, and it does not and should not matter how long he was a scouting pro. Quid pro quo.

Lisabob and Beavah You are the only true voices of wisdom and reason here among so many right wing rednecks spewing pure ignorance. Thank you.

Second day in office and already the blithering right wing conservatives in this forum are spouting their idiocy. You guys are all a real piece of work and not really setting a good example of what a scout leader is all about. Of course I realize some of you guys can't help it as most of your comments are usually nothing but illogical nonsense. Obama is our president for at least the next four years so get over it already.

The swearing in is nothing more than a formality not a legality, as of noon Obama was automatically the president, period, read your civics books. Gern I think the comment you made in your last post was inappropriate to say the least and in bad taste, grow up.

Have any of you read the article on Hispanic scouting at the National BSA site? They quote Rick Cronk,former BSA president as saying, "We are either going to have to find a way to make scouting appeal to hispanic youth or we are going to go out of business." So it seems according to the article National recognizes the serious dilema of dropping membership among white middle class kids which the article states makes up the vast majority of the membership. Instead of finding ways to attract these kids back to scouting they instead are creating a new culturally based program aimed just at hispanic youth. So my question is are the ideals and programs of scouting not cross culturally appealing and relevant? Apparently not according to this article. With the comments Cronk and Mazzuca are making you would think scouting in the US is a sinking ship and National is trying desperately to keep it afloat using bandaids to seal the holes. If this isn't reinventing scouting I don't know what is.

Beavah I truly believe what you state is how it should be, but the reality is thats just not how it works in the scouting world. Another way to put it maybe would be the SE is supposed to serve the best interests of the council and its board , and at the same time National expects him to keep those interests in line with the direction Irving TX wants them to go and to keep that board in line with National goals and policies. If the SE fails to do that he can forget about any chance that his next move will be to a bigger council or to National office, since National is the one who controls his future. So again Beavah I say to you who do you think REALLY is in control, no matter what it may say on paper?

Apache Bob As a District Commish you were part of the Key 3, the DE, Dist Chair, and yourself were partners so to speak to keep the district running smoothly in each of your particular areas, working together as a team, not for each other. As a former DE myself I can tell you that we choose who we want for Dist Chair, and Dist Commish when we are assigned to a district, fortunately for me my district had a strong Dist Commish who agreed to stay on. So I needed to recruit a strong Dist Chair and was lucky enough to recruit the mayor of the largest town in the district, who was very well connected in the area, and as a result we had the top district in the council for the five years I was there. So its not really a matter of who works for who but can the Key 3 work together as a team.

Beav A exec board can fire an SE for just cause like alcoholism, theft(happened to one of my SE's), but National has the power to overide council boards, but if it is not for just cause National will limit who the future candidates are for that council, because that IS controlled by National. The council is incorporated true but it is under the umbrella of the parent corporation of National and is why National can be sued along with the council. However if you ask the executive who his real boss is and who evaluates his performance it is National Office plain and simple . And you are wrong when you state that "the SE is an agent of the board not of National." The SE is an administrator for a council representing the best interests of Nationals rules and regulations, making sure the board and other volunteers are properly administering the BSA programs and council funds. Believe me Beavah this stuff was drilled into us by National during district executive training to make sure we understood very clearly who we worked for, the chain of command, etc. I was involved firsthand in this process when one of my former SE's was investigated by Regional office for embezzling funds, removed from office and the selection process of a new SE.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

scoutldr a slight correction to your first post, The SE is selected by the council exec committee from a list of candidates supplied by National, and the SE technically is an employee of National and ultimately reports to them, and he works with the exec. committee to keep everything running smooth in the council. If an executive board wants to fire an SE they must go through the National office,who will then quickly assess the situation and decide if it is warranted. If it is then they remove the SE, usually transferring him to another council, and then supply the board with a new list of candidates. In the end National is still in control of the process. The SE works with the board as a rep of National, not for the board.

jblake Back when I was a webelos leader we had the SM, SPL, and other boys from the troop came to the crossover and when the cubs crossed over the bridge one of the boy scouts took off their webelos neckerchiefs, another put on their new troop neckerchief, and the SM gave each boy a boy scout salute and presented them with their BSA handbook. The crossover was always done with style and class which both the boys and their parents really enjoyed, and the younger cubs always thought it was "really cool".

I think how well the FOS goes this year will be a good indicator. I agree though that the BSA wil be hit as hard as all the other non profits out there and I do forsee council services and staff shrinking over the next two years at least, paralleling the economy. The volunteers will have to be the ones to come up with new ideas to keep their units thriving and retaining numbers. This recession is beginning to look a whole lot bigger and longer than anyone thought it would be.

SR 540 What is with your ranting dude? I was commenting about a specific issue about a now defunct lodge as to when and if you can wear the old flap, I don't know what you are talking about bling?? that was not the issue. If you want to be Bobby's guardian angel, who knows why, then fine but the one who needs to grow up here is you with all your whining, give it a rest already.

Dean You are correct on the OA flap question and BW is incorrect once again. I agree with you as well that if BW was in my troop or crew that there would be a mass exodus, lol.

Sct Dad that is what Bob loves to do pick apart to see if he can get a rise out of you so don't jump to his condescending attitude. It sounds to me like there needs to be much better communication between your districts and council training committees, it seems to me that a few people are falling down on the job.

Bob is so wrong once again!! This was done to benefit a sick leader, not the unit so technically it was not a fundraiser and not subject to BSA rules. The fact they put their scout shirts on after the event was over is irrelevant. Bobby learn the difference between lending a helping hand and earning money to go to camp. Everything is not as black and white as Bobby seems to think, even the rules on fundraising.

How about wearing a flap from a lodge you were inducted to as a youth or an adult that is now defunct? Why would one wear a flap from the council he is in now if he is not participating member of that lodge, that just doesn't make sense.

Again Bob White violating the scout law,especially courteous kind and friendly to other scouters on this forum, makes me grateful he put me on his ignore list. Safety guidelines or not if one of these kids suffered hypothermia, a heart attack, or a seizure this thread and event would have taken on a very different tone. This was not a well thought out activity by the adult leadership of this pack.