BadenP

SctDad How about some fire making skills, and outdoor cooking skills topped off with a dutch oven cobbler. Let the boys do as much as possible under proper supervision. This was always a hit on Webelos overnighters I took my boys to. Easy to prepare receipes like cannonballs, bread on a stick, beanie weenies, etc are always fun for the boys. Have a great time.

Gee Bob, negative, negative, negative! speeglevillemom, ignore BW's comments and bitterness and enjoy your new quest for it will be fun, frustrating, and rewarding, Nothing worth doing doesn't have its moments of pain, but the rewards in the end you will receive will make it all worthwhile. Ignore the naysayers like BW, who has obviously experienced many painful moments in scouting, and do the best job you can and in the end there will be the satisfaction of a job well done.

jblake you need to take whatever Bob says with a grain of salt, he is a "corporate BSA man", and in his eyes they can do no wrong. The problem is not with the basic BSA program but the rather ludricous ideas coming out of National today. IMHO National has lost their direction and is flaying away aimlessly in all directions instead of standing on the core program of the BSA, which are timeless on the skills and values it teaches at its foundation. The accusation that the BSA has gone soft in recent years is not without merit, eagle scout troops and merit badge mills are all too common today. That is one area I agree with Kudu and others. "If a boy doesn't become Eagle he is not a true scout", hogwash. In Nationals recent attempts to "modernize" the BSA program all they have done is continue to lose more support and more boys. Lets get back to the basics.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

I would not be so quick to dismiss Kudu's statement. In the original Woodbadge classes there was not the same emphasis on leadership theory that the new Woodbadge contains in their curriculum. Now not taking it to the extreme that he does the patrol methodology does seem to have been altered from what was presented in the original course, just an observation from reviewing my materials from both courses.

Eagle92 Ignore Bob's negativity, if she is excited about the position and she surrounds herself with both experienced and new cub leaders she will do just fine. Every camp leader had a first time, something BW has apparently forgotten, and as long as she is backed up with good resources and people she will succeed. Training helps but it seldom mirrors the reality of what happens at a typical cub day camp. Best wishes to all who are taking on this task.

No the sky isn't falling, yet if it ever did as long as it came from BSA National BW would never notice or else be convinced that it is a message from on high because its from National. The reality is that the Cub soccer program failed miserably as will any other attempt to attract Hispanic youth to scouting, why, because a bunch of paper pushing overweight WASP's at National haven't got a clue how to do it. The few token hispanic units in the southwest that BSA parades around in Scouting magazine are exceptions because they are underwritten by corporate sponsors, sshhh that is supposed to be a secret, and will probably fold in a year or two as the kids lose interest or the money dries up. IMHO the scouting program will pretty much stay the same during Mazzuca's reign, he will continue to try these crazy ideas so he can claim he attempted to outreach to the Hispanic community but in the end it will fail. I agree with Kudu that the further scouting moves away from the outdoor emphasis the more we will see numbers fade away. Leadership and citizenship are good qualities to teach but without the outdoor program emphasis then what makes Boy Scouts unique dissappears. Maybe Mazzuca thinks the world of scouting can be made into a virtual reality game, like SIM, then he can appoint Bill Gates as Chief Volunteer Scouter. Oh what a world we live in, lol.

Hal That is my point, as far as weening the hispanic boy away from the family is not going to be easy as it is ingrained into the culture the family is the center of everything and that concept is alien to American culture of today and the BSA program. Only after generations of living in this country do you even see a slight change in this idea in all Hispanic cultures. My other point is that if indeed the BSA starts to design programs around different ethnic groups cultural needs such as Asian immigrants, African immigrants, or Middle East immigrants it defeats the foundation of the program and creates a hodgepodge of weaker programs. A case in point LDS scouting, while it uses the basic concepts of the BSA their focus/program is different from non LDS units, their units are much smaller in size and the boys are registered by the church even though many do not attend meetings, the leaders are appointed, not volunteers, by church leaders for a one year committment and as a result many do not get properly trained. While they do use the BSA program the main focus is to prepare the boys to go on missions and to become church leaders. Is this truly what scouting is all about? I don't think so. National needs to seriously re-evaluate what they are trying to achieve with this new program.

I think most of you missed the point about the new Hispanic cub program. In hispanic families who have migrated here mainly from Mexico almost all recreational activities are organized around the family not the individual, that is their culture. That is one reason why the BSA really has failed to make much of an inroad with Hispanics in scouting. This program to involve the entire family may or may not work depending how well National has it organized and promoted in the field. The program is indeed very different and is not a standard scouting program, most of you remember the cub soccer program for Hispanic youth that has turned out to be a marketing fiasco for National. Why is National trying to reach out to Hispanics, because in the next 10 years they will be 60% of the population in the USA. So this is an attempt by National to remain viable into the 21st century. The BSA in the past has allowed certain religious groups to reformat/alter the scouting program to suit the needs of their youth, this isn't much different but it is the first attempt to go after a particular ethnic group. Personally I think creating seperate scouting programs for ethnic groups is a Pandora's box and could be the beginning of the end of the BSA as it exsists today. What National sees as a possible solution for dropping numbers and contributions could seriously backfire on them, time will tell.

But it has and will continue to happen, at the Sommers canoe base last fall I watched one leader ahead of my group being told that due to his weight and HBP he could not participate with his youth in the canoe trek and should leave or find a local hotel to wait out the week. The staff member telling him this was an EMT who really isn't qualified to diagnois the medical condition especially since the guys own MD certified him fit to go, but it seems they have a checkoff list and certain conditions or any combination of them is an automatic disqualification. Now I understand taking precautions but I think the bases should be upfront before the units spend the money to get there that hey, "this leader is not going to make it through medical inspection."

Misstating and misinterpreting other peoples comments is a Bob White speciality!!! A scout is helpful, courteous, and kind unless you disagree with Bobby.

Yea Beavah, the almighty BW has a sea scout ship with 3 one man sailboats so he is an expert and besides he is never wrong, lol.

That's not what I said Stosh. What I said is that pushing a particular faith tradition on cubs by the den leader is wrong, especially when the parents sign off the requirement anyhow. Nothing is wrong about talking about a creator or the divine but for an organization whose members come from multiple faiths a scout leader is not supposed to promote his own agenda of what he thinks the correct tradition or definition of GOD is the true one, that lies with the parents of the cub. To do otherwise would indeed be in violation of the DRP.

In his own demeaning and callous way Bob intent is correct here, even though it could have been phrased much more politely.

It is a subject that should be discussed in the home by the parents, especially with cubs. Other than general references to creation or a creative force any deeper discussions would be inappropriate especially if it references a specific religion or denomination, that is not shirking the scout leaders responsibility as BW suggests.

Especially your interpretations Bob. Never apologizes or admits mistakes, thats the Bob White methodology of scouting, lol.

All BW and others would have to do is look at the handbooks from other countries to see the differences that Beavah and emb21 pointed out, they do treat the scouts in many other countries with a lot more freedom and maturity in a lot of activities that would violate GSS in this country, firearms, water sports unsupervised by adult leaders, boy led high adventure treks to name just a few.

I agree with Kahuna and others who state you do not have to follow a Judeo-Christian ethic to meet this requirement and no one here, including BW, has the right to pass judgement on another concerning whether or not they meet the DRP or not. This question of faith belongs solely in the purview of that scouts family. The DRP is worded nebulously enough to include a wide variety of beliefs, as it should be. So Sarge you keep being the great cub leader you are and let the rest evolve in its own natural order.

Once again Bobby you missed the point, this kid knew he did not complete the requirements and he failed to show leadership and responsibility that Eagle scouts should and try to rectify the situation before the BOR. Instead he tried to slip it by last minute and in essence was rewarded for his dishonesty and irresponsibility with the Eagle Award, what an example for all other scouts and what a poor example of what an Eagle Scout is supposed to represent. BW you are always such a stickler for following the rules so your position here is hypocritical at best. As far as your response to my post I don't know who you were quoting but it wasn't me, I never said anything about 95% of Eagles..., so as you are so fond of saying please try and get your facts straight before you make such ludicrous and inaccurate statements, thank you.

And this argument proposed by Bob White is why the Eagle award continues to become less meaningful an accomplishment and the BSA program continues to lose credibility. To state that the BSA is afraid of lawsuits is also bogus, and no it is not a given that if the BOR had done their job and denied the award that the decision would be overturned. The scoutmaster and the scout were equally culpible in this screwup and to say well the hell with it he is almost 18 and give him the Eagle says loads about what is wrong internally with the politics and credibility in the BSA program today.

The main point of any POR is to teach leadership and organizational skills and all POR's are not equal in teaching these skills, it is not solely to meet a requirement for Eagle either. A scout as he advances through the ranks should have ample opportunities to try his hand at a variety of increasingly more difficult POR's before he attempts Eagle. This is best accomplished by the SM making sure these positions are rotated enough according to the size of his troop to allow every boy the opportunity to hold several POR's during his time in scouts. Allowing one boy to hold the position of SPL for over a year for example means the troop adult and youth leadership are not doing their jobs at promoting leadership skills among the members of the troop. POR's are not supposed to be popularity contests, yet in many troops that is exactly what they have become. Instead of just reading the rulebook scoutmasters need to focus these rules so that they serve the best interests of their entire troop instead of a handful of individuals.

Bobby All I have to say to you is that you are a real piece of work!! As far as hostility and trustworthy is concerned it is a two way street, bub.

First of all Bobby this guy did not do or say anything in violation of YPT, the girls LIED not him and yet he paid the price for their childish prank not them so no this was YPT failing not working,(do you even read the posts Bob?) Perhaps ignorant was the wrong word for your comments, how about Arrogant and Obnoxious instead, both seem to fit the tone of both your replies. Your attitude of the BSA is always right didn't hold water here. This was a case where all the rules in the BSA failed to result in a just end, he was found innocent of all accussations and yet the damage was done to his reputation and scouting lost another great volunteer.

It may not be a BSA rule Bobby but I can tell you what happenned to a male associate advisor in another crew in my council, he was driving a group of female venturers home from an event and was accused by two of them of making lewd suggestions and touching them inappropriately. He was told to step down from all crew activities by the SE while an investigation took place. The problem was that the crew was scheduled to go to the Sea Base that next weekend, this trip was two years in planning and fundraising which he had spearheaded and he had to stay at home. It turns out the girls who accused him were trying to get even with him since he caught them taking off from the activity that weekend and reported them, so the whole case was bogus, but the damage was done, his reputation was shot, parents believing the rumors did not want their girls around him. I even offered him a position in my crew but he told me he had enough. So he left Venturing and scouting and those two girls disappeared from the crew. Bob obviously you have no girls on your ship or you would not have made such an uninformed and ignorant statement. Just because something is not in a BSA rulebook doesn't mean you can leave common sense behind and not take precautions to protect both the youth and adults on a crew trip.

I don't understand why this is even a problem, in my crew we never have a shortage of male and female adults willing to participate in any activity. We have six adult associate advisors, three male and three female registered in our crew. As far as sleeping overnight the rule is very clear a male and female adult must be present, another caution however could be a group of cars heading to an activity and in one of them the adult is a male and the passengers are all female crew members which might set the guy up for accusations or worse.

For me this movie touched me in a way I am sure it does all scouters who devote so much time to scouting, and at times have wondered why I am I still doing this. It is not about training or what makes a good scout troop, its about something that touches us at our core and makes us proud to be part of a great organization. This movie is probably the best PR the Boy Scouts have ever received. Anyone one who has ever been a scout in their youth can't help but be drawn in by the story. So I give it two thumbs up.