MattR

What both of you are saying is that once it's in place it's easy to keep going. That's fine. But what if you start with a troop that doesn't have it in place? I honestly do not see many troops with at least patrols cooking on their own, so I suspect there is very little scout leadership. Isn't this one of the best ways for scouts to learn the main aim of scouting? And yet, there's no help. The BSA courses do not cover this. We've beaten that dead horse. I agree that a power point presentation would be a waste. Stosh's "take care of your scouts" is a start but I'm finding that needs more. Eagl

My definition of take care of a scout is very different from an incoming webelo parent. And that incoming parent's definition is surprisingly close to a new SPL or new PL. Last week my newish SPL decided to have the patrols do something and I could just hear Stosh screaming "managing the task and not the people". So I asked the SPL how this was going to help the patrols and he said it will be good for them to be more efficient. It will build teamwork, he said. We had a bit of discussion about who owned the job he had in mind (the QM) how this was impacting him, how possibly a campfire might be

Maybe the first thing to do is define what is meant by awesome. If it's get every scout 3 merit badges in 2, 1 hour classes spread a week apart then you'll see a lot of push back here. However, if you start with what is awesome for one scout working on one MB with one counselor, and then figure out how to scale it up without losing the one on one definition, then you'll have something.

Scouts. I'm finding that they are becoming more willing to take ownership of the calendar and are better at leading events as they focus more on the people. It's a paradox that they don't see and honestly most people never do. I never see that written anywhere. Instead there are vague ideas of leadership. The phrase take care of those under you is too abstract. It could easily be interpreted as "do their work for them". It's a good place to start but needs more.

@@TAHAWK, so in the old days of more outdoor skills and patrol method, how was leadership taught?

My def of burnout: when the crap hill gets higher than your passion. But passion is different for different people. Where it comes from I don't know. I have noticed it is infectious. One person can float an entire boat. I saw a pack go from 60 people to 20 in just a year when their 3 or 4 good people left. Interesting though that, from another thread, passion for your people is not too far from leadership. BTW, Stosh, I agree with you that WB doesn't give this topic nearly enough attention. I thought being a DL was also the toughest job, but I do more and deal with more as SM. For me,

@@Stosh, I realize you're an expert in a lot of things, but the subject of what rabbinic scholars do? No offense, but I'll listen to a rabbi before I listen to you. Actually, I have. I didn't make up the differences of I am who I am. I saw the quote here, saw that there was a difference of opinion of the translation, and just knew there would be a lot more to this given the importance of that statement. It took me a minute to find the discussion of I shall be vs I am. I thought it would be a fun way to illustrate something interesting about the Bible. I certainly didn't want to start an argume

@@CalicoPenn, interesting connection to religion. Religion, to me, is a matter of the heart. It's hard to prove anything one way or the other. There are lots of interpretations, and yet nobody can nail it down. Maybe leadership is also a matter of the heart, or at least maybe that's what good leadership is. @@Stosh, not necessarily misquoted. From the Hebrew the quote is ehyeh asher ehyeh. Asher can translate to which, that, or who. But better yet, ehyeh can translate to "I am" or "I shall be." I am who I shall be, I shall be who I am, .... It's one of those things that gets lost in transl

We're not trying to beat you up here. Your asking for help is great. We've all been through dealing with people like this before and we're focusing on the practical. We're also thinking about your son. The other thing that's not being mentioned is that, believe it or not, this is an opportunity. Most problems are. Read the front page on the BSA website and it will say something along the lines of teaching scouts how to make good decisions. Granted, this guy is not anything we'd create, but, if he's not wearing down your son so much that your son is frustrated, lemons and lemonade. If your son

Now that I think about it.... We've had requirements at times to solve certain problems but once we grew out of those we dropped those requirements. In all of the positions the SPL picks, I talk to him. I don't make decisions but I describe the job, we talk about personalities, we ask each other questions. I'm always interested in the difference between what the scouts and adults see. This discussion about different ways of doing things has some unintended consequences. Namely, if there are so many ways of doing things then the training can't really get specific about anything in particula

He could be the biggest jerk in the district but if the committee likes him then that's what they want. If the scouts like camping only 4 times a year then what happens when this parent demands he leaves? I often hear and see what happens when a new parent tries making a big change in a troop and it doesn't work. It doesn't matter how valid the new parent's ideas are. This SM does sound like a jerk but unless there are other parents that agree this is likely not going to end well. If this guy is so bad then why is it that everyone accepts it? This troop could very well be a mess. Who will he

What does your son think of the situation? If it's bothering you more than him, then stop letting it bother you. Talk to him. If he's upset then give him moral support. That might be all he needs. Encourage him to seek out feedback from the scouts. If, as you say, they like him, then that will also be plenty of moral support. However, your son being so young, the SM being grumpy. I don't know. Digging a bit to find out what the cause is might help a lot. It might be that the SM is upset because he feels someone is taking his power. I don't know what the dynamics were before your son became

I don't know if this is sacrilegious or not, but the push for Eagle by 15 seems to be a mistake. 15-16 is the height of what we call the slacker phase and I understand that getting eagle before that will raise the numbers, but the scouts that make it through that phase seem to be much better scouts. They help out more, enjoy the activities more, the younger scouts look up to them more. I don't want to do the girl scout model and I won't prevent a scout from completing eagle early, but I sure won't encourage it. @@qwazse said: are we discouraging scouts who would never make Eagle from enjoy

Other than about 3 scouts, there is only one cluster in my troop. Technically you can get Eagle up to 3 months after your 18th birthday (so long as the SM signature is before) so my guess is our average is a bit over 18. Very few scouts can actually wear their Eagle award given that their coh is usually months after they complete the rank. We should just hand out knots. We just had an ECOH for 3 scouts last night. All of them completed their rank after their 18th birthday by about a month, and it was all the same month. After his mom pinned the medal on one scout I joked and said he had to

Can't a scout take care of another scout while also taking care of a job? Isn't that really the challenge we all have? We have to get paid, buy groceries, fix the toilet ... and at the same time care for our family, colleagues, and community. We have to take care of the tasks, we choose whether to take care of the people. Character seems to be reflected best in those that do both. So the QM can take care of the gear while also showing a new scout how to fold a tent. He could have just yelled at the new scout but instead he took the time to do it right. Done right, the QM will have a big impact

Sentinel, and I guess everyone else that has patrol pors, how do you encourage the patrols to use these pors? I keep suggesting them and the scouts don't see any benefit, or maybe they see the benefit but don't want to put in the effort. Some of them will create positions for a campout but that's it. They still manage their own gear, buy food, and all that, but they just can't grasp the benefit of divying up the work ahead of time.

It sounds like your underlying question is should this really count as an eagle project. Well, obviously if the scouts didn't show he shouldn't get credit. But you also mention that the "ladies organized everything." The question for any eagle project is how does the scout show leadership. Sounds like this case deserves more questions. If a scout asked me or my district to sign off on a project where all the scout has to do is show up and do some work, or even just provide the labor, it would never get approved. But I don't know all the details for this one. I'm guessing.

Why do scout leaders always make assumptions? Just to clear things up, it is not always the leader's kid. blw2, this is your oldest son? who is about12 or 13? If so, you're in for a ride. It might not be your son so much as it's you. Your son is doing what all boys do at that age, they start to split away from mom and dad. This may sound crude, evil, mean, or just plain wrong, but hear me out. I've seen something happen over and over again and scouter fathers can't believe they're doing this. Maybe this is you, only you can answer this. These dads love scouts and want their so

Those numbers do not reflect my council. We are one of the largest troops in our council, often we are the largest, and a good year for us is five eagles. We've never had nine. Typical for our district is one or two per troop. Nine eagles a year would be half of our typical troops. So, maybe being so close to national changes things. Or maybe you're near a big city.

A story to illustrate how useful our modern tools of communication are: I called a PL a week ago and left him a message to please call me in the next two days. I just wanted to know what his patrol was doing at the next meeting. Three days later I called him again. He answered. I asked if he was going to call me. He said he did, twice. No record of this on my phone. Think think think. I then asked him if I answered the phone. No. I then asked if he left a message. Pregnant pause. No. Honestly, I'd prefer, when trying to communicate with scouts, that there was no email or sms so the scouts wou

@@Krampus, I currently have 5 patrols and one of the problems we used to have was "rotating through stations." 10 minutes per station is an artifact of the number of patrols, not the activity. If the activity should last for a half hour (what can you cook in the 5 minutes you'll actually have if there's a 10 min period?) then consider 3 meetings of doing 2 stations at a time rather than all 6 in one meeting. My scouts have revolted at 10 minute activities. That said, climbing at a rock wall, archery, going to a pool, ice skating, and roller skating. These are all full meeting activities.

All the packs I go to use their bridge just for the "graduates"

@@Eagledad, I'm curious about your activity crews as a way for scouts to say they want to do something that might not fit in with their patrol. Scouts in the same patrol might have similar temperament, so they have fun together doing typical scout stuff, but not always the same interests when it comes to pushing the edge. They all like to camp but if some scout says he wants to do 20 miles in a day, his patrol is likely not going to go along with it. But there might be some other scouts in other patrols that would. Are these crews just for a single main event (and maybe training to go with

This could get ugly. We should stick with scouts.

The jeep commercial was probably the only one I paid attention to, and I did see the scout. I thought that was cool. NJ, it must suck not having a team in the superbowl. Oh wait, you never can have a team in the superbowl (the New Jersey Gladiators?) All gloating aside, I was going crazy just assuming the fairytale would end before the game did. Remember, two years ago the Broncos' first play at the superbowl was a safety. Given all that misery and one win every 17 years, please pardon my happiness.