MattR

I'm not sure it matters. The adults that are eagle scouts are no more likely to help out than the other parents. It's just that those that do help come up to speed much faster. It gets down to getting to know the parents, and preferably before asking them to do something. I talked to a rabbi that turned a synagogue around and I asked her what her secret was to getting more people involved. She said it's easy; get to know the people. Invite them over. Treat them like guests. Their age has nothing to do with it. In a world that's becoming more impersonal people like the human touch. Granted,

Interesting how multiple threads simultaneously come around to the same subject. Trust isn't a given, it has to be earned, and we really want the scouts to earn it. Swords, rifles, hiking on their own up a rock, doesn't really matter. What also seems to be a constant is that older generations don't trust younger ones. Maybe hindsight is a bit through rose colored glasses. I was one kid that got his rear chewed out for being disrespectful, lazy, and all the other things I dislike about dealing with kids-these-days. But I have to admit, when they do get it, it's a great high. Just a guess bu

This is not the first time I've heard of differences between Philmont training and national training. My guess is there's something going on between Philmont and those that do training at national. As in, Philmont likes making training (and quite possibly the money that comes with it) and national could care less so they both go their own ways. I talked to someone a long time ago about better understanding how to get the patrol method going and how hard it was to find any useful training and they said Philmont has this great course. I said if it's so great, why is it limited to Philmont and wh

But a boy scout can go backpacking, so what's wrong with outpost camping? Well, let's look it up in the g2ss. Oops, this is the g2ss. Hmm, well, the word outpost isn't on that webpage except in that graph. The graph also suggests, in the right most column, that wilderness back country is limited to 14 and older. Backpacking is also only mentioned in the context of high adventure, 14+. So I guess backpacking is no longer allowed in boy scouts? Or maybe this whole page should just be ignored.

That would certainly be a better model, and easier to focus on the right things. But it would be tough to make work in today's busy world. Nearly every scout that has Eagled in my troop has described a lazy phase they went through on their trail to Eagle. Without that shiny medal at the end a lot of them would have just left for all the other activities they have going on. When they're 15 they know the check boxes are just a bunch of hoops. At the same time they aren't mature enough to see the bigger picture. Once they're 17.99 and just done their SMC, if you heard them talk you'd realize

I don't know about most of those 54k, but I just received a very nice thank you note from one of them. The program does work. There are lots of bits and pieces to the program but a few are critical. First is high adventure. Make memories and they will return. Second is the desire to earn Eagle. Third is a culture of helping out. I use the second as leverage to get a scout to do the third. And then I get a really nice thank you note. The numbers don't bother me one way or another. Most of the program changes don't either (except for MBs at summer camp). The graph shows a big spike start

Why burn bridges over this one comment? It's fairly clear the sword is okay to use. The problem is grandpa (Someone). Maybe he was just having a bad day. He is not a bully and doesn't need a dressing down over this. Yes, he picked a fight. Does that mean anyone has to respond to it? If courtesy and friendship are really important then how about trying to find common ground first? Sure, this guy might be a real thorn, but maybe he's not and all the experience he has might be useful. This is why I suggested finding a way for him to save face.

I think a sword is a great idea. Me thinks this issue has less to do with safety and more about some guy just looking for a reason to puff up his feathers. If it was a fun ceremony and the scouts really enjoyed it then I'd suggest talking to the CM. Don't put him in the middle between you and Someone. Ask for clarity. The CM will regurgitate what Someone told him. Look it up. When you can't find it bring it back and show the CM. Talk about how much fun the scouts had .... You just need a way for Someone to save face when you tell him you're bringing back the sword. Then you can get back to

@@Hedgehog, I'm trying to make a list of challenges as well. While I would like to do this on a campout I just don't have the time to put that together. (Once I put together something that included climbing, shotgun, and canoes and it was fantastic, but the overhead to put it together was too much.) So, this time it will have to be in town. I also want to create scenarios with people problems; overbearing adults, troublesome scouts from other patrols, immature scouts in the patrol. So, some simple challenges with hidden problems. I'm all ears with any ideas you have. I only have two weeks

If the Webelos never spent time with your troop then that's one issue. If they have spent time and still went elsewhere then it might be another issue. I've had lots of parents tell me how they have been ignored when visiting other troops. We make a big deal when a webelo visits. Bring him up front. Introduce him. Put him in a patrol. Make him feel welcome. Same with the parents. When my son joined, the SPL came over and grabbed him before the meeting started and I didn't see him much. I remind the scouts every year what it was like when they joined. The big kids are huge. It's scary. They are

Part of the intense activity load for Japanese kids is due to how hard and how important it is to get into the right college. Once a kid gets accepted to college life is much easier. School is easy and if you get into the right school, so is getting a good job. On the other hand, getting into a reasonably good college in the US is easy. Getting out with a useful degree is much harder. So, high school in Japan is very important, in the US it's college. At least this is what it was like circa 1990, when I was there.

What I did was an exercise. Everyone took turns at being the leader. Everyone spent most of their time listening and if they had an idea they suggested it knowing it might get rejected. Everyone was also forced to take a turn at deciding everything for everyone. Believe it or not, this was the hardest part for most scouts. One scout out of the two patrols that participated refused to listen and just decide for everyone else. It was a teaching moment when his approach failed. This approach worked very well. Despite everyone's fear that it would turn into a dictatorship, the scouts were working

I just did something for a group of new scouts as well as a patrol that is struggling that I'd like to work into patrol leader training, and it worked really well. It was about teamwork, leadership, and how the two interact. I took a bunch of the low cope style activities, one for each person in the patrol, and had the scouts do them with one exception. There is a patrol leader (everyone has a turn at this). The patrol leader has the ultimate say in what happens and everyone else must obey what he says. Also, we stress that the PL needs to be aware of this responsibility. His ideas of how to s

While competition is good it's not the goal that counts. I.e., Cam Newton is also a very competitive person.

Steampunk is a mix of the wild west and scifi. The original steampunk was the Wild Wild West. Cowboys and Aliens and the remake of the Wild Wild West are more recent versions. I loved all those shows. What could be better to a 12 year old than a turbo charged steam engine shooting lasers at the bad guys?

MattR - sure one can make that assumption about new units, but that's not necessarily a valid assumption for everyone. Sorry, just bad wording. I meant someone starting new with any troop and trying to make it more boy led. If anything I'd think it would be easier to start with a new troop. I would seriously like to know what it is you're finding that needs more? As I said before, take care of your people means different things to different people. To mom it might mean plow the field so their son has no problems to deal with. ... "On my honor I will .... help other people

Wow, it really must have been part of the fabric of scouting. I guess there's been a lot of lost knowledge. That's exactly the type of thing I was looking for when I took WB.

What both of you are saying is that once it's in place it's easy to keep going. That's fine. But what if you start with a troop that doesn't have it in place? I honestly do not see many troops with at least patrols cooking on their own, so I suspect there is very little scout leadership. Isn't this one of the best ways for scouts to learn the main aim of scouting? And yet, there's no help. The BSA courses do not cover this. We've beaten that dead horse. I agree that a power point presentation would be a waste. Stosh's "take care of your scouts" is a start but I'm finding that needs more. Eagl

My definition of take care of a scout is very different from an incoming webelo parent. And that incoming parent's definition is surprisingly close to a new SPL or new PL. Last week my newish SPL decided to have the patrols do something and I could just hear Stosh screaming "managing the task and not the people". So I asked the SPL how this was going to help the patrols and he said it will be good for them to be more efficient. It will build teamwork, he said. We had a bit of discussion about who owned the job he had in mind (the QM) how this was impacting him, how possibly a campfire might be

Maybe the first thing to do is define what is meant by awesome. If it's get every scout 3 merit badges in 2, 1 hour classes spread a week apart then you'll see a lot of push back here. However, if you start with what is awesome for one scout working on one MB with one counselor, and then figure out how to scale it up without losing the one on one definition, then you'll have something.

Scouts. I'm finding that they are becoming more willing to take ownership of the calendar and are better at leading events as they focus more on the people. It's a paradox that they don't see and honestly most people never do. I never see that written anywhere. Instead there are vague ideas of leadership. The phrase take care of those under you is too abstract. It could easily be interpreted as "do their work for them". It's a good place to start but needs more.

@@TAHAWK, so in the old days of more outdoor skills and patrol method, how was leadership taught?

My def of burnout: when the crap hill gets higher than your passion. But passion is different for different people. Where it comes from I don't know. I have noticed it is infectious. One person can float an entire boat. I saw a pack go from 60 people to 20 in just a year when their 3 or 4 good people left. Interesting though that, from another thread, passion for your people is not too far from leadership. BTW, Stosh, I agree with you that WB doesn't give this topic nearly enough attention. I thought being a DL was also the toughest job, but I do more and deal with more as SM. For me,

@@Stosh, I realize you're an expert in a lot of things, but the subject of what rabbinic scholars do? No offense, but I'll listen to a rabbi before I listen to you. Actually, I have. I didn't make up the differences of I am who I am. I saw the quote here, saw that there was a difference of opinion of the translation, and just knew there would be a lot more to this given the importance of that statement. It took me a minute to find the discussion of I shall be vs I am. I thought it would be a fun way to illustrate something interesting about the Bible. I certainly didn't want to start an argume

@@CalicoPenn, interesting connection to religion. Religion, to me, is a matter of the heart. It's hard to prove anything one way or the other. There are lots of interpretations, and yet nobody can nail it down. Maybe leadership is also a matter of the heart, or at least maybe that's what good leadership is. @@Stosh, not necessarily misquoted. From the Hebrew the quote is ehyeh asher ehyeh. Asher can translate to which, that, or who. But better yet, ehyeh can translate to "I am" or "I shall be." I am who I shall be, I shall be who I am, .... It's one of those things that gets lost in transl