John-in-KC

Anyone else here remember SOD SURFING??? http://www.t21.ga.bsatroops.org/Photo%20Pages/2005%20Sod%20Surfing.htm I just googled those old boys; they still have this stuff up. Troop 21, Americus, GA: Gotta love em.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Welcome to the Forums, I gather you're a Scoutmaster. Ages and stages... seen it, wasn't a part of it (mine is an only, my brother and I were 6 years apart). What can you do about it? Lots... 1) You've not told us about the parents. Are they involved, or do they believe in Baby Sitters of America? 2) You can share concerns with your PLC and ask them for input? Maybe they need to be separated in space from each other (different patrols). I'll bet you the PLC has their own thoughts about why, and may know more about the challenges than you do. 3) You can have a Scoutmaster conference involving the family, especially if they are taking so much of your time you're not able to do the job for the rest of your charges. 4) You can ask them for input into how to solve the problem. Right now, your selected solution is in the "telling" or "directing" portion of the leadership quadrant model (high direction, low encouragement). If you move towards a "selling" or "coaching" solution, you'll be encouraging them even as you give them guidance. 5) It might even be worth asking if these young men need to be in the same Troop? Might their growth and development be better if they were given space from each other? There's something else going on her, Joe, something deeper. (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I really like the wasy Lisa put this in play. I've shot weapons since I was a Scout myself. I've qualified on .22s, M1911A1s, M16s of multiple flavors (Vandenberg AFB had XM16E1s when I was in ROTC), M102s, M109A1/2/3, and M110A2s. That doesn't count M-60s and M2 HBMHGs (headspace and timing, anyone)? I've run ranges for Mother Army and for Scouting. The children's own fertile imaginations provides more than enough "bang-bang, shootemup, you're DEAD." (How many Soldiers first played with the 3 second rush at home "playing war"?) They are at an age where re-enacting can inspire "fun with guns." That's why I like Lisa's ideas for this so very much. They leverage some common sense onto the original idea.

What Beavah said. That said, remember to plan and execute your Tour Permit!

I'm also a Veteran. Go for it

From my perspective, they were a substantial watering down of the requirements. Being an Advancment Coordinator, there are better ways to manage advancement, taking advantage of the Troop Scribe in executing his POR is one of them. Besides, they are an extra expense on the Troop Treasury. We need to concentrate more on making sure our young men MASTER the skills they teach others, that our young men teach skills beyond rote memorization to MASTERING THE CONCEPTS, and that our young men cna recalls those skills throughout their lives. Less bauble, more hard skill, more youth leadership!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They're sorta like red beenies to me... Ding dong the loop is dead, the loop is dead, the loop is dead... Can you tell how I really feel?

In a world of peers and knaves, Sometimes it's hard to be Brave. Moral Courage and Physical, It needs to be typical, For young men to enter life's waves.

Mark and Jim, I think the meat of this thread is not in whether or not the Flags exist, but in how the current CC and SM are implementing the Scouting program for this Troop. I stand by my earlier comments. This unit needs a visit from its UC in a most serious fashion!

Skill awards came about in a program shift in the 1970s. Bill "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's program, which had great emphasis on the Outdoor Method of Scouting, was discarded in the name of "relevance." I was an older youth member at the time. I went to Exploring. I cannot tell you for sure when National dropped them once and for all, but IIRC they were gone forever by 1995. IF your Troop is using them, then either: - It's a local implementation OR - Your unit serving Scouters have not looked at Boy Scout Requirements (#33215) and the Boy Scout Handbook in a decade. My bet is on the former in this case.

Sue, You got it right!!! He's growing old and feeble John (ducking and running)

Of course, since uniform is not a METHOD of Venturing, I doubt a lot of young ladies and gentlemen may care...

Mr Tazteez, You start by calling your Council service center and asking for a camp staff job application. Fill it out, get your references together (usually your SM is a MANDATORY reference), and turn it in. Of course, since most Scout Camps have staff week in two weeks, you may be a bit behind the power curve. Wish you well. My son starts his second year as a staffer soon enough His Director and PD were part of his EBOR last year

Since it looks like Result1 is going to move Son of Result1 to a new Troop in the near future, I though we might band together and share the top 2-3 things we look for: From the adult side: - Is there a "distribution of labor" on the Troop Committee, or is it a one man show? - Do the Scouters seem to understand the Methods of Scouting, and know their part in the same, or is there a lot of adult "hands-on" participation? - Are the adults by and large out of the way of the SM and SPL, or are they being bypassed? From the youth side: - Is there a focus developing skills towards a coming activity (be it camp, canoeing, or even a Good Turn for America service project, or are folks studying for the next in-house MB? - Is the SPL or ASPL supervising the meeting overall, or are ASMs and the SM doing that? - Are there a fair number of smaller activities through the building, or are the youth sitting like bumps on a log? In general, the or... part of each question is focused towards the "don't choose this troop", for me.

OK, now we're getting some info. There's a wall of some form between the Scout unit and the Chartered Partner. It's a barrier to cross-communication. We need to replace that wall and show both sides (unit and CP) that Scouting is a community win-win. 1) Contact your Unit Commissioner and DE. To me it sounds like your unit needs the "recharter service meeting" between the Professional and the Institutional Head (or Executive Officer). I'd recommend the following folks attend that particular session: - IH - COR - Chairman and Program Officer of each Pack, Troop, Team and Crew under Charter - UC - DE 2) Have the DE and UC explain to all the commitments made in a BSA Charter. They include, for the Chartered Partner: - Facilities (space, power, water, heat, sewage...) - Leader Selection - Agreement to leverage the Scouting program In return, Scouting provides: - Facilities (read camps) - Training - Support 3) The DE/UC can also explain how your Council and State law interpret the property and Treasury ownership statements. 4) Going around the table, the Chartered Partner can share what they expect from a Scout unit, be it 100% attendance at Scout Sunday, help with spring cleanup, whatever. We do owe, as a debt of honor, Good Turns back to those who sponsor Scouting in our communities. The Chartered Partner may want you to come to them once or twice a year, and report back on how you're doing... 5) Further in turn, you and your fellow unit leaders can share their desires from the Chartered Partner. It may be you need storage space, or perhaps their sales tax exemption for buying goods. Maybe it's you need pastoral support to help do God and Me. If you ask, you might not get, but if you don't ask, you won't get. Bottom Line: We need to make this a win/win! If I might suggest, summer is coming... perhaps a summertime Pack activity coordinated with a summertime Chartered Partner activity??? Let the folks of the CP see these high-energy young men you're developing...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

There are going to be exceptions to every rule, but generalities help a bit. Not every 20-something is ready to be a Scoutmaster. Some (more likely, a few) are, and they'll be very, very good. Others won't. From the young adults who were in my Wood Badge class, my patrol mates and I: - Deduced they had yet to have that true "Oh, XXXX!!!" moment, when job, family, and friendships all blow up at once. - Deduced they had not yet learned the difference between being a MEMBER of the program, and being an adult facilitating and mentoring youth. - Discovered, at the end of the cycle, that they were the ones who didn't complete their tickets. We're all different. I know I never want to be a front-line Scoutmaster. I don't have the long-term patience, especially with the youngster who just is not getting it. Heck, I have enough problems trying to see my own Eagle as others do, instead of seeing all the warts.

First, you have to understand: In our District, the concept of RT is "One stop shopping" for unit-serving Scouters. All three programs have their own RT. Cubs and Boy/Venturing have independent openings. The District Committee comes and mans tables in our "Activity Mall." A few years back, our Venturing RT Commish (before Council yanked Venturing RT out of the districts) had two adjacent rooms: One for the Cabinet, and one for the leaders. The District youth cabinet would meet independently of the Advisors and Committee types. Then, they'd get together the last 20 minutes or so and cross-fertilize. It worked.

Lisa wrote, in part: "For example this weekend we have several boys who have been active for a year or more with the troop, who are holding their own camp out so that they can finally do the cooking requirements for 2nd Cl. Why? Because in the last six months there has only been one time when they've had an opportunity to cook over an open fire (the rest of the time it has either been big propane stoves or troop cooking due to travel distances/time constraints/too much program crammed into too little time)." This is where the Scoutmaster really earns that big Scouting paycheck. Setting situations which are conducive to youth advancement is part of being the Program Officer! We're not charged with ensuring that Johnny gets 1st Class 3c done; but we are responsible for providing the environment as often as we can. How can we do this? First, mentoring the SPL... "Would you think it a good idea if you had the Quartermaster bring the fire barrels on this campout, so cooks can get open fires done?" ... alternatively, to SPL and PLC "Do we want to make it a troop standard that we bring the fire barrels on most weekends, so we can better use Dutch Ovens and cook over wood fires?" They're boys! As Rush Limbaugh says "they have minds full of mush." I take that to mean they don't have all knowledge and wisdom yet... one of our jobs as Scouters is to help them find good ideas and best practices. Sometimes the ah-HA moment works best, sometimes guided coaching works best.

I agree with Lisa on age and maturity, and where was the Chartered Partner in the first place? I agree with Beavah on "this is one of those things that we're glad to have CO's for. The CO can decide what its view and mission is, and how best to convey that." I have to wonder, though... does Beavah type Beavah-speak in his legal writings, and does he speak Beavah-speak in the courtroom??? I've pretty well concluded Beavah is either an attorney, or works closely with attorneys, in his day job.

Welcome to the campfire, Mr Norrington I paid for Wood Badge on my own. It was about the same price as yours. I'd speak to your accountant; you might be able to deduct WB as continuing education, if you're already above the threshold for itemized deductions. In the 28% bracket, that tkaes over $50 off the table next year. That said, I'm not a CPA and do not play one on TV.

It's simply a friendly reminder I've been down this path before, and suspect I will be there again. There are particulars to my units' case which I won't disclose here at the Forums. I don't need to air the linen, clean or dirty. It's get the job done time; so the young men can advance. YIS John

I really, really appreciate what Beavah said here. I also appreciate the comment from Scoutldr: "I take it from the information provided that you are not a registered Scouter in this troop? Not a criticism, but it does limit your ability to influence the troop operations. As a parent, you have the right to voice your opinion and vote with your feet and checkbook. That's about it." It's easier to influence the situation when an adult is a Scouter, rather than a parent. Then, the Scouter can wear the uniform with pride as well. Trust me, those who know me here have seen my rantings on quality, fit, and finish of uniform items. That said, I saw 1/2 a dozen young men last September allow a group picture of them, in full uniform, to be on their High School home page: It was the Eagle Court of Honor. Every one of them was involved beyond the basic student level! Hundreds of other kids knew these bandsmen, football linemen, and wrestlers They wore their uniforms with pride. Of course, they also wear HS band and athletic uniforms too!

Considering unit flags from BSA Supply aren't cheap, I'd be asking "Where are our National and Unit flags? Why aren't we using them? Have you lost them?" Result1, your unit is sounding goofier and goofier; you may want to get your Scout out of this unit. If they cannot keep a flag, let alone a Treasury...

YH, Keep your Unit Commissioner and your District Advancement Chairman in the loop as this young man bridges to your Troop. They can help you and your SM say "No, no, a thousand times, NO!" YIS

I've sat more than a few Palm BORs now. I find there is a difference in the conversations a Board has with a young man who is an Eagle. From my experience, Boards seem to be far more interested about how he is taking wing beyond the Troop or Crew: - How is he asserting himself in his classrooms, on his varsity teams, and/or in the bandroom? - What activities beyond Scouting and the classroom is he doing? How do the lessons of the Oath, Law, and Motto carry to them? - Does he have a job now? How does he demonstate leadership by just being an excellent worker? Yes, I want the young man to have taken root in Scouting ... but I also want him to take wing, and take the lessons from Scouting into the world from his Troop. BTW, getting back to donert's original question, the source document to usscouts, which Lisa'Bob posted (and I use regularly), is Boy Scout Requirements (YEAR), BSA #33215. It very specifically states: 4. "Earn five additional merit badges beyond those required for Eagle or last Palm.*. Footnoted on 4) above with the asterisk: *Merit Badges earned any time since becoming a Boy Scout may be used to meet this requirement. (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I agree by and large with Barry. That said, I believe a SM should: - Have a passion for supporting, cheerleading and helping young men raise themselves to adulthood. - Know the programs of Scouting and leverage them to the best interest of his charges. - Know the resources, human, land, and activity available within an hour of the Troops's gathering place. - Stay current!!!