John-in-KC

usedtobeafox, The COR has every right to sit in on a Troop Committee meeting and vote. In fact, all by himself, he has 51% of the vote. He is the direct representative of the licensee of record of Scouting, the Chartered Partner. You, as the Program Officer, should have a direct working relationship with both the CC and the COR. You should be sharing with them vision (yours and the PLCs) as well as implementation. BTW, if a unit runs well, a COR should never have to vote his majority share. You, as SM, have the authority to talk with your CC and say "you need Jack as a Treasurer more than I need him as an ASM. Let's lock him in as Treasurer, I will recruit and train additional ASMs." The only place where I see issue is your UC sitting and voting. Now, if your UC is out of your own pool of leaders, that's an issue for the DC and his assignment of Commissioners. OTOH, if your UC is participating as a voting member on the Committee, and he's not of the unit, then that justifies a gentle talk with him or his ADC. Being an SM requires a certain amount of iron courage, to stand up for what is right... for the sake of the youth members of our program!

Colonel North would not want to be found in a room of former regiment/brigade commanders, battalion commanders and sergeants major... they would excoriate him. He was a Pentagon puke. A political officer. Give me General Powell any day of the week.

I can hardly wait to see what happens when someone sees this Scout in his Class A uniform at dinner or some other function... and is wearing blue epaulet tabs and either the Webelo oval or his BC, Wolf and Bear diamonds... ... or when he wears a Webelo neckerchief to same ceremony... ... or if his unit numerals include the leftmost leading digit... (in my Council, this is the "unit category" number ... , 1 represents Scout Troops, 2 Venturing Crews, 3 and 4 Cub Scout Packs). This is really a bad idea ... from my experience, staffers are trained to support "ages and stages." Can you imagine this young lad as he does KP for the first time at the dining hall? Can someone say "helicopter parents??" Someone who knows the child in question really needs to call the Reservation Director and give him a "heads up."

http://www.gslc-bsa.org/council/council-information/executive-message/ Right now the SE for Great Salt Lake Council, Mr Paul Moore, has a message about the Virginia Tech shootings. I wonder when/if he'll discuss what happened at his Scout Camp? Here is something from the Council on fire management: http://gslc-bsa.org/docs/2007gslcfirepolicy.pdf "FIRE POLICY-January 2007 The Great Salt Lake Council, Boy Scouts of America, Risk Management Committee, in conjunction with the Camping and Properties Committee of the council, have determined the following fire policy for the year 2007: On all properties owned and operated by the Great Salt Lake Council, BSA, open flame fires are prohibited except in approved established fire-bowl rings or in a metal container 18 inches off the ground. A responsible adult at least 21 years of age must supervise all fires. This includes fires using charcoal briquettes and wood. A 4 to 6 foot perimeter around the fire-bowl ring or metal container must be maintained free of combustible or flammable materials. (See a current copy of Guide to Safe Scouting and Fire Guard Plan for specific information.) This is the standing policy of the Great Salt Lake Council, BSA and is subject to change without notice, based on fire hazard conditions, and may vary from property to property. Please check the camping and activities desk at the Council Service Center for the latest conditions. 801-582-3663. Units camping on Forest Service, BLM, National Parks or other government-controlled properties must abide by that agencys fire restrictions and/or guidelines. Units camping on private land must abide by local and state mandated fire restrictions. Call the Utah Division of Forestry, Fire and State Lands at 807-538-5555 or visit their Web site www.utahfireinfo.gov for information on state fire restrictions. In the event there are no restrictions, units are to adhere to the above stated Great Salt Lake Councils fire policy on these properties as well. KC)(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Ed, Please, please ... give a hard citation on this: "Also- Exploring (like Venturing/Sea Scouting) goes through age 21 (not "to" age 21 which is how all the publications show it); members are registered until their 22nd birthday or the unit charter expires, whichever comes first." If "all the publications say" TO age 21, then how can it be THROUGH age 21? Granted OA is from the Boy Scout Division, but youth program membership cuts off at the 21st Birthday. TIA and YIS, John

Here we sat like birds in the wilderness Birds in the wilderness Birds in the wilderness Here we sat like birds in the wilderness Waiting for E to find the rest of the STAFF... Waiting for E to find the rest of the STAFF... Waiting for E to find the rest of the STAFF... Here we sat like birds in the wilderness Birds in the wilderness Birds in the wilderness Here we sat like birds in the wilderness Waiting for E to find the rest of the STAFF!!! DanKroh: From a fellow Owl (C-40-05): We hunt by night, we eat good, and we sleep by day. It's good to be an Owl!!! Welcome!

Pack 378, What's done is done, and you cannot undo it. NOLO BASTARDUS CARBORUNDUM is a favorite saying of my dad, who was a WWII PW held by the Imperial Japanese Army. Even with Boy Scouts, if you sugar them up after 6PM, they aren't going to run down until 3AM. They'd have been up all night as was. I think Beavah has a good idea: Look at the funny side of this, and take-away the lesson of coordination on multiple levels. I don't know of a Scouter here who has not been either a victim of or a participant in a fiasco at some time in the Scouting career! YIS

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Campsites have a BSA standard design latrine (2 urinals, 1 handicap, 3 standard stalls over a concrete well). One end of the building has a 12' washbasin and a pipe drilled with holes provides running water. At our major Boy Scout facility, each of the 3 500 person camps has a pool with shower house. Youth have gang showers. Adults (each gender) have three stall showers, including 1 handicap stall). At our mixed use (Boy Scout 4 sessions, Webelos 10 sessions, and Bear Family Resident Camp 10 sessions) our Central Camp (Boy and Webelo) has a pool with shower house. Again, division by gender and age. The Bear Camp area has a BSA standard design staff village shower and latrine house (1 side, 10 combined toilet and sink rooms, the other side 10 shower rooms, and one handicap toilet/sink/shower room). OK?

Here's the takeaway for those who don't want to read the story: Scouting advancement records need to be current. Council will not certify Eagle apps where ScoutNet does not show the young man making Life or lacking Merit Badges. This lesson applies whether your unit uses Boy Scout handbooks, the BSA advancement wall chart, Troopmaster or some other database, or copies of Advancement Reports submitted to Council as source records! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Here's the story: It's been a frustrating morning. Four young men are approaching Eagle. A couple of years ago, I gave up being advancement coordinator for our Troop. At the time, the records were in Ordnung. I've also been advancement coordinator in our Crew. With one project finished, one awaiting his lessons learned, and one in progress, it's time to do a records review. I asked Council for a ScoutNet name specific dump. Our DE is a great young man; I got the dump in two business days Oh, XXXX. One Scout is still Star according to ScoutNet. All lack Eagle required MBs which are on their sashes. I neither know nor care where the disconnects happened. Now is the time to get them fixed. Soooooo... to the Committee Chairs, Scoutmasters, Advancement Coordinators, CORs, and UCs who read this: It doesn't matter who or how your advancement information. What matters is that you do the work and follow-up regularly. It's the Scouts who are hurt if you do not!

Gotta love questions that have no background. I'm with Lisa on this one. The ECOH belongs to the Scout and his family. If they want to do it with a friends and family picnic in a public park, and invite a family friend to give the Eagle Charge, it's their call.

E, Now I've Got: "I used to be Cuckoo" in my mind Gee, thanks Any staffers, before we do the "Here we sit..." for the staff?

Gilski, It looks to me like your Scout is adding A LOT of coordination and planning into his ELSP packet before it ever gets to your District Advancement Chairman. I strongly recommend having your SM and the District Advancement Chair have a sit-down before taking this project to the District Approval stage. He or she is the person your Scout must sell; if he's dead-set against this going-in, it makes sense to cut losses and look for a similar project closer in.

I'm a little concerned about a comment you made: "I dont know all the function of the Committee Chair, nor do I really care." The CC is the responsible adult for all support matters of a Troop. Advancement management, chartering, funds accountability, Troop property... the Chartered Partner looks to the CC to be the steward of everything a Boy Scout Troop does, except the Program. Program is the province of the Scoutmaster. A Troop Committee needs lots of folks to be there in the background: The trailer does not get licensed all by itself. Somebody's credit card buys the new tents when they wear out from fair wear and tear or are accidentally destroyed by a Scout. Someone is making sure new Scouters get the various essential training they need to function. From your posts, I infer there are challenges in your sons' Troop Committee. The best way to help get past those challenges is to volunteer, roll up your sleeves, and dig in on a project within the Committee. If you choose to move your son to another Troop, look not only at the program, but also at the support. BTW, since I don't see it here: Please, please encourage your Committee to adopt a "two-signature" rule. That way, there is accountability for the funds being spent, unless both signers are crossing ethical lines.

Somewhere there are some BOBWHITES, and Good Old BOBWHITES too, But now they've finished BOBWHITING and they doesn't know what to do. They're growing old and feeble, and they can BOBWHITE no more! So they're going to work their ticket if they can! Back to Gilwell, Happy Land, They're going to work my ticket if they can! Here we sat like birds in the wilderness Birds in the wilderness Birds in the wilderness Here we sat like birds in the wilderness We've given up waiting for the BOBWHITE patrol...

Harry Potter VII is definitely on the list. Probably will read Christopher Paolini's stuff, so I can converse with my son. It's about past time to re-read lots of CS Lewis, starting with the Screwtape Letters, but including Chronicles of Narnia series.

Welcome to the forums. Sorry, but I'm totally confused about: What you want to know? Why you want to know it? Who else you want to tell it to? Why do you want to tell them? It sounds like all this is in the young mans' past. There needs to be a really good reason to bring it up again. YIS.

Not a lot of info to go on here... Can you post this ceremony somewhere so we can look at it? For my son's ECOH, we started by having the six Eagles take their Moms on their arms and seat them, then go to their own seats (Dads followed). The Eagles asked a Scout they all respected to stand tall at the front, make the Scout sign, and take care of the Pledge, the Oath, and the Law. He then introduced the elder gentleman, an Eagle, who gave the invocation. I've yet to see two ECOH's conducted alike. I have seen other ECOHs where the Scouts of a Troop line the aisleway AFTER the ceremony, I've seen "escorts of honor" (other Eagles) bring the new Eagles up at the start of a ceremony. HTH. YIS.

I'm not quite sure if it's out on the internet, but I've heard of a Commissioner's College thesis that says the optimal size for a troop is 50 or so... OR LESS!! 5 Patrols of 8 boys (POR: PL) Troop leadership: SPL 2 x ASPL QM Scribe Bugler TG Historian Instructor OATR

The old threads are deep in the archives, so... Is anyone up for a round of the Gilwell Song? Here's a Cut and Paste, insert your critter ... I used to be a CRITTER, and a Good Old Critter too, But now I've finished CRITTERING and I don't know what to do. I'm growing old and feeble, and I can CRITTER no more! So I'm going to work my ticket if I can! Back to Gilwell, Happy Land, I'm going to work my ticket if I can! Ground Rules are simple: Wood Badge Order, Please. If a CRITTER doesn't step up in 24 hours, you may emulate that critter with "Somewhere there's a CRITTER" instead of "I used to be a CRITTER" So, it's time for the inevitable question: IS THERE A BEAVER IN THE HOUSE?(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Bears and buffaloes are good for heavy lifting. Eagles and Antelopes are good for getting there quickly. Bobwhites and Foxes ... TASTE LIKE CHICKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKEN! Beavers: What are Beavers good for? Owls: Own the night and conquer the day. John Wise Owls C-40-05

Welcome to the campfire. We'll give you lots of opinion, we can and will give you National policy (and usually back it up with hard quotes), and we'll try to help you... but our feedback is based on what you give us to work with. First, many of us believe the Charter Agreement between BSA and the Chartered Partner (your Troop's host) is an ownership agreement. The Chartered Partner owns your unit outright, and that includes the property, the funds, and the books. The Troop books should be accurate and complete, and available for inspection and audit by the Chartered Partner on demand. As far as parents actually auditing the books? That's a Committee Chair call. Certainly the CC should be able to have the Treasurer account for funds received from a Scout, and for what purpose they go to. Some troops collect small increments weekly; others collect larger chunks twice a year. It's not atypical for unit operations to be $60-75 per boy per year. That's the money which goes into awards, chartering fees, and Boy's Life. Camp fees run from $120-$400 depending on the type of camp per person. You did not mention your position with the unit, are you a Committeeperson, an ASM, or not registered? If you're not a Scouter yet, get an adult leader app and sign up! I hope this rambling helps, I know other Scouters will step up to the keyboard to talk with you. We may ask you questions; it's because we don't think we have enough info to give you our opinions. YIS

Scoutldr, What's done is done, but if this situation ever arises again for anyone I would hope: SM hopefully, at one of the several SM conferences he has with the candidate as they get the Eagle app ready, asks: "Is there anything you need to lay on the table... which might keep an Eagle Board of Review from awarding you your Eagle?" If the Scout says no, then there is a TRUSWORTHINESS issue when the Board sees the letters. That pushes the envelope on the VALUES method. If the Scout says yes, the SM has the responsibility to actively listen, make sure he understands the issue, give feedback to the Scout, and then seek advice and support from the COR, UC, and District Advancement Chair. If the SM says NO, then (assuming local policy is letters of recommendation) SM peruses the letters, identifies the problem before he signs the Eagle app to send it to Council. SM calls an urgent meeting. At the table: - COR or IH - DE - UC or DC - DAC Again, the object of the meeting is to lay the issue out on the table and see what possible paths there are for this particular trail. Even before WoodBadge, one of the important life lessons I learned was cross-talk pays off, and knowledge is power... but only when it's shared.

At the same time, there may well be a bride and children who needed him for a variety of roles. There are friends who were going to ask him for heart-heart advice today. My heart goes out to those un-mentioned.

Ed, Lisa has asked you a question. She's not the only one asking the question. We want to hear your approach to this, because if we're confronted with the issue, we'll have a starting point. How do you propose to obtain your answers...?