John-in-KC

Lisa'Bob, as she so often does, hit the nail on the head. I endorse every last word of her post. The Scoutmasters first service is the mentorship, growth, and development of his charges. That's the Troop as a whole in general, and the SPL, other POR's, and PLC in particular. Anything else you do needs to be prioritized relative to your service as the Program officer of your Troop. If you have a need for an MBC, as a Program Officer, you can either ask your CC to help find you one (adult recruiting is a support side function), or you can ask yourself. Given your time needs, I think asking your CC to take the recruiting burden from you is a good idea. You do need to make sure, with your CC, that your new MBCs are trained. I don't know how your District conducts training. As I said earlier, my District uses RT as a "one stop shop" for all unit service needs with the Commissioner Service, the Professional Service, and the District Commitee. YIS.

Great advice here. Now, as to the capabilities of any one campsite,... The day is done when a group of people could go to a camp, set up shop, have fun, and then pack up and go home. Some leader (if Boy Scouts or Venturing, preferably with a couple of youth) really should make a site visit. Find out the preferred practices, if any. Even on a backcountry expedition, there is a NFS, NPS, State or local ranger station responsible for that area. The rangers can give great advice. If not, follow best practices of LNT.

Dluders, When you said your last, my sympathy for your situation went South. You say yourself "Although I admit that I prefer just working with only the Scouts in my own troop,". Sorry, it doesn't cut it. A Scouter is Helpful. As a Scoutmaster, you should be recruiting additional adults in your Troop to counsel MBs! Then, you should be getting them to MB Counselor training (in my District, the Advancement Committee sponsors this EVERY MONTH at roundtable). If you were to work with the DAC and other area Scoutmasters to use all your resources (gee, didn't I have that beaten into my head at Wood Badge?), you might find there is a far smaller shortage than you really thought. If you really, truly want to tilt at this windmill, you need to coordinate through your COR. Remember, the Chartered Partner is licensee of record of Boy Scouting. Scouters are simply agents of the the CP. They may want you to conserve your ammunition for what he thinks is the truly important issue.

The only restrictions are "on your honor" types: A PROGRAM OFFICER (Scoutmaster, Cubmaster, Crew Advisor, Team Coach) is ex officio a member of a unit committee, and cannot be chartered in his unit as a committeeman. A PROGRAM OFFICER should hold no other Scouting job: He's to work with his youth. He has mentorship, growth, development, and supervisory responsibilities. A COMMISSIONER should not hold jobs down in the trenches. Den Leaders can concurrently be on Committees (not always the best idea, they have lots to do in leading their charges). ASMs can be on other committees. Committeemen in one unit can be assistant program people in another. There is ONE Chartered Organization Representative for all units under the sponsorship of the Chartered Partner. There is ONE Executive Officer of the chartered Partner.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Fred, Thanks. So it's not free. Why does that not surprise me? Will pass this along to my friend the DC. John

Let's look at the Guide itself. As always, the boldface is National rules and policies, and there are other source documents mandating these events. As our friend Beavah will remind us, the Guide is not a substitute for common sense. It's a set of reactions to a host of lawsuits and risk management decisions to meet demands of BSA's liability insurer. http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss12.html Automobiles It is essential that adequate, safe, and responsible transportation be used for all Scouting activities. Because most accidents occur within a short distance from home, safety precautions are necessary, even on short trips. General guidelines are as follows: 1. Seat belts are required for all occupants. 2. All drivers must have a valid driver's license that has not been suspended or revoked for any reason. If the vehicle to be used is designed to carry more than 15 persons, including the driver (more than 10 persons, including the driver, in California), the driver must have a commercial driver's license (CDL). 3. An adult leader (at least 21 years of age) must be in charge and accompany the group. 4. The driver must be currently licensed and at least 18 years of age. Youth member exception: When traveling to and from an area, regional, or national Boy Scout activity or any Venturing event under the leadership of an adult (at least 21 years of age) tour leader, a youth member at least 16 years of age may be a driver, subject to the following conditions: a. Six months' driving experience as a licensed driver (time on a learner's permit or equivalent is not to be counted) b. No record of accidents or moving violations c. Parental permission granted to the leader, driver, and riders 5. Passenger cars or station wagons may be used for transporting passengers, but passengers should not ride on the rear deck of station wagons. 6. Trucks may not be used for transporting passengers except in the cab. 7. All driving, except short trips, should be done in daylight. 8. All vehicles must be covered by automobile liability insurance with limits that meet or exceed requirements of the state in which the vehicle is licensed. 9. It is recommended that coverage limits are at least $50,000/$100,000/$50,000. Any vehicle designed to carry 10 or more passengers is required to have limits of $100,000/$500,000/$100,000. 10. Do not exceed the speed limit. 11. Do not travel in convoy (see "Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings," No. 2). 12. Driving time is limited to a maximum of 10 hours and must be interrupted by frequent rest, food, and recreation stops. If there is only one driver, the driving time should be reduced and stops should be made more frequently. Don't drive drowsy. Stop for rest and stretch breaks as needed. Fatigue is a major cause of highway accident fatalities. OK, I pulled this down on 4/11/07. As I read #4, I see no exceptions for the under-18 rule. Troop meeting, local outing, overnight, OA event, Scout camp or Council seasonal employment, it doesn't matter. That's where the common sense comes in. How many ???-18 YO Scouts take themselves to troop meetings or their summer jobs at Scout camp? As for the leaving of the meeting, Ed is right. It's SM conference time. What's going on that the young man is bored to tears?

Case 1: Our Council Protestant Committee runs a program each year. Our district has one site, there are others in other Districts. We use the PRAY curriculum for Protestant God and Country awards family. At the end, we have a couple of big graduation ceremonies at the host church. Packs, Troops, and Crews follow up with square knots at next COH. Case 2: There are lots of youth who earn their awards on their own (last year Heart of America Council was first in the nation with 777 Protestant awards) . We have had Pastors of parishes and/or Elders (in several cases, an Eagle Scout and Warrior in Mic-o-Say) present the award and the square knot as part of a Troop COH. HTH.

Son's troop first used SPL email to youth (or their parents in their behalf), with SM email to parents as backup. Let's be honest, folks: How many of our kids do we trust to accurately communicate the right message everytime? Subsequently, we've migrated to a yahoo groups listserv. HTH.

HE IS RISEN!! HE IS RISEN INDEED!!! "The Strife is O'er, the Battle Done" 1. Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia! The strife is o'er, the battle done; Now is the Victor's triumph won; Now be the song of praise begun. Alleluia! 2. Death's mightiest powers have done their worst, And Jesus hath His foes dispersed; Let shouts of praise and joy outburst. Alleluia! 3. On the third morn He rose again Glorious in majesty to reign; Oh, let us swell the joyful strain! Alleluia! 4. He closed the yawning gates of hell; The bars from heaven's high portals fell. Let songs of praise His triumph tell. Alleluia! 5. Lord, by the stripes which wounded Thee. From death's dread sting Thy servants free That we may live and sing to Thee. Alleluia! The Lutheran Hymnal Hymn #210 Text: Ps. 98:1 Author: unknown, 1695 Translated by: Francis Pott, c. 1859, alt. Titled: "Finita iam sunt praelia" Composer: Giovanni P. Da Palestrina, 1591, ad. Tune: "Palestrina" Blessed Easter, John PS: Clear and 16F in Kansas City. The Ag station is talking about folks plowing under the wheat crop and replanting corn.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I agree with jblake here. I would also state that as a Committeeman and a parent, the issue of cursing is appropriate for new business at a Troop Committee meeting. The SM is the program officer, if he is taking hits over something relatively simple to fix, he'll get the point. If the SM doesn't get the point, there are quite possbily other and bigger problems in the Troop.... and it's time to look at moving on.

GB, LNT or no, wash water should not be retained after its heating. Not every germ and/or bacterium is killed merely by boiling. Botulism, as one extreme example, requires an internal temp of 240F before its killed off. Germs and bacteria can grow above freezing. That's why food inspectors in commercial businesses are so pedantic about lukewarm food temps and condemnation of product. Are you using a disinfectant (extra chlorination) in your wash water to keep it between sessions? When I was in the Army, had my battery cooks done something like this, they'd be up for non-judicial punishment. Keep your Scouts healthy; minimize risk, strain and drain the grey water after breakfast and again after supper.

OK, so I put up the link for the Boy Scout RT Guide yesterday. A good friend, a DC in another District, asked me if I had seen a Cub RT guide online. Today's question: Is there a Cub RT Guide and has anyone seen it online?? OR, as I suspect, I'm going to have to point her to that good old standby moneymaker of Supply Corporation, Cub Scout Program Helps"?? Thanks in advnace for any help. A negative is as good as a postive here... the negative means I can stop searching.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

The Revolutionary Trails Council, from Utica NY, is one of the Councils which has joined the information age. They've posted the 2007-8 Boy Scout Roundtable Guide into their Resources site. KUDOS! to them for doing this; I've passed it on to my District Commissioner, a friend who is DC in another district, and my BS RT Commish: http://www.doubleknot.com/openrosters/DocDownload.asp?id=11497

The actual Scouting theme is "Special Cooking:" http://www.boyscouts-ncac.org/documents.cfm?documentID=1871 NOTE: The National Capital Area Council puts the RT guide on the web!!! Huge help for us volunteer RT staffers in the rest of the country, thanks NCAC!!! Special Cooking gives you huge room for play: Charcoal Grilling is in Duth Ovens are in Backpacking Stoves are in Home-drying fruit and jerky is in! (High energy, high protein backpacking foods!) Cooking over open fires is in Repackaging commercial foods for the trail is in. (anyone made box mac and cheese using NF dry milk?) If your facility host will let you, having a camp iron chef cookoff would be in. Designate the basic ingredients and the means of heating (ie, backpacking stove, camp stove, bbq, open fire, dutch oven), and let youth and leaders both run wild. While the cub theme is not the same as the boy theme, make sure the cub leaders know what's going on. It can be educational for them, or there may be some who want to compete!!! YIS John A RT Staffer

One Caution: This is from what a friend in a Pack tells me: The internet recharter process requires the unit to input the correct mix of program and support Scouters before it will release the Charter to processing! I do not know if it will let a CC take a 2d position as a DL. This is something worth asking your District Committee Membership Chairman!

Mr or Ms Wildweasel, The shortest and safest path to ensure the youth as well as the adults stay around Scouting is abandon the equipment and any general funds. THEN, each family transfers their Scout and Scouters to other area Packs, Troops, Teams or Crews (whichever applies). If the Chartered Partner, for any number of reasons, says they are acting in good faith in the best interests of themselves and Scouting, the Scouters inside the unit will be the ones on the short end of the stick. Many of us here have listened to lots of stories, and told a few. If you ask others who are regulars on this Forum, you'll find we pretty well understand we never have even one full side of the story, let alone both sides. Sometimes we don't even give out our full stories. I stated this before, and I state it again: What are they not doing to live up to the Charter Agreement? If the Chartered Partner is living up to the Charter Agreement, attempting to shift the unit is a high-risk proposition for the Scouters involved. OTOH, if the Chartered Partner is not meeting the elements of the Agreement, then the local Council, through professionals and district/council volunteers, will be far more amenable to change. I wish you well. YIS

ASM162, Welcome to our Campfire. Coffee's over in the pot. Lisa's a Woodbadger... a BobWhite in fact. She's been part of her District training team. IIRC she's trying to fix TCC in her own District because of her frustration with the quality of training given. You're right, we're almost all volunteers in this business. Even so, we need to place the right people in the right positions, where they can make a difference. Garbage in, garbage out training only perpetuates the myth that Scoutings' training support is garbage. National furnishes us good stuff, but we have to learn how to facilitate groups, demonstrate, coach, and enable adult learning! YIS John A Good Old Owl Too... C-40-05

Camping??? First year???? Even the most conservative camping log would be hard pressed to meet the days and nights in the woodline requirment! Please explain further, I'm not seeing the logic of this MB for a TF/2d Class Scout. YIS

And not following the Insignia Guide when it comes to my jacket affects my Scouting Paycheck HOW??? Oh. It takes a zero off of it. A whole order of magnitude. 0 - 0 = .... volunteer time and energy.

Talk with your Unit or District Commisioner. Talk with your District Executive. Then, the CC should visit with the Executive Officer of the Chartered Partner and the COR. This will be a formal business meeting. Dot the i's, cross the t's. Why? 1) How many units are under charter? If you are the only unit, then the CP is relinquising the charter. They can be asked, legitimately, to transfer equipment and funds to the new CP. 2) If, however, there is more than one unit under charter, and yours is the only unit migrating, the Chartered Partner CAN ASSERT THE RIGHT to retain the equipment, and the funds, for use in the Scouting program. One other caution: Councils keep book on CCs and SM/CM/Adv who move units among chartered partners. A good friend was at risk of having her dues remitted by the BSA local Council and being told her membership was revoked ... for upsetting too many CP relationships. More important than all this is "why do you want to change Chartered Partners?" What are they not doing to live up to the Charter Agreement? Have you had your UC and DE pay calls on them? Have you tried to work through the problem? Remember, the Charter is a license of the Scouting program to a community organization, to advance the interests of youth citizenship!(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

My District Advancement Chairman, and his Eagle BOR guests, tells the Eagle Candidate: "Congratulations, as of this moment you are an Eagle Scout." The DAC also tells the CC that if a Scout's paperwork is returned to contact him immediately. Remember, for a due-course Scout (meaning no appeals needed), the only item which goes to Council for pre-board approval is the app. After the EBOR, the only item which goes through Council to National is the app. Good unit practices: - Scout pencils in his app. - Unit advancement coordinator and SM check the data on the app, to include dates of awards. - Advancement Coordinator or SM coordinate with the DE for a copy of the the ScoutNet record (or use online advancement) as a followup check. - Whoever takes the app to Council for approval to have the EBOR also takes an advancement report of the Scouts' history ... just in case.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I've seen too many units where Lisa's first comment was appropo To me, serving actively in a POR is not a measure of attendance, it's a measure of work done. Let's use Troop QM for an example: - Are the tents turned in aired and in good repair? Does QM take care of things he sees needing work? - Is the cast iron properly oiled off and prepped for storage? - Are the patrol boxes properly equippeed and re-stocked (is Troop QM working with patrol QMs and grubmasters)? - Are the gas bottles (big and little) ready for use? If the Scout consistently passes muster with the equipment over time, then yes, he's fulfilling his POR. He may be spending most of his troop meetings in grubby clothes working. That's ok. BTW, a new QM will either need a mentor from one of the older boys or from the TC equipment coordinator. His job is to actively serve, NOT do 100% discovery learning. Extrapolate the concept to the other PORs of a Troop. Whose call? At the end of the day, it's the SM... and I trust he is consulting with the various TC members responsible for oversight of the functions performed by the Scouts.

Very Wonderful, Michelle. May I offer that to start his trail to Eagle, there are advantages to concurrently working his Personal Fitness and his physical activity group MB (eg hiking, cycling and swimming). He can build his training rides/hikes into his exercise plan. First Class: The badge of better boyhood!

Cannot speak for all Councils... In my Council... 0xxx stands for Boy Scout Troops, on the Kansas side. 1xxx stands for Boy Scout Troops, on the Missouri side. 2xxx stands for Venturing Crews, Councilwide. 3xxx stands for Cub Scout Packs, on the Kansas side. 4xxx stands for Cub Scout Packs, on the Missouri side. The leading digit (0-4) is an accounting tool needed in this era of computers. The other 3 digits are the unit number most of us know and love. Waaay back when, units were numbered sequentially. Pack/Troop 1 was the senior unit in town... you can take it from there.

Write-up? I don't remember a write-up. I remember sharing ticket items with my TG as each approached completion. I remember a final working evening with my TG, where we reflected on the trail behind and looked over the trail ahead. I don't remember any writing though... So, congratulations on getting to ABD (all but done). As we Owls say: BOBWHITES!!! Taste like CHICKENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!