John-in-KC

Like ScoutNut, I'm going to ask questions about why you want to start a Crew? - Do you have young ladies who want to be part of activities? - Do you have young men who are going over 18, but want to be in the youth program, rather than grown-ups? - Do you have a unique activity focus instead of hiking and camping for a program vehicle? - Do you young men who want activities (eg pistol shooting) prohibited by G2SS from Boy Scout Troops? There are tools available, including an "Interest Inventory" to help you decide if a Crew is the right approach. Contact your UC or DE for support on this.

Gern, 64 POUNDS??? That's not backpacking, that's infantry patrol humping. Welcome home, I'm glad the time was good!!!

gwd, Good on you. It's a program decision, and your PLC made it Doesn't matter what we think; it matters that your PLC made a decision. Now they get to keep it going forward

My mistake: We sold our cow. That's the only one that is not at the link above, so... We sold our Cow.... We sold our Cow... We have no use... For your bull now... BTW, thanks to scotteng. I printed those off and am passing them to Eagle Staff son .

I love it when the PD says the "A" word. The staff sings All four verses... Announcements Words of Wisdom Windbag He stole our cow

If we want to be pedantic, the items on the epaulets are TABS. They've been titled that way by the US Army since 1943 or so, when it first started using them. If we want to be pedantic, BSA stole Green Tabs from the Army: We've been using Green denote combat line chain of command positions since WWII. It is the very green BSA uses. The difference is, we used, and continue to use, felt. BSA chose a ribbon form. I would endorse Gunny's thought, except, not being a Marine, I'd simplify things (Take the Fire out of the Old Lady, Upper Lower Upper... Gunny knows of what I speak...KISS)... Delete the Class C and make LS/SS a PLC decision for basic uniform. Some places, such as FL, CA, and south AZ will never ever need a LS shirt. Heck, here in KC, all I use is short sleeves. Unfortunately, none of us are volunteers on the National Uniform Committee (they gotta have one, they have one for everything else, it's gotta be buried in the Secret Regulations Volunteers Never See In Irving!) Of course, if BSA Supply Corporation were to get off its Fourth Point of Contact and finish getting us gear that has construction, fit and finish suitable for Scouts doing things in the outdoors, rather than for B-P's dreaded "Parlour Scouts," I will gladly surrender the terms Class A and B and go to Activity and Field.! I just bought a pair of Venturing Shorts today for Eagle staff son. I really should have gone to Cabela's. 100% cotton in a loose weave? Hello!!! Someone needs to look at the fabrics such as cotton cavalry twill used by the Army in the 1930s for Khaki uniforms if we're going down this rabbit hole. These things won't last a month in field use, and at $28 a pair (staff discount of 25%) he and I can still get better stuff at Cabela's, REI, Tooth of Time, or Bass Pro. Here ends the stream of concsiousness...

Screw up, move up? Sounds to me like the young man has not achieved his Peter Principle level yet. Cynically, John

Philemon 8-22 Paul's Plea for Onesimus 8 Therefore, although in Christ I could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, 9 yet I appeal to you on the basis of love. I then, as Paulan old man and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus 10 I appeal to you for my son Onesimus, who became my son while I was in chains. 11 Formerly he was useless to you, but now he has become useful both to you and to me. I am sending himwho is my very heartback to you. I would have liked to keep him with me so that he could take your place in helping me while I am in chains for the gospel. But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do will be spontaneous and not forced. Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back for good no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a man and as a brother in the Lord. So if you consider me a partner, welcome him as you would welcome me. If he has done you any wrong or owes you anything, charge it to me. I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand. I will pay it backnot to mention that you owe me your very self. I do wish, brother, that I may have some benefit from you in the Lord; refresh my heart in Christ. Confident of your obedience, I write to you, knowing that you will do even more than I ask. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thus far the Word of the Lord. As I read this in context, Paul is exhorting Philemon to treat his slave Onesimus no longer as a slave, but as a freedman.

Ogghall, Find out how your Troop organizes data management within the Committee. As OGO noted, he was a data collector for the Committee Secretary. In my case, I actually handled both membership and advancement, keeping Troopmaster and doing online recharter. IMO, the Advancement Chair has to work with the youth. Perhaps even more than the SM, he knows where the youth are. In my experience, he's the one who drops a hint to a PL or a TG to give Billy a nudge; he's one requirement from Second Class. The other really cool part of the position is you get to work with the candidates for Eagle, helping them make sure their paperwork is ready to go. While it's a lamentable life lesson, it's a valid one: The job's not done until the paperworks' complete. Enjoy your time!!!

Amazing what sitting back and watching everyone post, coupled with watching the young staffers work out at Scout Camp, and further coupled with two EBORs, will do for a guy's attitude. Thanks thus far for taking the time to comment. You got me past a blue moment, when Columbine and Virginia Tech and assorted other horrors of American life were getting to me.

I'm not disagreeing with Gonzo, patrol cooking is a good thing. I'm coming to this lamentable opinion, though: Until the National Advancement Committee puts Cooking MB back on the Eagle required list, some Scouters and many Scouts just won't care about cooking their own food at camp. More's the shame. For three summers, including one of truly camping at a Scout Camp (Whitsett, now owned by Western LA Council, then by San Fernando Valley Council), and two on the trail, we cooked. Rich-Moor pilot biscuits, peanut butter, root beer Fizzies and Hershey's Tropical Chocoloate bars have a certain stick-to-the ribs quality in the back-country.

Lone Bear Lodge at the H Roe Bartle Scout Reservaation dates to the 30s. It was where Roe Bartle lived with his family through the summer camping season. The Heart of America Council recapitalized both Theodore Naish and the H Roe Bartle Reservations in the past few years. We still need to re-do the dining halls in the 3 camps at Bartle, but that's probably the last major project for some years to come. Even there, we might get away with re-building the kitchens, since they are the cost-heavy part of a dining hall. The youth are planning a capital drive within the OA Lodge to build themselves a new Great House and ceremony ring. The Tribe of Mic-o-Say is in a capital drive to build a new Lone Bear Council Ring.

1) About a month before COH, I sent the SM a Scout-by-Scout individual history from Troopmaster. I'd save the .txt file and drop it into a Word document. That way he had a baseline 3-4 times a year. 2) I attended meetings; each week I scheduled a different Patrol. I picked up their books at meetings end and took them home for a week (at this time we were too small to justify a Scribe as a POR). 3) Scouts brought me their completed blue cards. I took them home, did the data, and then returned them. 4) Annually, right after recharter, I asked the Council registrar to dump me a report from ScoutNet. That was my annual audit point. Usually there was something missing; occasionally there was a MB which had been input by miscoding. HTH.

I was a soldier for 20+ years. Now, my troops received a gratis initial issue of equipment. If they grew/developed during their first six months, it was replaced with properly sized equipment gratis. Thereafter, my troops received one or more uniform allowances, depending on their skillsets, rank and assignments. All my soldiers received mission clothing and equipment as needed. As it wore out from fair wear and tear, it was replaced in kind. If they lost it, though, they paid for it. My officers got a token initial payment of $300. It just about covers the first Class A green uniform. Their battle dress/ACU, boots, shoes, blues, and impedimenta they had to buy out of their pockets. Like my troops, they got their mission clothing and equipment as needed. My military uniforms are designed for the environment, and are made of fabrics which support mission accomplishment. I'm not asked to wear my Army Green short sleeve shirt into the woods (equivalent item to the de la Renta shirt). BTW, I still use a couple items of field gear, mainly rain tops. They're too rugged not to, especially in high-impact environments. Nessmuk, I ask you withdraw your comparison of US Armed Forces uniforms to Scouting.

Content removed. I'd be threadjacking rather than supportive of what I think B envisioned for this thread.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Simply put, call the Council which operates the camp. My Council does Camp Draw in late October each year. It's a lottery based on unit size. BTW, I'd also get to the PLC in short order and have them make a 1-2-3 list of camps they want to go to next year. LT Camp is a program decision of the first order, it rightly belongs to the youth, guided by the SM.

Our program delivery vehicle is God's Great Outdoors. Knot tying is a skill which is an element of our program delivery. You should have seen me trying to learn to tie a clove hitch as a Tenderfoot. It was the ugliest knot in the universe. Even so, my fin motor skills and hand-eye coordination improved as I went through the basic knots. My doggedness to get it done improved too. I guess I could say it can support the Fitness aim a bit, and for the sake of the discipline of learning, the Character aim.

Trev, One of the Aims of the Grand Game is Character Development. The tools are Cub Promise, Law of the Pack Scout Oath, Law, Motto, and Slogan Venturing Oath All our woods work is designed to inculcate those into a young man, be he 8 or be he (or she in Venturing) be 20. I just spent a day at Scout Camp. A facility needed some loving volunteer attention between uses by program people. After the campers and their leaders left, I watched the youth staff decide what they were doing tonight. One option was the movies. Live Free or Die Hard was an option at the multiplex. They, not their Director or PD, were the ones who said: "Hey, that's R, and we don't need to see it on a work weekend." Now, next weekend: I think they're all going to HP and the Order of the Phoenix. They made the right call, completely on their own.

I want to be Pedro's farrier. The way he goes through horseshoes, I'll have a small mint in shoeing fees as well as in scrap steel! I just wish BL was the full size it was when I was a Cub and Boy Scout (1965-74). This "Time Magazine" size means the kids don't get as much content as they used to.

LongHaul wrote: "If a boy is elected PL just how long to we give him to show that he is doing the job to our satisfaction? One month? Two months? If a PL is elected in April for some reason and does a shaky job (first POR) do we remove him before the summer when many programs dont meet every week? Where is the line between mentoring and micro managing? Where is the SPLs role in this? If time in position is the standard instead of performance must we now seek weekly performance reports on all PORs? Who sets the standard the TC or the SM? How would you write up the MINIMUM standard for the position of PL?" We'll start with the SPL's role. He's the immediate supervisor. Between him and his ASPLs, the tasks get assigned, the oversight happens, and a certain amount, albeit small, of mentoring happens. The SM, to my way of thinking, keeps a longer view, acts as a cheerleader, and does the heavy lifting of mentoring. Go back to WB. Remember the Leadership Psych embedded? A first-time leader, be he one of Gunny's squad leaders or a new Patrol Leader in Scouting, is most likely in the lower right hand quadrant. High direction, relatively low support. As he matures, he will move through the quadrants. Sometimes he'll move backwards. We deal with that. The SM mentors constantly. A question, helping a brainstorm, a word of encouragement, somtimes a "wake-up" call. He makes the call on "how much failure" is OK. Some is. Lessons learned in failure often are stronger than lessons learned in success. Some won't be. You don't let the hamburger spoil for want of ice. Hit the teaching points, and get ice in the cooler! The SM, working with the CC and the Committee, decides in broad terms what risks are acceptable, to my way of thinking. Then, it's time for the Committee to butt out. The SM then watches the Scouts perform. Gee, there's starting to be a common point: The SM watches the kids perform and helps them learn and absorb lessons. Let's remember: 95% of the Scouts who pass through our care will grow and rise to their POR. It's our investment in the last 5% which will take much time, energy, and emotion from us. Finally, if there is an big disconnect between the Scout and his POR, there's probably a backstory. It's our job to find out what the story is, and how we can help make lemonade from the lemons.

B, I will add, if I may: 4) Expects Scouts to be able to make the tough decisions, doing the right thing, when other decisions are the easy thing.

Beavah, Kids used to play in the rain until the thunder got about 10 seconds away. Now, it seems like we shut camp pools down when the first lightning strike is 5 miles away, and we wait until it's 5 miles past. Is that part of a National Camp Standard?

Humanity has much to answer for to God. Slavery. Women as chattel. Wars because we can and could. Lebensraum. Your race is worth your dying for. Even so, at the level of Joe Citizen, do we really value human life as we once did? Is the concept of morals by government without absolute points in bedrock (law from God) really working?

I agree with LongHaul. Over and above that, when I went to school, it was a mile to my elementary (I walked or rode my bike), 2 1/2 miles to my jr high (I rode my bike), and 1/10 of a mile to my HS (I walked). My Eagle... his elementary was 1 1/2 miles away across unprotected 55MPH 2 lane state highway. His middle school was 7 miles away along that very same highway (it becomes 4 lane and 45MPH 3 miles east of us), and his HS is 10 miles away, along 4 lane 55MPH highway. Further, Columbine, VA Tech, assorted other incidents with weapons... when I was a Scout I could carry my Boy Scout knife to school. It was a tool. If he carries a double edged razor to shave in the school bathrooms he's at risk of mandatory suspension and alternative school. The penalty for a genuine live blade is expulsion. I'll ask the quesion in issues and politics. It belongs there!

As of the Fifth of July, Scoutstuff is reporting the following for the Boy Scout and Scouter male short sleeve shirt: 1) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: 7/31/2007 2) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: 7/31/2007 3) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: 7/2/2007 4) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: Unknown 5) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: 7/31/2007 6) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: Unknown 7) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: 7/31/2007 8) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: 7/20/2007 9) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: 7/20/2007 10) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: 7/20/2007 11) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: 7/20/2007 12) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: 7/20/2007 13) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: 7/31/2007 14) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: 7/31/2007 15) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: 7/31/2007 16) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: 7/31/2007 17) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: 7/31/2007 18) Item is temporarily unavailable. Anticipated in-stock date: 7/31/2007 Source: http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?ctlg=05NDC&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=UNIFORMS&C3=USHIRTS&C4=&LV=3&item=BSSSS That is every size and fabric combination on the site. Sheesh...