John-in-KC

Just a comment: President signed into law a change to the US Flag Code last year. Veterans, at any time and any place, may render Honors to the Nation with the Armed Forces hand salute.

Gotta love the integrity of some parents... Sigh.

Welcome to the Forums. Ed and nldscout both have said it, and I'll say it a 3d time. We need more of - What exactly happened. - When did it happen (context being troop meeting, camp, trail, outside of Scouting). - Where did it happen (again, context being troop facility, Scout Camp, Council offices)... In most disciplinary matters, I'd be looking to the Scoutmaster first. He/she should have lots of support resources to hand, including the Chartered Organization Representative and the Unite Commissioner.

In amplifying Ed's comment, remember that Camping MB and OA requirements differ: IIRC OA requires minimum 5 nights of LT camping, and a total of 15 Camping MB leaves LT camp to counselor discretion, and totals 20 days and nights.

Sweet Mercy. This is not a time to be thinking "Uniform Police." This is a time to think in terms of the Oath and Law, and being a credit to all of us. First things first!

I was told by my Professional that the rule is 1/1, twins and triplets are known exceptions to that rule.

Welcome to the Forums. Never mind the uniform. Shows like this or "Survivor" to me are nearly the height of selfishness. OTOH, were I to see a Troop giving service hours laying sod or putting in plants for Extreme Makeover, Home Edition... that would be closer to honoring our Oath and Law.

Ed, Actually, Matt 23:11-12 is a better verse: The greatest among you will be your servant. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. A parallel set of verses is Mark 10: 41-45: When the ten heard about this, they became indignant with James and John. Jesus called them together and said, "You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

Oh, I also blame Governor Graves, and Governor Finney, and Governor Hayden, and... I remember the first time I saw them picketing a Walgreens drugstore in Topeka. That was the 80s. They were sick then, they were sick now.

GW, I work on Forth Leavenworth. Melissa Etheridge is a graduate of Leavenworth High School. In fact, one of my co-workers is her parents across the street neighbor. She gave a freebie for friends a few years back. Westboro picketed that. Patriot Riders was formed because Westboro pickets our fallen Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines funerals. If you're thinking Westboro Baptist operates on logic, sorry. They operate on vitriol and invective.

I was physically sickened by that "Will no one rid us of those meddlesome Topekans?" That will be great fodder for the local drivetime talkradio. ETA: If Kathleen Sebelius gets the Democratic nod for VP, Republicans should remind folks that she could not keep folks in her own city quiet.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I think Gunny might back me up on this... Spent too many years carrying an M-16 on patrol. My trigger finger was normally, usually, generally on the pistol grip of my weapon. It could get to the trigger fast enough. Even laying down suppressive fire, there is no need to have your finger always on the trigger. What's one of those maxims? "Friendly fire...isn't."

EagleSon did not call home until he earned his first merit badge his first year. After that, he put some pre-addressed post cards in his gear. One read: Hi Mom, having fun. Please come to Visitor's Sunday. Love, ... He welcomed being away from home Starting his 4th year, I only came for Tribal Ceremonies, and gave him room to be himself. As I write this, he's in London with a HS band tour, as his HS graduation present. Too many parents are hovering with their kids; I told him simply "Be the young adult, Eagle and Christian man you are." I have no doubts he'll have fun.

Kudu wrote: "PORs were invented by the same people who invented the "urban emphasis" system of Skill Awards and Merit Badges to allow the urban demographic a path to Eagle Scout without a single camping trip. The idea is that you don't need to go camping to learn Character, Fitness, and Citizenship." Oh, horsehockey. My Scouting was done on the 7th Edition of the Boy Scout Handbook (that means 1968-74 for those in Rio Linda). My brother was older enough to use the 6th Edition (1961-66). I still have mine. The jobs I held in my Troop, either by election or Warrant, include: - Patrol Leader - Scribe - Instructor - Senior Patrol Leader All of those counted, even then. Yes, the buzzword POR is part of the 70s, as were skill awards. Wanna know something else? Two of the Citizenships were on my Eagle Required MB list.

TroopMaster did a great job for my unit. We defined the trainings, and put them in!

ccjj, While what you cited (14-111) has some governance, there is also another pub: National Standards for Local Council Family Camping, No. 13-408. It's cited in the references of 2008 National Resident Camp Standards. The 1/1 ratio is enshrined as a G2SS standard http://www.scouting.org/healthandsafety/gss/gss03.aspx Cub Scout Overnight Opportunities Cub Scouts may experience overnight activities in venues other than accredited resident camping. There are two categories of Cub Scout overnighters: Council-Organized Family Camp Council-organized family camps are overnight events involving more than one pack. The local council provides all of the elements of the outdoor experience, such as staffing, food service, housing, and program. These are often referred to as Parent/Pal or Adventure weekends. Council-organized family camps should be conducted by trained leaders at sites approved by the local council. In most cases, the youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult. Overnight activities involving more than one pack must be approved by the council. Council-organized family camps must be conducted in accordance with established standards as given in National Standards for Council-Organized Family Camping, No. 13-408. So does anyone have a copy of 13-408??(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Lisa, Well spoken. Thanks for doing what you do in both your day job and in Scouting You're doing more than many to prepare young Americans for their lifelong responsibilities

RJS... 1/1 parent to youth is both a NATIONAL CAMP STANDARD on the camp side and a G2SS mandate on the unit side for Council operated resident camps below Webelos. There can be exceptions: We will have triplets at our camp this summer. Dad supervises all 3. Basementdweller, I'd have a talk with your Council Professionals, with your Unit Commissioner, and with your Cubmaster. You have the right to be comfortable in the camp experience for your own child. BTW, 2-deep is actually covered in the context of all the youth and all the adults at a Resident Camp. Your bigger challenge is the 1/1 ratio.

Stosh, Why aren't you taking your own patrol boxes, dining flys, ad infinitum? When I was a youth, my first year was at a traditional (patrol cooking camp). We brought the gear we needed in the Troop trailer.

Yep, plan and train skills needed for coming camps. Have a good hard game. If the adults are talking, get with your SM, and get them to hush. You youth take control of the meeting, through the PLC. Ask your SM to send you to NYLT. Ask him to intervene with Council if needed. Sounds like a few tools in your own toolbox which you know how to use would be a useful thing

Wally, who is a 2009 WB CD, wrote in the NYLT changes thread... Is Wood Badge just about "the beads"? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Wally, If it's just about the beads, I'll be the first in line to meet you at a campfire, so we can throw our beads into the fire. I somehow got this vague idea that WB was about instilling a heart for lifelong service of youth in Scouters ... and that it specifically trained or retrained leadership psychology and sociology along the way. Oh well. I can only be responsible for myself.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

The schedule the youth in my Lodge have... 2 induction weekends in May. We average 250 Ordeal members and 150 Brotherhoods at each. 3 inductions during Scout Camp. Weds eve-Thurs eve. These are small, intimate gatherings. 1 induction weekend in August. Another 250/150. There are also 40K youth members in our Council! Fall Fellowship in September. That's the Vigil Call Vigil in October Winter banquet in January. + NOAC, + Section, ...

I think "Spirit of the Eagle" may well be an appropriate award for the youth taken from us in this sadness. ACP&P #33088 has details. I would hope the District and Council Advancement Committee concerned are pro-actively thinking.

Is Ron Paul?

Your first Ordeal is this weekend? Heck, this week at Scout Camp was our Fourth Ordeal of seven we will do this year. Actually, I like Ordeals and Brotherhood Ceremonies during Scout Camp... far, far more intimate than the hundreds of folks at a pop of Induction Weekends. OTOH, Ranger gets a lot of labor for a lot of his projects on Induction weekends.