John-in-KC

The Obligation has been on the back of my cards... since at least my first card in 1970. I've never seen the Admonition on the reverse side.

Kudu, I'm a little slow... I'm 51 and EagleSon is 19. I know a lot of families who are more than a little bit faster... 50 is not an unreasonable age for a 3d generation. I know some families who are a lot faster. Now, I happen to think 40 is pushing the envelope for a 3d generation, but I know families where the 3d generation happens at 36. 40 years is a valid time period for someone to say "it's been around for generations." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On the subject of youth elections: They have their own value. Look at some of the folk we grownups have put in positions of high responsibility since 1991. Federal, State, local... we've chosen some real pieces of work? Why not teach the youth that electing the wrong person has consequences? The Grand Game was designed to be a laboratory for adult life. Let them fail by making a sub-par choice. The youth will learn from it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I happen to agree with Beavah. The National Advancement Committee took the path of least resistance to solving their problem. I suspect some of Beavah's day job peers were giving advice based on previous results. When we're dealt lemons by National, at least this time we can make lemonade. If we (unit serving Scouters in particular) resolve to train, to coach, to cheerlead, to encourage, to motivate, and sadly, on occasion, to remove... we'll get these young people through their warrant office time with some experience, some wisdom, and some improvement for our Troops as a whole. The trick is: We have to have standards, be consistent, and start when the youth is thinking about a Troop office... not after he has the badge, and certainly not 4 months after the time block is complete.

I see others have already picked up these reports. This is a sadness, indeed. Prayers for families, Scouts, Scouters, and staff. For Joe McDoaks: I've been on Commissioner staff at both my Scout camps. Severe thunderstorms and tornadoes are in the top 5 of disaster response plans. There are not a lot of structures suitable for severe storm shelter, let alone tornado shelter on our camps. Frankly, Plan A is the nearest significant ravine. I'm grateful both our Reservation Rangers are key players in their County emergency management staffs.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Sven, At the level you propose, it's not Scouting. It's the business of Scouting. My Council is a multi-million dollar not-for-profit corporation. Don't know about yours. That's just the annual revenue, not counting real property and improvements. The people you will work with on an Executive Board routinely handle big idea, big ticket decisions. If you think you will not be vetted to the Nth degree, you've another think coming. I'm not a huge ticket FOS donor. I expect the same due diligence in business decisions from a Council Executive Board as I do from the companies I hold stock in within my IRA. I say again: If you want this position, do your utmost to make anything which causes you to be perceived as less than a fantastic team player go away quickly.

For CP... Where in ACP&P #33088 does it say the Council (or echelons above reality up to National) Advancement Committee will not entertain an appeal short of Eagle? As a practical matter I can see that, but I see nothing in the policy saying that... Thanks in advance

Again, not knowing what your council put forth... In my Council, Tot Lot reaches from 6months to 13 years, 359 days. If a youth is 14 and completed 8th grade, we have a simple answer: They join a Venturing Crew and we put them on staff.

Gunny, I violently agree with your last paragraph. In the meantime, hay-foot, straw-foot, every day ... and your Troop will get there. I also like what you said about this being the first time they've ever held fundamental responsibility.

Perception is reality. If the SE or the Council President believes you are a gadfly and an advocate, it does not help your candidacy. Old evidence left behind after a decision is made reinforces a belief of gadflyism and advocacy. Help yourself, help other people you want perceiving you as a passionate young man. Get with the evidence owner and make it go from the current internet. It'll still be on places like the internet wayback machine, but only certifiable geeks like me go there. If you want to play at the level you propose, passion matters, but so does followership. Once decisions get made, the Board follows the decision.

Welcome to the Forums. In our Council, Heaven Help the DE who has non-BSA kids out in the camp. That's what TOT LOT is for. In fact, there is a National Camp Standard for Day Camps covering Tot Lots. Non-BSA children are supposed to be in Tot Lot. That said, I don't know what your Councils' rules are. If they're signing up all comers, well, I'd hope that's a decision your Council Executive Board and SE made in the full light of day.

First, Adult Association is a Method of Scouting. I think it's reasonable to expect the Scoutmaster to be hands-on in mentorship of his charges, particularly those in PORs. There are plenty of BSA materials out there which describe what a Scout is expected to do in his POR. To me, the bottom line is... POR performance expectations must begin before the Scout is ever selected/elected. If you've not told the youth what the job looks like before they decide to go for it, shame on a Troops adult leadership. If you've not told the parents what the job looks like before they permit their child to go for it, shame on a Troops adult leadership. If you don't provide necessary training as the young man steps into the job (including technical skills he may not yet have), shame on a Troops adult leadership. (Yes that training may well come from another youth... that's ok). If the SM, ASMs and committee people with "technical" folios are not observing constantly, giving praise as appropriate, and encouraging where needed, shame on a Troops adult leadership. If the SPL and ASPL are not out there, planning and coordinating together with the PLC, and if they are not giving peer thanks for work being done, shame on them and the Troops adult leadership. Communicate. Constantly. Both Ways. Listen. Listen more than talk. Observe. If the adults and the youth leadership care about the next cycle as well as their current cycle, a Troop will have constant cross-talk which helps get things done, young men will grow, and the Troop should never encounter the bad news situation the current ACP&P puts SMs in when time is up. Set the bar higher than "patch wearing equals POR completion." My thoughts.

I really like what SA said. The Good Lord willing, this Troop did everything right... not just by the book, RIGHT. Lots of common sense. Even so, We won't know for many weeks, if indeed ever. Prayers are what the family, the Scouts, and the Scouters need. That's what I'm giving them.

That's a thought Neill. Now... Will an LDS Troop accept non-LDS Scouters running a BOR? I'd sure like to hear how this follows up....

If you are over the issue, it might help matters if you took the website down. Perception can be reality.

For me, as long as the Den Leader is convinced Mom and Dad are folk of integrity, who sign off for a kid doing their best... ... What did Garfield say 10 years ago?... Too much fun is never enough! Too much deserved recognition is never enough either. (Integrity issues are a sad and different matter altogether).

Gern, PM me pls. EagleSon took his Grandpa's WWII oral history, including his time as a Japanese POW. Interesting read.

Morality can be absolute. The 10 Commandments are but one example of an absolute morality. Morality can be relative. "The end justifies the means" is but one example of relative morality. If you believe in Dr Pangloss from Candide, that "This is the best of all possible worlds...", then you look at the drift and wonder what's going on. If you believe in Romans 3:19-20 (and Romans 3:23), you say "yep, we humans are being dumb sheep... again." I happen to start from the latter POV.

You may want to see my comment about BSA's open source project in the Open Discussion/Program forum. If the National IT folks can't get something that simple correct, there's a completely different term used locally for their kind of IT. Trust me, it's far below the line for this site. They deserve that localism. Those folks are getting pretty good money (no IT person comes cheap anymore); they need to show that they earn it. National IT deserves what it is getting from me. I'll tell that to Chris Wolfe's face as well.

https://opensource.scouting.org/ [ rant ] Another opportunity to feel the love for the folks at the National IT shop. They can't even post the correct, current certificate so your box handshakes encrypted with their servers. The irony of this is they're asking developers to step up to the plate and help the effort... and they can't get something as simple as the correct domain on the certificate right. For more fun, the library is empty. The proposals are empty. Reeks of "we'll know what we want when we see it" management. Take a look at the usage stats: https://opensource.scouting.org/usage/ Quick blip in May, but 1/3 through June, National IT is not on track to get anything really going. One of the keypeople at USScouts came to our OA winter banquet a couple years back. You'd think National IT has some vague idea of who is doing what in software and webwork for Scouting these days. You think they'd put together a consulting community with some named players as they roll out this initiative. Yes, this goes right along with MyScouting. [ /rant ]

Couple of comments: 1) Badges should be given as they are earned!! Advancement and recognition are Methods of all the programs in Scouting. Nothing will kill a young boys interest as fast as the fact that he sees what he's doing as homework! Every month, every Pack meeting, give the badges to the boys. Many units make a sole exception for B&G though. 2) If you give a good program, they will come. If you are the CM, concentrate on two tasks: Having the best, most jam-packed, fun-filled Pack meeting imaginable... this is a time to see big smiles on their faces. Then, work with your Den Leaders (you are the go-to guy on Program), to ensure what they do dovetails with the monthly themes, helps the kids have fun at weekly Den meetings, and helps the kids have fun at monthly Pack meetings. It's June! A wiener and marshmallow roast at a local campfire goes over really, really well for 8-10 year olds. A pool party coupled with a wiener and marshmallow roast goes over even better. If needed, keep the party going for several hours, so families can plug-in/punch-out as they need to!

Very cool, you will find teaching is a better tool for locking in learning than taking the course itself. Enjoy your service as a TG. Keep plugging away to the Eagle.

Prayers for the family of the lost Scout. Prayers for the Scouter who was with him in that canoe. Beyond that, there are lots of questions which may only come out in a coroner's inquest, if he chooses to have one. All I can hope is the unit did the very best preparation for this particular stretch of white water possible.

Michael, That is very cool. Trust me, you will stumble. Not a one of us here has not stumbled in early leadership (or in life). When you stumble, stop, think back on what happened and why, resolve to avoid that stumble again, apologize if you hurt anyone in particular, and then press on. See if you can still get to your Council's NYLT training this summer. It will be worth it as you serve your patrol. If you hit roadblocks, ask your SM to run some interference with the Reservation Director or the District Commissioner.

Guy, I went out-of-council for mine, but I was already encountering the same folk at OA, Scout Camp, FOS, MOS, RT, and campmastering. If you aren't well networked yet, take it in council. If you are well-networked, then expand your network and go out-of-council. Either way, have fun. John I used to be an OWL...

"Give them great program and they will come." H Roe Bartle Scout Executive, Kansas City 1930-1952 Mayor, Kansas City, 1953-61 Chief Lone Bear in the Tribe of Mic-o-Say Our challenge: Giving the great program

I wrote that on 5/29. It's 6/10 now... that's oh, 12 days. IIRC the limit for voluntary edits is something under 12 hours. BTW, if I were to have a beer with Chieftain Eagle From the Sun, Jim Terry, the current Deputy, Chief Scout Executive, I would tell that to his face. Then I'd drop my next FOS check. I work for an IT firm. I know what can be done with distributed databases and information sharing. That the National Council IT office cannot/will not aggressively implement information sharing, especially to the person who is the information subject, is marginally short of thievery of our annual fees. My thoughts.