John-in-KC

Ed, I understand the issues of identity theft. They can be serious. I also think the option of going to the local Council Registrar gives folks a viable Plan B. At the end of the day, it's Mr or Ms Acid Test's call, and his chance to enjoy the Adult Association Method with other Scouters. Yes, I believe Adult Association is as much about the adults as it is about the kdis.

I second Lisa's point, and continue to refer to my rant for the limpwristed application MyScouting is at this point. Makes me wonder where all the foundation and big bucks dollars National BSA gets go to?

At the level you are currently in Cub Scouting, this isn't quite a non-issue. You can be an active parent, but do not have to be an adult member of BSA. Your tough choices will come when it's time for your son to be in a Webelos Den, or go to Scout Camp. If you want anything other than the visitor's evening, you will have to make a choice. I made my choice, years ago. I've been through more than 1 identity check. I've not looked back.

In my Council, leaders who do not want to divulge SSN to others may go to the Council office and divulge it directly to the Registrar. Here are the questions only you can answer: If you are part of your units baseline for 2-deep leadership at Scout Camp, who is able to take your place? OR!!! Is your unit in a position where if you do not go, the youth do not go to Scout Camp? If so, who tells them? I wish you well.

Sven, A very important rule of life: Never, ever, ever burn a bridge behind you unless you choose to do it with malice and forethought. You never know when someday you might need that bridge. Read, very carefully, what BW just wrote. Are you really sure you want to take that next step? Trust me, the Council President and VPs know how the political game plays, and they do it better than most in their day jobs. I don't care if you're in the Timbuktu Area Council, that's a truism. Tread lightly, for ramrodding yourself in does not mean you will be given rewarding and worthwhile tasks.

Oh, horsehockey. First, there's a reason most packs schedule Blue and Gold in February: It's a birthday party, for the Boy Scouts of America! Second, consistency matters. When a date bounces year to year, folks tend to take it off their calendars. Third, who is having fun at your B&G? There's a reason folks keep saying KISMIF with the Cub program: Short attention spans. June is a time for daycamp, for a Pack picnic or campfire night, for having the OUTING in SCOUTING.

As a parent, no. The time allocation to Scouting begins when the youth steps out the door enroute a meeting, and ends when he steps back in the door. As a Scouter, no. The time a youth dedicates to Scouting must include transportation from here to there. If I as a leader ask a Scout to do something, the time he applies into Scouting includes transportation.

Outside the sphere of Scouting? Horse manure, and it stinks Lisabob, in her follow-on post, wrote in part: And actually they were on their way home from the troop PLC at the SM's house It may not have been in the context of a Tour, but it certainly was within the sphere, imo. That the SPL was part of it makes matters worse. He should be the one all youth look up to and model themselves after. My thoughts.

Just a note: I wasn't allowed an orientation helicopter flight in the Army until I was on ROTC scholarship. That was in 1975-76 (my sophomore in college) school year. This is return to an older policy. No more, no less.

Even in the Army, we have "wear-out" periods for current uniformage. As I recall, it took 5 years fully to replace fatigues with 1st generation BDUs. It took the better part of 4 years to replace BDUs with current Army combat uniform. You should reasonably expect a 3 year or so cycle. Kids joining at 11 generally have grown enough to need new uniforms by 14; 14 year olds generally grow again enough to need new uniforms by 17. If you choose to require the new uniform, you need to consult seriously with your Scoutmaster. The economy right now isn't fantastic. Putting a meal on the table costs Mom a fair bit more than it did a year ago. Fueling the gas tanks has doubled since past winter. If you want to make the new uniform common wear quickly, think hard about doing some fundraisers to help all the youth in your Troop.

Here are my comments... If the FABRIC wears like iron, so kids are not destroying their uniforms faster than they can get to a store... If the FIT supports due growth of a young man... If the FINISH is of quality (double seams, strong fabric pockets, and such... Then National has done its job and given our youth a uniform which will meet the test of a campout or hike. If a pebble, though, can rip a shirt apart, then they've not done their job. BTW, to those who say the Armed Forces do a good job of testing uniforms before they field them... y'all probably weren't around in 1981, when we transitioned from the OG-107 fatigue uniforms to Battle Dress. That first generation of BDUS? Zoot suits! You should have heard the NCOs in the 1st Infantry Division Artillery cuss! There were issues of fading too fast, of the 50-50 nylon/cotton blend being way too hot for Stateside summers, and on and on... The thing the military did, though, that BSA hasn't done... was adapt, and quickly. 10 years later, we had two different weights of BDUS, not to mention BDUS for a European environment and a desert environment. SFAIK, this new uniform of BSA is the first significant innovation in a quarter century.

I've not use PackMaster or one of the other unit management software packages in a while. Do they "connect the dots" at the unit level, as they do with things like the World Convservation Award at the member level? If so, then it's easy to see what's happening with units. Three easy summertime activities: June: Daycamp July: Participate in area Independence Day Parade. August: Pre-back-to-school Pool Party (but make sure you rent a facility including the lifeguards!!).

When I was ACM, we used baggies to organize all the stuff, but the Cub got each award individually. We also used two baggies per youth: One was for Rank and Arrow Points, the other for everything else, from belt loops to religious award square knots.

CP, I've said elsewhere here at the Forum and I will say it again: Driving safety is a hot button issue with me. The best political cartoonist none of you will ever know was two HS classes ahead of me. He was killed in June, 1972. He was a passenger in a pickup truck on the Ventura Freeway in the San Fernando Valley. He was riding in the bed, unprotected/unbelted. Truck had an accident. He went flying. Death was instantaneous they told us. This involved members of the PLC. They are the example setters. It must be addressed, and addressed with absolute urgency. Parents must know what happened. Youth must know this is absolutely unacceptable. I don't know about your jurisdiction, in mine had there been something happen, the driver probably would be facing 5 years in prison. Does that help explain my position of: All hands, youth and parents. If I was in this unit, I'd fall on my sword for that. ???

Ally, It's time to ask: How are you doing? You're getting mighty close to go-date...

Venividi, Timing, timing, timing and context, context, context. Coming on the heels of an incident involving Scouts in a unit, I sure as heck take it as "platoon punishment." Been there, done that, got the T-shirts. COHs are times of celebration. The incident Lisa observed in the base thread merits gravitas. Now, if we were in the old days of Scouting (remember when Boy's Life actually did articles on road rallying???), then a safety talk at a COH before an event would be a good thing. Of course, Scouts participating in a road rally these days is akin to sod surfing... just not worth doing.

Who manages the unit membership files? Is he good with detail work? Trustworthy?

I gotta agree with B. Kids are at Cub Scout Day Camp as we speak. Kids are going to Scout Camp as we speak. Get the kids outdoors. Give them lots of cool gatorade and lemonade and water. Let them play with a hose. After all, OUTING is the last six letters of SCOUTING!!

Here's the important points: 1) Keep the kids drinking water. They should copiously urinate no less than every two hours. 2) Provide a means for the boys to cool off a bit. Quick... does anyone else here remember playing fireman and working the hose and nozzle?

Bob, The camp was not a money thing, it was an information thing. We had lots of Tenderfeet from bridging and new joiners, it was orientation by a very experienced man (not me). FOS was the only money on the table that night.

I had the opposite experience from Michelle. We scheduled a parents meeting with camp and FOS as the topics... 5 parents of 40 youth showed. I think it depends on unit personalities, unit by unit...

CP, I like your part about individual SM conferences with youth concerned. That said, and given this is a hot button issue, I think this topic needs much more time and energy than a SM minute. If this were my unit, I'd fall on my sword for an all hands no exceptions youth and parents meeting ... as described by BW. Had a fatality occurred... in Missouri I've seen the newspapers report Voluntary Manslaughter charges for less negligence than this!

Michael, Troops do not elect adult leaders for the Order. They select nominees for approval by the Scout Executive in his role as Supreme Chief of the Fire. I have seen adult nominees rejected at Council. The ratio does not depend on whether there are Arrowmen Scouters. It's a raw comparison of youth to adults. I have seen exceptions made to the ratio. Most common reason is a new unit where the Staff Adviser, Lodge Adviser, and Chapter Adviser want to jumpstart enthusiasm by getting some adults on board ... so that kids will come to events.

Sven, your DE not telling you is a pretty weak excuse. What's your Council website? What's you District? I'd like to visit your Council Calendar online. I know my Council's calendar gives date, place, and time for every meeting under the sun. There are but a few, generally well out in the future, which have TBAs for place and time. There are two other people in the Key 3 you might contact and ask: The District Chairman and the District Commissioner.

I agree, like so many others, this topic must be dealt with, and must get inside the youth's heads. In a different life, I've spent 3 years on my HS PTA safe driving committee. In turn, that goes back to the best political cartoonist none of you will ever know... because he was flipped from the bed of a pickup truck on the Ventura Freeway in June 1972... two nights before his HS graduation. BW has the right scenario, but the wrong setting. This is a single-topic, all-hands, no-exceptions meeting of youth and parents. 30MPH is sufficient to kill if the passenger lands the wrong way.