John-in-KC

Lisa, We are talking about the Ninth Circuit area and the Peeple's Republik of Kalifornia. There's a reason THIS Native Son of the Golden State emigrated... OUT.

Eagle92, Remember there are two separate packages associated with Eagle. There is the medal presentation kit furnished by Supply, and there is the Eagle Packet with certificate, credit card, and letter of congratulations from Irving. I think most of us are talking about the latter. Not to put words in his mouth, but I saw the Judge's question being a clarifyer... are we talking about paper, or the medal?

Call or have your Scoutmaster or CC call your District Advancement Chairman. He's the guy who is going to make the judgment. If he can get the right folk, if they respond to his leadership, if he can conform to the requirements of ACP&P #33088, Requirements #33215, and the ELSP Workbook, let him go for it BTW, his labor pool need not involve Scouts necessarily. There's nothing in the paperwork requiring him to employ youth in the project!(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Trev, Call the folks at Philmont and ask! 505-376-2271. The professionals running the HA Division are some of the very best in all Scouting. I don't think this would happen randomly.

The last dozen Eagles I processed as a Unit Advancement coordinator, the info turned around from National Office in under two weeks. I think a friendly call from the SM/CC to the DE is in order. Ask him/her to coordinate through the Registrar's office and make sure the paperwork has left the Council. If your Registrar is anything like mine, he/she will call the right person in Irving and see what's going on there. Mail does get lost (in either direction). Paperwork does languish in an in-box. Start with the SM/CC calling your DE Have a great Friday.

Yes, they changed. Everyone earns Bobcat first. Let's remember one of the methods of Cub Scouting is Family Involvement. Mom is AKELA. Dad is AKELA. Uncle Billybob is AKELA. Aunt Myrtle is AKELA. It's not just the DL's job to sign stuff off, it belongs to any adult who the Scout has a relationship with!!

B, and all... Since I've been here, I've heard of ... A Council Advancement Committee which has Scouts give the blank reference and a stamped addressed envelope to the person writing the reference. It gets mailed to the SM or CC, who consolidate for the EBOR (that would be my own Council). A Council Advancement Committee which has the Registrar send out letters of reference blanks, consolidates, and publishes for the EBOR. A Council Advancement Committee which doesn't do any front end checking. A Council Advancement Committee which has the District Guest make personal contact with each reference. How local entities implement BSA publications has some variance, unit to unit, Council to Council, Nationwide. It's called interpretation. Those who do not understand this are doomed to being called a one word term: Bureaucrats My thoughts. I'll write no more in this thread.

He can have a SM conference at any time, for any reason, including to have the discussions needed to qualify for advancement. He can have a BOR at any time he requests (or any time the Committee requests), for any reason, to include the BOR which approves him for advancement. To be THAT BOR, as Beavah said, it has to follow on the SMC after all requirements are met. I think it's called the Adult Association Method? ***ASM411***, in his specific case, I'd recommend he ask him SM for his SM conference to Life after everything but actual time is done. That includes critique of his current POR. That's just me though.

Today's Blinding Flash of the Obvious moment for youth member Arrowmen: Don't blindside the Supreme Chief of the Fire. He's professionally accountable for your actions.

This is one of those questions you ask of your friendly local District Advancement Chair. Your Council and/or District may have a local interpretation of ACP&P #33088 and Requirements #33215 which we don't have. That local interpretation, if any, needs to govern.

Let's not play stump the chump, please. If there is a Youth Protection issue, take the whole matter to your Scout Executive. If there is a "wholesome conduct" (for want of better words) issue, resign your position as ASM, become a committee person, and take the matter up with the CC and COR. A form doesn't cut it, and won't cut it. If there is a need for clear expectations from adults, lay the problem at the feet of the CC; then let him and the COR make a policy decision.

There's a lot of good commentary in this thread Lisa's right: Some people are on the ropes, and more will son be. GW's right too: College used to be affordable from the perspective of post-college earnings and repayment. It's not so anymore, in many cases. I'm lucky I have some savings, and for once I'm not unhappy about my divorce years ago. I have a budgetary line item called child support: Now, it goes to help with his collegiate living expenses. Yes, he has a summer job, and may soon have exception work-study as well (my FAFSA is waaaay above cutoff for anything but loans). I expect him to help earn his way, but to my parents, and to my way of thinking, education is an obligation of the parenting generation, as part of their preparation of the downline. I'd expect my vacations will be structured around learning opportunities, such as PTC: That way I can deduct them off the bottom line. And yes, I'm eating a lot of chicken leg quarters at $0.89 a pound. They're cheaper than hamburger.

Note to our friendly mods: The originator cross-posted this thread to the Venturing Forum as well.

I saw the new commissioner training knot; it's simply a supplemental to the current Distinguished Commissioner knot. It's for taking extended advanced supplemental Commissioner training. In deference to LisaBob and her real world academic credentials, I won't call the final level of commish training a doctorate. I know what I had to do for my Masters, and BSA in no way demands as much academic rigor. I think I have a clue of the rigor Lisa took in her degrees... and she's right. BSA Commish doctorate isn't.

BTW, All a trip to your Council will do is get your DE to send a Commissioner to pay a friendly visit. If this issue has your knickers really, truly all tied up, then ask your CC to formally visit with the SM, IH, and COR in a somewhat structured setting. If necessary, consider asking your CC to invite your UC in as well. Then... when the Chartered Partner makes a decision (they are the owners of record of the license for your unit), live with it.

Just called my District Director. His read is that Internet Recharter does not double back and cross-check COR's across a Chartered Partner's spectrum of units. It takes an eyeball inspection in the Registrar's office to catch this kind of error. This is based on his having and his DC having to resolve multiple CORs to a Chartered Partner in the past couple years. So... is it right to do? Normally Usually Generally Most of the Time (read 99.alotof9s %) No. Can it be done? Yes. Has it been done? Yes. Is it worth losing sleep over? Probably not.

Ahhhhh. You're an ASM. You work for the Scoutmaster. Loyalty. It's time for you to have a quiet cup of coffee with him, and talk about why he does what he does. If there's a logical and workable explanation, fantastic. Case closed. If the explanation is even such you can wrap your head around it, case closed. BUT! If, after that, you cannot wrap your head around it (or you think he's off in left field), the honorable thing to do is ask the CC to put you on the Committee and surrender your position as an ASM. Don't second-guess him from behind. Go visit and sort it out.

" I find it difficult to get them to come to pack events, campouts, etc. They are more than willing to turn out for den outings and campouts, but are looking to ditch their kid brothers as much as possible." Also from the cheap seats: "If you give them great program, they will come." H Roe Bartle, late Scout Executive of the Kansas City Area Council, Mayor of Kansas City, and founder of Humanics Sounds to me like all the advancement got done before these boys were qualified to move up. Did you reserve some program for them until it was time to go? Boys can be astute: If you're selling eyewash as program, they'll know. To me, timing the AOL to 1-2 months before you push them out the nest is just about right...

My Scout Shop won't even question AOL, youth religious emblem, Scouter Training Award, and such. They get a little more careful when folks ask for Award of Merit, Silver Beaver, Eagle Scout, Distinguished Commissioner, Venturing Silver...

Your Scoutmaster is in charge of program. The Chartered Partner made him or her your program officer. Not the CC, not the Committee, the Chartered Partner. Now, if you use other than BSA leader selection best practices, this last may not be as true as it is in the abstract. He/she may have good and valid reasons to bring folks in, not the least of which is to show off the youth to other folk. Sometimes, pointing to these great young charges of ours and saying "these are good people" can be an ego boost for the kids. IF the Committee has concerns about who visits your unit weekend camps, that's a matter for a quiet friendly cup of coffee between the CC and the SM. If there are deeper concerns, then the CC needs to have a more structured visit with the SM, perhaps in the COR's office. Get the concerns on the table, all sides listening, and then get them solved.

Listen actively. Listen far more than you speak... 3/4 listening to 1/4 speaking. No surprises. Call the CC or the SM/CM/Adv before you show up. Be in their communication loop, as a listener. It's a source of information. No surprises. If you see something worthy of note, make sure you talk about it quietly with the CC or CM/SM/Adv first.

Sometimes sleeping dogs are best left alone...

Want successful Chapters and Lodges? Have good program Attendance and support of events depends on the quality of events in the past. Garbage out=Garbage back in. Quality out=quality back in. My $0.001 (the bailout got me)

diogenes, Thanks. You may want to talk to your SE and friendly commissioners about Lone Scout program for that singleton young man...

Eagle92, Looks to me like someone found this thread in the archives and resurrected it. Ratio for newly selected (note, not elected) adults is 1:50 youth members in a unit or fraction thereof. Requirement for adults is camping standard and can make a positive contribution to the Order and to the unit by being an adult member. SE has final decision, most often delegated to staff Adviser to the Lodge.