John-in-KC

Note to self: Lay in a supply of the existing US flag patches for BSA uniform. Wear them overtop new rubberized vinyl US flags screenprinted on new BSA uniforms. BSA flag on Sr DE's uniform already looking tattered after 3 months use.

This is pole vaulting over the mouse turd, folks. I'm actually amazed at the Council Registrar's proposed solution. That's a PUNT if I ever saw it. Common sense is not prevailing here. Call the District Advancement Chair. Have a friendly cup of coffee. Explain the challenge. Most likely he'll have the DE and the Registrar on the phone to Council Solutions Group at National the next day. WHY? Eagle Scout Service will have a hiccup on this one. Their job is to audit the records. This is administrative in nature, especially when the Scout has more than enough time at Life to cover the difference. Get the Administration done, and get the young man on his way to his EBOR. I wish him well.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Let me show you a gold mine: http://www.scouting.org/Media/Relationships.aspx Now, the Relationships folks cover all manner of Scouting-Chartered Partner relationships, but our major chartered partners are faith based. Here are some specific resources: Roles of the Chaplain and Chaplains Aide: http://www.scouting.org/media/relationships/chaplainrole.aspx 2008-2011 important faith-based dates: http://www.scouting.org/media/relationships/religiouscalendar.aspx The Manual for Chaplains Aides http://www.scouting.org/media/relationships/manualforchaplainsandaides.aspx Scout Sabbath/Scout Sunday helps: http://www.scouting.org/media/relationships/ascoutisrevernt.aspx Reverence This pamhlet was adapted from the "Eagles Soaring High" faith resource used at Philmont Scout Ranch. This is a PURCHASE item. http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=BOOKS_LIT&C3=RAWARDS&C4=&LV=3&item=34248&prodid=34248^8^01RTL& Strength for Service: This book was a Methodist devotional first published during WWII. It has been republished by Supply Corporation. It is a PURCHASE item: http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=BOOKS_LIT&C3=RAWARDS&C4=&LV=3&item=32545&prodid=32545^8^01RTL& PRAY (Programs for Religious Activities for Youth) offers a host of resources as well... in addition to the stuff they author and sell, they provide support services to many faith communities for youth award and emblem programs: http://www.praypub.org It's important for you and the Scout to understand that his role is to serve faith needs of all youth members in your Troop. Scouting has faith as a major element, but is not faith specific. If he cannot think outside the Roman Catholic box, he may not be ready for this position. That applies to any young man contemplating Chaplains Aide...

packsaddle: http://www.shakespeares.com/ The pizza which keeps Mizzou happy. It really is good stuff, it's the only place EagleSon wants me to take him when I run over for a concert of his... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Beavah: Now, we have to get the Conservative movement to line up its core beliefs, and then to act on them. I agree, right now the US is starting to look like Kruschev got it right those years ago.

Welcome to the Forums. There is no reason a SM cannot be a MB counselor, especially if he/she has a unique skillset. That said, if it's one of the Eagle-required or common MBs, I'd advocate finding more volunteers in your unit/District and giving them a chance to counsel. For Frank17: The number of MBs which a Counselor may do is a limitation set by local Councils, not by Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088!!! Remember, MBs support both the Advancment and Adult Association methods of Boy Scouting.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Thank you Pete Schoomaker. Grrr. The problem is you have to go back over a hundred years to historically look at the Army Blue uniforms. Troopers wore branch colors for their trouser stripes and rank stripes. Piping on several of the uniforms was also in branch color. What the Army is going to get is a "Generic Soldier" uniform. Pinks and Greens would have been better.

Bottom line is all youth serving programs of Scouting, previously having their own division, now fall under the "Council Solutions Group" of the National Council. The professional side of the staff will report to ONE Assistant Chief Scout Executive, who in turn reports to Mr Mazzuca.

I don't recommend brands anymore. They come and go, constantly. I do recommend visiting an outfitter (REI/Cabela's/Bass Pro/LL Bean (if you're in Freeport ME)) OR visiting a store specializing in work/field boots (RedWing comes to mind). Talk with the salesman about the kind of walking you're going to do. They'll point you to all manner of boots, and help you fit them!

It's a tough call. On one hand, take an at-risk young man and keep working with him, trying to convince him that living the Scout Oath and Law in his daily life matters. You may get to the point where a marginal candidate presents himself for Eagle. OTOH, there comes a point where the Scoutmaster, or perhaps the COR, decides a young man is such a distubance within the Troop that his termination from the Troop is the better of several bad options. You never can make these decisions easily, lightly, nor without knowing the kid on the ground. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jet, what you described is one reason my district does unit level EBOR with a District Guest. When the youth, with his SM, schedules the event, he's deconflicted the other things in his life. I see your comments otherwise, and I'm not sure how I'd have reacted if I had sat this board. I know one thing: If he was not there, I'd have immediately made a motion to defer the EBOR. "Must be present to earn."

Here's my question: Is a Tenderfoot now smarter than a Tenderfoot of 40 years ago???

We're in a recession, folks, and it may well get butt ugly. Yesterday, I was at church, talking with my parish president. Tithing has been going down for weeks now. We're doing all manner of re-looking budetary issues, even to zeroing out any growth in board budgets (including simple inflation management) and looking at cancelling staff pay raises. We've already decided to cancel two staff adds, even for P/T worship assistance. Every non-profit will soon be feeling the pinch of this recession. Whether you're a Key 3 type, a Council board/committee member, or a volunteer in the trenches, it's gonna be tough. If you've got good ideas, put them forward. Disclaimer: I'm a volunteer!

Scouting, executed properly, is perhaps the best whole person youth program available. Lisa, as you've seen, it's not always executed to its best. As kids like yours move up to high school, they start narrowing their interests a bit. EagleSon spent much of his time in band and Teenage Republicans at the high school, barbershop harmony with his step-dad, and church HS youth group, as a place where he could just chill. I disagree on the significance of Eagle. HR folks may say it's one of many, but I'm helping EagleSons pledge father in the fraternity find internships for summer 09 and 09-10 school year. One friend, a retired 2-star general and VP of a major engineering firm, said "Eagle Scout? I want his paper." Another, the recruiter for my firm, said "Eagle Scout? When can I see his paper?" Part of it is I'm willing to network him along, but the simple fact is cold calling doesn't get as many interviews as networking does. The networkers are looking for buzzwords, and Eagle is a buzzword. With that digression done, I agree with Lisa, as she said in the other thread, that advancement is but 1 of the 8 methods, and if a kid extracts full benefit without Eagle, fantastic. I actually understand the parents who push their kids to specializing early. I'm lucky, EagleSon attends a Big 12 university, and I'm only forking out about $14K this year. (His share is $1.5K in scholarships and .75K in tuition offsets). I have a decent 529 plan, even in the recession, and I also have ~600 a month I pay (him now directly) in child support, as mandated by the State. That covers his frat fees and then some. Getting a kid out of undergrad without loans is tough. Parents are forcing specialization and early expertise, because the front end costs of life are so much greater than they were when we 40 and 50 somethings were as kids. Sorry if this hijacks your thread, L, folks spin off as needed.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Go to the Scout Shop. Buy a copy of BSA Requirements #33215 and Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088. Highlight the section about Councils and Districts not authorized to change the program. Take these tomes to RT. Get with your DAC over a friendly cup of coffee. Show the books to the DAC and challenge him to show you where he got his ideas.

I think part of it is people in general are far more squeamish about fresh food preservation than we ever used to be. OTOH, salt fish, salt pork, salt beef, and salt-cured ham were all staples in the larder a century ago. I remember reading the outdoors books of Townsen Whelen and Brad Angier, written back in the 50s. Even at that date, it was still possible to routinely go out into backcountry and plan your trip to shoot and eat fresh game for a meal a day. I'll have to think more about where we are now, and how field cookery can be done well ... especially in high summer. Right now, though, heck, in my neck of the woods, you could take steaks in your backpack if you're willing to carry the weight! Daytime highs are about where my refrigerator runs

ACP&P #33088 (2007 printing) Page 33: "THe Eagle Award must not be sold or given to any unit until after the certificate is received by the Council Service Center. The Eagle Scout court of honor should not be scheduled until after the local council receives the Eagle Scout credentials." When the Scout gets his Eagle packet, next meeting, give him the patch. That's my two cents. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ randr3, in your specific case, since it sounds like this hurdle is met, go for it! (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Lisa, Agreed on talk with your son. I know what our friend Beavah says, but there's nothing wrong earning Eagle in a Crew. EagleSon was a little further than yours when he moved up (Life), but he wanted something other than an adult run troop method Troop. BTW, if you can, guide him in some critical thinking on the paths open to him in Scouting. Find out what's interesting him in life now. It'll help him figure out what direction he wants to take next. Assuming he decides to move along, I think you should honestly lay out the major issues to the IH of the Chartered Partner... even if they are clueless. They need to understand they may lose the Troop sooner than later. When someone of integrity pulls the pin, others follow. You also need to visit 1/1 with the SM and the CC. Lay out the issues to them as well. It's good and courteous to say "this is what I see". Finally, a quiet talk with the DC or UC is in order. Sounds to me like a unit needing more than a monthly cup of coffee commissioner visit. When you do leave, as we've both talked with many others, then leave graciously, and don't back-bite. They'll have enough problems on their own.

What I have proposed on another forum: CIVIL UNIONS become the province of Government. That's what you license to do when you get your license to be united. Solemnization comes from 2 sources - Through the Courts of Record in your State - Through a religious ceremony, subject to the theological discretion of the man of faith solemnizing the event. The term Marriage becomes what God created it to be: The province of faith. The term civil union provides all with the rights of a couple united.

Years and years ago, my Troop had a hurdle of being First Class to go on the Council's backpacking trail. Our Troop actually broke into 3 parts for the summer camping season: One part were campers at the Scout Camp, one part were 1st time backpackers going on the Silver Knapsack Trail, and one part were more experienced backpackers going on the Powderhorn Trail. I backpacked the low Sierra Nevada when I was 12 and 13 years old, and the High Sierra when I was 14. Crew sizes and aging are, imo, management tools by the High Adventure bases (national and local). They serve to keep the trails from being end to end conga lines. Period. If the kid can make the training hikes, let him go on the trail!

Here's the difference to me: Cub Scouting Bobcat is an absolute entry to Scouting. The kid has most likely never had to learn something like the Promise and the Law of the Pack. They're not just words, they have meanings. I remember when I got my Bobcat pin, all those years ago, it was a big day! Let's be honest, most kids who join Boy Scouting move up from Cubbing. They've already been through the gauntlet of important words at least once. Further, those who did Web II and AOL had to learn the Scout Oath and Law in due course to get there. It's not necessarily new material, it's not necessarily the first time they've committed to something rock-solid. My thoughts only.

Gentlemen, I may be a McCain supporter too, but whatever happened to a Scout is Trustworthy? Shame. I voted absentee some days ago.

Obama associates with folks who are so far to the left of center that I cannot believe his political system is not far left of center. One name: William Ayres.

ScoutMomSD, Narraticong wrote: "That differs from my personal religious viewpoint that being a 'good person' gets you 'zip', 'zero', 'nada', 'nothing', in terms of getting into Heaven." His Scriptural source for that statement is John 14:6: "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." You get to choose your belief and faith system. It's an eternal choice you make. Choose well. Christians are commanded to love all, but we're also commanded to proclaim both Law and Gospel. If you choose not Gospel, then you by default choose Law. God has shown very plainly, in OT and NT, that He has a single standard for those who choose Law: Absolute and utter perfection. I certainly cannot meet God's standard absent Christ. Be well.

E, Though I'm not concerned with Sea Scouting, I am concerned with Relationships and Religious Relationships. Thank you for posting this, it was helpful to more than just the SS community.

It was. We were making jokes about Bob White.

Whatever happened to doing this round in WB order? Speaking of WB order, Is there a Bear in the House? John who will wait his turn as an Owl to the Next Round