John-in-KC

EagleSon's last Troop (06-07 registration year), the operating expenses were about $70 per youth per year: - $10 to BSA registration fee - $12 Boys Life That left $58 to cover merit badges, cards, rank, new scout neckerchiefs, ad infinitum. We ran pretty lean, but never had to have a special levy. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Here's the contrast, 12th grade (last year) HS band: $75 instrument rental fee $25 uniform rental fee $10 all District Honor Bands competition fee $10 District Music Festival competition fee $50 all District Honor Band concert participation fee $150 University sponsored honor band weekend For those who qualified to go to All-State level: $10 all State Honor Bands competition fee $150 all State participation fee (lodging and meals) $10 all State bus trip fee That's only about $300-$450. That doesn't include lessons, summer camps, and such... (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Lisa, To me the issues of the Big 3 are four: - I heard on NPR that GM has 4700 dealerships across the US. OTOH, Toyota has something around 1500. Both have about a 20% market share. The costs of doing business with the dealership network is a drain on the Big 3 bottom line, but the dealerships have their own lobby ... and in several states, the Big 3 simply cannot renegotiate those contracts without a Federal Judge doing the Chapter 11 gig. - Someone else has already discussed the direct and the burdened costs of labor on the production line. Let's use the $32 an hour wage figure quoted: For a base 40 hour week, that's $66K a year. How sustainable is the wage base? It seems to me the UAW has to come to the table and say "the good times are done, we have to share the pain." - Let's be honest, the "Flight of the Gulfstream G-5s" didn't help the perception by the American people that the Big 3 are serious about re-structuring. Do these folk understand that some of the rest of us want to see them with just a bit of skin in the game, like their entire personal fortunes ... every bloody cent??? - Finally, and this only applies to Chrsyler, but a privately held company wants Feddybux? Excuse me?!?!?!??? I've told my Congresscritter there has to be oversight, somehow, or not one red cent to Chrysler.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Diogenes, Hope the young man with the videocon BOR is doing well OK, first issue, since you are LDS, is Sabbath. Many, but not all, Scout camps operate SunPM-SatAM as a camp cycle. If that's what you're trying to avoid, there are Scout Camps which are working with LDS units ... sad thing is, I'm not sure they're in close proximity to Oil Patch and Beyond, Texas... Look at the Council Camps around you. Decide what's worth the trip and what isn't. Get input and recommendations, and then give your youth some decisionmaking responsibility ... do one of the Council Camps sound like a winner, or would a better idea be going over to NM and doing it yourself? BTW, I do not see any ethical issues with a camping event out-of-state, even a private one, even with Texas' law. I think it's a response to the Primitives cases earlier in the year, but I think you're square-up people trying to do the right thing. To me, the two biggest issues of establishing an internal camp are: - Pool/lakefront and compliance with SSD/SA. - Ranges and compliance with shooting sports safety (having established military field ranges, compliance is not difficult, but it is precise).

Amethyst, Welcome to the Forums. Picking battles wisely is always good advice. Credibility can go to zero, fast, if you're viewed as a dilettante. I like, really like, the idea about asking your CC/CM to have a uniform inspection, with the COR and the UC being the inspectors. I also like the idea about rewards for correct uniforming (those Halloween Hershey bars sure seem popular on cold winter days). I also like Kathy's idea about Wal-Mart blue chino type pants, or blue jeans, especially for Cubbing. Kids 7-10 will outgrow a couple sizes before they wear out stuff; economy does matter ... and all the more so in the current times.

You're an ASM when your approved app is loaded into ScoutNet and you get your BSA membership card back. Now, is a Scouter trained (FS, YP, NLE, SM Specific, OLS)?? What about MBC training? When will the Scouter take WB? If I were SM the scope and depth of an ASM's portfolio would increase with his training and his field experience. One final comment: SM should empower youth to do most of signing for T-2-1, given that the youth themselves really understand "what right looks like."

EagleSon's ELSP was out of the box, and most assuredly not bricks and mortar. SM called ahead to the DAC, to make sure the concept would pass muster against Requirements #33215 and ACP&P #33088. DAC actually welcomed the project, he had been wanting to educate his people that Eagle projects are not just about construction. As it happened, it was very cold, and had been snowy, the night in 2005 when he went to RT for approval session. The DAC had his other guys sitting around my son, listening to the conversation. Sometimes, you can take 2 birds with one stone For Eagle92: Recommend you re-read ACP&P: There are provisions to reject ELSP project execution as part of an EBOR. Of course, then we start talking the appeal cycle...

Agree with BW. Scoutmaster is a gatekeeper on MBs ... he is supposed to get to know the folk in his District, so that he can determine that a Counselor is both proficient and a "fit" to the Scouts in question. I know a Family Life MBC who is great with special needs kids, but doesn't do so well with children of a divorced family. He doesn't get every Scout who wants FL. A lot of MBs is about the information, but a lot is also about people-people relationships

SSScout, How much time was on the pregame clock when that run-on happened? Looked like there were 10 people in the stadium.

It'd be very nice if the DAC has one of those "heart to heart" conversations with your COR and CC... Gist of message: This "Eagle Adviser" is an obstacle, not an enabler. Congratulations to your son. Please let us know how the process progresses

Here's my take: If a Troop doesn't furnish an ASM for Pack support, and doesn't furnish quality Den Chiefs, then it deserves the recruiting results it gets.

The irony is I'm a very good friend of the District Guest who did EagleSon's board. He's getting older, and no longer drives at night. We took him to the BOR site. That seemed to calm EagleSon down a bit. Of course, I had told him some weeks before: Do you think you're the type of young man who models the ethics of an Eagle? Yeah, Dad. Well... do you think it'll be a problem. Well, Dad... Turned out to be about an hour worth of a lot of laughter and story sharing from all concerned. I was about 200 yards away, working on a Sunday School lesson, and they were certainly audible

Wally brings up a good point: For the inter-session, YOU will be the Troop for your Patrol. You cannot, cannot punt a question from a participant. If you defer anything beyond "I do not know right now, but I will get with the CD and get you an answer in 3 days" ... you'll be bypassed, not made into a resource. That was perhaps the most valuable statement our TG (who was also ASM for TGs) in our course said, even as we left weekend 1. He walked that walk, too

Don't use the "pretty" versions of the slides for your presentations. The sorta white on camouflage came off so hard to read, it's not funny. Use the black lettering/white background instructor version. DON'T READ THE DAMN SLIDE. I graduated HS, college, and grad school. I can read, dammit. Know your material and the underlying principles/theory/practice to ADD VALUE TO THE BULLET POINTS. Can you tell I'm rather emotional about my second point?

ASM915 said his District only does EBOR's quarterly. In my neck of the woods, there's hardly a week that doesn't go by without an EBOR somewhere. Our District uses the "District Advancement Committee Member Guest" authorized by ACP&P #33088. Scout has great sway in setting time and place of EBOR. It's his day to shine in the sun. If the Scout wants an offsite (usually someplace significant to him), he coordinates the place. CC, or unit advancement coordinator (committeeperson) coordinates unit members for the EBOR, and contacts the District NESA chairman for a guest (yes, it's an advancement function, but that's how we divide the labor). Our Council is not uniform. The adjacent District only does EBOR at monthly RT. Another only does them at District Committee/Commish. How does your District/Council do it?

Crew21Adv, Our Lodge youth leaders, since 2004 or so, have taken the knowledge test out of play. Their understanding is that during the hike, our Ordeal brothers are asked to reflect and discuss various questions. Some of them are classic "Brotherhood knowledge" (admonition, song, Ordeal oath, handclasp, sign), but most are more about a heart and and ethic of service to others. The "Trivial Pursuit" stuff (why did character X do action Y) has long been discarded from our hike. While I do not own a copy of the Officers Guide nor the Brotherhood Ceremony, our C-team folk say we now conform to the new National standard. Does that make sense?

I thought mandatory Brotherhood knowledge died with the Nemat concept. Your post makes it sound like your Lodge has the old Brotherhood knowledge talk. Am I reading you correctly??

You must be somewhere near Stewart or Benning. Of course, an opord on an MRE box implies a map with a decent tactical sketch somewhere. Which leads me to a picture is worth 10,000 words, especially when we're discussing Commander's Intent! Today's questions: - What is the project? - How did he doing going to the District Advancement folk? My comment: Last thing your DH should do as SM is tell the "Eagle Adviser": Leave. Thank you for your service. Leave. We had a great guy who did L--->E support. He worked with the young men to teach them a process ... from a one sentence "What will this project do?" to an outline, to a ready for District project. Asked them pointed questions, then sent them on their way to find answers. Even with a Scout who had the seed of an idea in his brain and nothing on paper, I never saw the process take more than 8 weeks, and that usually included someone being out of the loop for whatever reason.

IM_Kathy... once upon a time (1968-74 or so) Swimming was THE Eagle Required physical activity merit badge. Others will have to tell you the history of how Hiking and Bicycling got into the matrix.

Here's my take. There are 5 different Oaths a Citizen of the United States can take: - Pledge of Allegiance - Oath of Citizenship to the United States (naturalization) - Oath of enlistment to the Armed Forces - Oath of office, for officers in the Armed Forces, civil service employees, and executives (up to the Vice President). - Oath of Office for the President of the United States. Of these, the Pledge of Allegiance has the least moral and legal strength. The Oaths of Enlistment/Office and the Presidential Oath all bind folks to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. Until I retired, whilst others said the Pledge at a public ceremony, I'd silently repeat the Oath of Office. I made it a personal touchstone to one of the reasons I chose to serve. Hope that makes sense.

In my District, Eagle Leadership Service Projects are an adjunct activity to District Roundtable. Normal session is first Thursday, monthly. If there's a need, the DAC will meet with a Scout (and his SM) just about anyplace ... usually, we're talking some critical reason though. The room is designed for up to 8 concurrent conversations: 1 boy, 1 Advancement Committee member. Many of the AC guys are Scoutmasters in their own right, helping others. Many, not all, have their Eagle themselves. I've seen months where every Scout gets Advancement Committee clearance, I've seen months where 1/3 of the young men are deferred. Deferred means the Scout has one or more specific issues to work. When a Scout is deferred, he's given home and work numbers for the Advancement guy who he met with. A deferred Scout does the work he needs to do. They get together, during the month, under 2-deep (SM or parent needs to be close to hand), the open matters are settled, and the Scout is given clearance. How do other District Advancement Committees do the task?

I do think we need each MB committee to look hard at how to use both "stubby pencil" and "latest/greatest" methods. Orienteering is a map and compass art ... but geocaching, which works to 1 meter or better resolution in easting/northing, is GPS driven. Scouts should know both. Cooking: Scout should be able to work a gas range (be it camp stove or restaurant), an oven (home and Dutch), and a microwave. The carbon footprint of nuke-boiling a cup of water for tea is a lot less than running the back burner on the stove. Music merit badge: Yes, EagleSon moves a lot of air through his tuba. He also knows how to Finale to write music on his MacBook. The "internals" of the various badges need to stay current with the technology curve. If that means National dumps the printed MB pams for pdfs online, and has its various committees meet more often, so be it.

A lot of what Beavah said. It sounds to me like your son has more than enough front-end research to understand - Who his target agency is - Who his support staff is - What he wants to do for them - Where is the project - Why it's important - When (roughly) will the project be done - How will the project be done. If he can hit those points, he should be good to go. Since I think your husband is the SM, this is one of those times to defer away from him. Let your CC and COR carry the water on this one. Have them sit down for the "friendly cup of coffee" with the District Advancement Chair. I'm not quite sure about your words "District Eagle Adviser" ... if he's the District Advancement Chair... and he's as adamant as you claim ... then your CC/COR may need to say thank you ... and go visit the Council Advancement Chair. Yes, EagleSons' project had a lot of info in it, but part of that was because the supported agencies had given them their "volunteer safety" training packages to include into the pitch. The basics didn't take much more than 5 pages: Everything else was backup stuff.

I'm going to go the opposite direction. The most under-represented skill in Scouting is Cooking. It's pro-forma in T-2-1. Cooking MB is not now, and has not been, Eagle Required for many years. It's an essential guy skill in this modern age. I can manage sodium and fat intake far easier when I do ingredient cooking over when I open a package, nuke, and eat.

Congratulations on wanting to charter a Crew. To me, the most important element of finding a Crew is finding an interest set that HS age kids are commonly interested in. The best Crews I've seen, co-ed or otherwise, have some form of focus. I've seen successful Crews formed around HS bands, church youth groups, and camp staffs (who want to do things together in the off-season). Ask your DE and Commissioner Service: Are there older Boy Scouts who are finding the Boy Scout program no longer serving them? If so, what are their interests. Ditto Girl Scout troops. Ditto any hobby or interest your own daughter has. If you've not looked at it, here's the Venturing top page at the National website: http://www.scouting.org/Venturing.aspx

Here are two run-ons for you: The sound quality of the act is better on this one: The view of the act is better on this one: Taken same day. Point is this: Words have meanings, and different meanings to different people!