fred8033

For our troop... IMHO ..., program produces participation. Requiring and debating participation is a distraction and a bad frame of mind. "active" - We're not going to add unit expectations. That's putting a gate in to block scouts advancing. Our unit's leaders role is to help scouts succeed. We'd rather focus our energy on supporting the scouts completing the requirements as published by the BSA. "POR" - POR participation is about keeping the troop running. We will work with the PLC to clean up POR expectations and get mechanisms in place to hold scouts accountable. Probab

Ya know, one of my all time favorite courses in college was a Philosophy dept Logic course. And perhaps, I'm guity of a causal falacy. Perhaps, it's just a hot topic spurs debate. Just interesting.

Scoutfish - My apologies if my assertion makes you uncomfortable. I'm just pointing out a trend I've noticed. - start ----- end - 2011-10-17 - current - Tough questions (spun from the 2011-10-13 one) - 2011-10-13 - 2011-10-20 - When will National realize this *IS* affecting membership - 2011-10-12 - 2011-10-13 - Florida School Board Rejects Grant ... - .... - ... - (there are a few in here too, I just can't find them quickly) - 2011-09-27 - 2011-09-30 - Which "lifestyles" are acceptable - 2011-08-30 - 2011-09-28 - Where does

Applications, money and camping registrations are always a pain in the .... Since our pack is very healthy right now, so we have some flexibility. - If we get an application, we submit it. Money or no money. If they took the time to fill it out, we'll get the kid on the roster and he starts getting Boy's Life mag. Essentially, we want the kids in scouts. - If they paid their dues, we re-charter them, active or not. - If they did not pay their dues, I call the den leader. Are they actiev? Family or job issues? If they are active, I re-charter them. If they are not act

Wow! What a great commentary. I yearn for a very different Boy Scout Handbook. I'd love to see pages on great american heros who have helped build and shape our country. I'd love to see more on patriotism and virtues. And more in-your-face challenges to the scout. More how-to. I'd love to see the book become dog-eared from reading by the scouts. Instead, it's more just a file cabinet for advancement these days. I strongly recommend reading the referenced article! I also like what it says about writing styles. The current one is pretty dry. I'd love to see it be a more exc

Fair enough. I feel like a schmuch because when I started replying on this board awhile ago, I naively got pulled into one of the thread discussions. Like many, I have strong opinions on the topic. I didn't realize it was just a rehash of the same ongoing discussion for the last several years.(This message has been edited by fred8033)

It seems that some topics / posters re-post the same subject but under a slightly different twist to advance a political agenda. I'm all for letting COs choose their leaders. I'm just not for advancing a political position by hijacking the forum by starting a new thread every time the previous thread dies. IMHO, it's the same as the protest rallies outside church during Christmas midnight mass or political acts inside church during a mass celebrating the renewal of marriage vows. (seen both for a few years now) Does anyone correlate thread authoring / branching and user accounts

Our troop has no trouble with double dipping. Why not? The scout did something nice for someone else. The response should be entirely "wow, that's great. what a nice thing to do.". It's about character development and not balance sheet accounting. But then again, we rarely have trouble finding service hours to list. It's key to emphasize we do service because it's a moral good and it's a reflection of our care for others. We are not doing service to legalistically check off a requirement (a bad lesson to teach). In my mind, "required volunteer service" is an oxymoron ... i

Wow. I knew units could use any night of the week, but I thought there was a fairly common standard. Monday - Troop meetings (fairly common) Tuesday - Pack meetings (not as strong of a standard) In our district, the vast majority of units meet on those nights. We encourage our dens to use the same week night as the pack meetings to free up other week nights of the week for other activities.

Redraw? Probably not. Reassign your unit(s) to another district? Very possible ... depending on who you talk to and how you handle it. Our district had a pack and troop that did that. Physically, they were located in a neighboring district. Officially, they were members of our district. I think they just said roundtable was much closer and all the scouts that joined their units and/or interacted with their scouts were located in our district. I'd politely and very softly pursue it. Then, just start attending the preferred district roundtables, activities and events. E

Jumping to statements of felony, accusations and reprehensible is not what this discussion is about. Abuse is a description of an action. Not of scope or legal interpretation. ... A good example is a 30 year friend of mine. He's fun to be around and will bend over backwards to help a friend. I remember taking a job 1600 miles away with two days notice. He dropped everything so that he could help me drive the moving can cross country. He was a real life saver. But as I tell my wife, I feel sorry for women he dates and employees under his leadership. He plays mind games with

OGE wrote: "What is more important here, the correct use of the word Hazing or an attitude of how scouts and scouters are to be treated?" Terms be darned. The important thing in life is how we treat each other. Our actions affect other people and are a lesson how to treat the next guy. Humiliation (song punishment, etc.) and tricks (snipe hunts, etc.) are just yet another form of teasing and making someone the brunt of a joke. It breaks trust and damages the victim. And, yes. It's abuse. Proper terms are important to clearly define the discussion. Too often people minc

Scoutfish: I think we are all saying it's not hazing and it's not illegal either. Your examples though are not directly parallel. There are reasons to defend each situation you list because of some direct redeeming value in each. ... But, let's be clear. While there are individual circumstances and different situations types to evaluate what is abuse, there is a truth. Why is the scout asked to sing a song? Because he left his dishes. How does the song relate to the dishes? It doesn't. The dishes are not cleaned or moved (physically or emotionally) by the

I always keep score in games. It's part of making the game interesting. ... Beavah: Your asserting red herring arguments raising slander and examples of swimming limits. It just muddies the debate water. "Personally, I hope in scoutin' we're helping to raise kids who aren't so fragile that, right or wrong, singing a song affects their self-respect in any way at all." That's the same argument used to defend spanking kids. So your okay with using some quantity of humiliation to toughen kids. I'm not. I expect better of the scouts and the adults. I hope we raise k

Not all abuse is criminal. Some abuse is just mean. I think snipe hunts, singing a song to get stuff back and such is mean. And, it's a dead on match for the definition of emotional abuse. I'm sorry if you are uncomfortable with that. Not every scouting tradition is positive. You might not think it's significant, but I do. I've seen the tears. I've seen kids wanting revenge by doing it to others. It's just plain old mean and teaches others to be mean. I've talked with my sons and told them that their self-worth is worth much more than any set of dishes. If asked, readily a

Hazing? Not by the strict dictionary definition. Most definitions relate it to a joining activity. Abusive? ABSOLUTELY 100% TEXTBOOK. It seeks to change behavior by using embarrassment and humilitation. Websters dictionary definition: Emotional abuse (also called psychological abuse or mental abuse) can include humiliating the victim privately or publicly, controlling what the victim can and cannot do, withholding information from the victim, deliberately doing something to make the victim feel diminished or embarrassed, isolating the victim from friends and family, implicitl

OldGreyEagle, Basementdweller, Eagle92: You are all very polite and respectful. Thank you. ... There may be a bit of a axe to grind. My son and several of our other scouts have not had positive experiences dealing with other scouting leaders. I think one failing I've had is learning scouting at the same time as my son. He's taken some of the training with me and he knows scouting very well. 150+ nights of camping. Camp staff. Most troop positions. As I've dealt with incidents, we've learned together the real rules. The last incident before his jamboree was when anot

Gary_Miller wrote: "Why don't you just use the definition in the Scout Handbook. After all thats what the book is for. .... A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. " The trouble is what are the rules? Many places say the rules are the scout oath and law. I'm okay with that. It's worked well in our troop. But what happens when adult leaders start pulling rules and punishments out of thin air? What happens when the scouts don't have any realistic timely way to get the rules "changed in an orderly way"? Are they dammed to suffer the situation? Adults pretty much

Nothing specific happened. It's just always dancing in the back of my mind as I reflect about my troop and my personal interactions with scouts. Especially as I see others who do it very differently. The topic is always in my head as I read other topics. I think each of us has had moments where we think "glad our son is not in their troop". Of course, I'm sure others have thought that our troop too.(This message has been edited by fred8033)

Many scouting terms are interpreted very differently by different people. "Boy led." "Active." "Earned." "twenty nights of camping." Those terms have all been discussed and debated to death. There is one term that few people discuss and debate and I think it causes huge problems. "A scout is obedient." Many leaders think of "obedient" as a scout is submissive and will do what you say without question. Yeah, and pigs fly. In my opinion, we, as leaders, need to be careful to not spout extra rules to make our lives easier. Scouting is for the youth. We are looking to build c

nldscout wrote: "When I went a an ASM in 2001 we had no problems like your descibed. When we toured DC, we turned them lose with instructions to stay in groups of no less than 3, and to have FUN. All the leaders from the 5 troops in our council spread out all over the mall area and just were there to observe. We met up at a certain time without any problems." That's how my son's school group did it and he had a great time. My son's Jamboree troop was not like that at all. Little freedom. But they also had some relatively young kids in the troop as the council seems to have lower

SeattlePioneer wrote: "Also, I strongly recommend that monthly checking account statements be sent to someone OTHER than the treasurer. To the committee chair if you have one who is wide awake or the Cubmaster. " What a great suggestion! I'll make that part of our SOPs.

Our council 2010 jamboree price was $2,200. For the price, Jamboree is big gamble. Will your son mix well with the adults, the scouts and the troop structure? Will he have new and rich experiences? Do you personally know the adult leaders of the jamboree troop? (Im pretty sure the leaders are already selected and there is not extra space for parents to go with the jamboree troops. Its not for parents to tag along. You just wont know which council jamboree troop your son will be in until he is assigned.) .. Will the troop adults be so focused on making the perfect Jamboree troop to

Worth it? Really really depends .... I definitely don't think every part of Woodbadge is useful to everyone. CLASS ROOM MATERIAL ... Insightful material. Very useful if you have never seen it. For me it was only a refresher as it was almost exactly the same stuff as business seminars I took a decade earlier for leading high performance teams. Also, huge overlap with business courses in college. COURSE STRUCTURE, SONGS, MARCHING AND SKITS - For me, the most useful. Showed me how an "ideal" troop works. Not explicitly taught, but led to the most insight. I wish someone wo

Seems a scouting prerequisite to be fascinated by fire and axes ... hopefully not at the same time ... both kids and adults. I've seen many new kids fascinated with matches and what burns. Usually, it's the first time someone trusted them with matches, fuel and such. Every year you can watch the new scouts disappear when older scouts tell them that bathroom hand cleaner burns. It usually just one or two camp outs though. The kid may have a fire issue. I don't know. I like your solution. Don't miss the personal boundary issue (taking your personal stuff) and that needs to b