fred8033

Quick correction. The applicable GTA sections are 9.0.1.5 and 8.0.3.0 (sub-point 8)

Mad Max: I was honest with my apologies. It's just one of my hot buttons. I always cringe anticipating the direction the point will go. Your points are on target and it will be interesting to see how things shake out. We all suffer from "magical" thinking at times. If a scout can get an approved proposal, I can see them not wanting to invest in more paperwork. Depending on the scout and the project, it might be okay. A detail oriented, five year SPL wanting to pull buckthorn? Sure, will probably go okay. Any significant construction project? No. The new process really e

Nice article ... except I wish it was a requirement that the chief scout always be photographed outside and in uniform. Hard to promote an outdoor program in a suit on a comfy executive leather chair. Google BP. He's always in his scout uniform if it's scout related. And almost always in uniform still when not scout related. LOL.

Mad Max wrote: "I also feel a huge responsibility to my fellow Eagle Scouts in keeping a high standard." You know that's exactly one of the statements that always makes me cringe and not want to be in scouts. Eagle is just a rank and not a better-than-thou club. It's one of my hot buttons along with comments about how the eagle rank should be special or rare or we are producing too many. Those may or may not be valid points when re-working the GTA or debating rank requirements. But I hope that's never part of the discussion when deciding how to treat our scouts. I know that's prob

Twocubdad - I'm with ya dude. You said it very well. I'm not big either way on the one or more day issue, but it needs to be big enough to show leadership. And that's discussed in multiple places in the new workbook. I'm a huge advocate for the new workbook. Anyway, nicely said. Happy New Year!(This message has been edited by fred8033)

Does anyone actually prefer the Centennial? Some parts but quality problems far outweigh the improvements. Pants that wear out and tear in six months. Stick on letters that fall off. Buttons that fall off. Seams that unravel. Belt buckles that suffer metal fatigue and break during a hike! The major improvement is the elimination of red epaulets and other flashy uses of red. I think the money was spent on marketing hype and not on good basic materials.

the committee (which had previously resigned en masse in protest of the new system) There's been grumbling in our district too. I just keep my mouth shut as I really like the changes and was frustrated at some of the self-important stuff that was happening. I love the emphasis on service and that the planning supports the service. Workbook quote: "These elements must not overshadow the project itself, as long as the effort was well led, and resulted in otherwise worthy results acceptable to the beneficiary." Love that. I also like that the new workbook makes the 2.5 page proposal a "

Whether it causes hard feelings or not, I'd pass it on to the DE or SE. Don't contact the CE. Let the paid guys deal with the CE (charter org exec) and the unit. I'd only mention the new family comments and alude to the previous communication. "Two years ago I let you know of my seeing alcohol at Pack ### events. Our pack just received a new scout from that pack and they gave one reason of transfering being the use of alcohol during pack events." Reference the details as it does affect whether it is an educational situation or a get these guys out of scouting situation. Th

Report to your district exec. Copy your scout executive. Document what the new family said. Document what you saw years ago. Keep an archive copy for yourself including the names of the DE and SE you contacted. Then, never repeat the story again to anyone. Ask anyone in your pack who brings it up to never bring it up again. If it's brought up in other groups, avoid the discussion or leave.

Kudu wrote: "As punishment, I'd make him watch "Patton" and report back on what happens to great leaders who don't understand the politics of self-censorship." Great answer. But with the addition that the adults involved must supply the popcorn and Mountain Dew. And that I get to watch the movie too.

KC9DDI wrote: "You can't just respond to ideas and positions you don't agree with by telling people to shut up and go away. " It's ignorant to assume I don't agree or that I'm telling people to shut up and go away. Read to understand before reacting. When my seven year old tells me he's hungry, I feed him. When he tells me he's still hungry, I find something more for him. When he tells me he's hungry five minutes later, I might find something more for him. If he tells me he's hungry again within another five minutes, it's a very different issue all together. That is what I was comm

KC9DDI ... Your line-by-line snarky response isn't useful. KC9DDI wrote: "I wonder if there's a cause-and-effect relationship buried in there somewhere?" Could be or not. But I know plenty of atheists and gay scouters inside scouting who focus on program and not on the politics. I also know plenty of people who choose not to be in scouting because of the politics. It's the ones who choose not to be involved and then daily throw gernades at those trying to do something good that's hurtful. KC9DDI wrote: "How else can the BSA (or US Scouting in general) improve, unless it's weak

drmbear ... IMHO, your exactly who this forum is looking for as participants, a scouter who's looking for support and to make scouting better. This old "systematic political agenda" thread was re-opened because I realized in another thread one of the posters had 3500+ posts over ten years, all on one topic, BSA discriminization. He's a member on scoutingforall.org and an atheist social networking site. And, he's not even a scouter. He's just hear to tell us what BSA is doing wrong. Discussions get hijacked from interesting subjects to just focus yet again on the same worn out topic.

If the section is not working for him, put "SEE ATTACHMENT ******" and write it in a separate document that you attach. He probably needs to do that anyway for diagrams and the final plan shopping list. The material, supply and tool lists are okay for the proposal section, but too short for the final plan. I'm coaching a scout using it right now. It seems to be working really well. Most fields shrink the font nicely, but some such as the work process area had to be a separate document. It wasn't needed for the approvals. It was needed to avoid any "magical thinking" that it w

I agree that using "myth" on people's personal faith when in direct conversation with them is not about conversation. It's about using a loaded word and making a cheap shot. ... Beavah wrote: "Yah, but then I'm not sure all UUA's consider themselves Christian, eh?". Wow. I never realized that. I had to look it up. From the uua.org web site... "In addition to holding different beliefs on spiritual topics, individual Unitarian Universalists may also identify with and draw inspiration from Atheism and Agnosticism, Buddhism, Christianity, Humanism, Judaism, Paganism,

Thanks for the follow up. It sounds like the scout is finishing on a positive note. That's good. Any other discussion is moot. I hope he was given more options than finding a different troop. But, it's moot now as he turns 18 soon and then will be moving onto the military academy. I don't really care for the quote you listed. It rings of a truism that white-washes the situation. I believe it's more the end of the scout's journey is about what the scout wants it to be about. It's the scouts responsibility to make it happen and the leaders role to support their dreams. But,

I requested my post be deleted. I should not have done that. I reacted wrongly to my discovery. It wasn't really "outing" as there was nothing to out. His information was directly linked thru fireside theater and his name directly used on ScoutingForAll.org and Atheist Nexus. It was more of a personal enlightenment that I shared. I reacted the same way I reacted when I learned a relatively new friend only invited me over to bring me into his Amway network. I was thinking we were all scouters here discussing our scouting experiences. It was wrong of me. I should not have

Merlyn - I should apologize. About an hour ago, I emailed the site admin requesting my posts to be deleted. I should not have called you out by name. It's wrong. My apologies. I hope the admin has a chance to delete my two posts. ... "I don't see how you conclude I'm a "main poster" on atheist nexus, I've posted about 7 things back in 2009. " Your right. I didn't realize that when I googled to the site. I thought it was your site. I didn't realize it was more like a MySpace or Facebook for atheists.(This message has been edited by fred8033) Fred's previous post has

Great question! I'm looking too.

I'm not saying everything modern is not automatically better. Generally I agree people are people. On the committee side, I'll agree depth/skill/support is a bit less as I believe people are a more mobile, busier and less connected with their immediate community. I'm just saying today's leaders have been exposed to more educational opportunities and ideas. People are also a bit less naive on critical topics. An obvious one is youth protection. The issue isn't new. But leaders today understand youth protection, what to look for and how to run a safer program. I believe leaders tod

Does the thread question match the point of interest? For example, I believe today's school teachers are the best that's ever existed, but I also yearn, at times, for the old days when teachers would wack a mouthy student. I fully believe that, at the appropriate time, a bit of quick immediate pain can be more effective, less traumatic and less damaging than the bureaucratic BS and extended bad behavior tolerated in today's society. BUT, I also would not want to go back. "Are today's scout leaders as good as the ones in the past?" I absolutely believe they are. I believe the

I wouldn't mention the phone calls. That would put a person on the defensive and won't help. I'm sure he knows the issues and probably looking for help too.

Myth... Interesting debate. LOL.... The theory that the 25th was borrowed from pagan rituals is also a myth. I'm not a Bible scholar, but from what I've read the first mention of Dec 25th / Jan 6th was around 250 to 300 AD. The 1st written association between the dates was not until a commentator commented on it in 1200 AD. By 1200 AD, Christians had started adopting some pagan practices in their celebrations (Christmas trees???, other). Then there's the whole shift of the calendars (Gregorian, Julian, ...). (i.e. the 12 days of Christmas). Eventually I get lost. But it is a sim

Just do it as a friend who's working toward the same goal he. But have the conversation and soon and find a solution. It sounds like his responsibilities have significantly increased since the previous CC left. It's important to remember that though pack leadership roles appear to have specific responsibilities, it's not official. It's more like here's a bunch of people and what can we do to get the job done.

By the way "Back in 1966...". Ummm... I meant "Back in 1996". I'm old, but not that old.