fred8033

Tampa Turtle wrote: "I see TOO MUCH use of the meritbadge.org worksheets. Boys think they look stuff up, fill them out, and they get the MB." Absolutely. Those worksheets are okay for notes or organization, but when it says discuss I insist on discuss. It's about the interaction of two people. I don't really care if the scout wrote anything down as most requirements are not "write an essay". I always feel bad for the scout who fills the worksheets in detail. Good for him as it's impressive, but it usually isn't required. Instead, he needs to jump thru a different hoop such as discu

Not your place to decide if he's Eagle worthy or not. Let the Eagle advancement be his journey, not yours. Be consistent. Support his advancement to the same amount you'd support any other scout. Look for opportunities to be a positive influence on his character, his life and his skills. That's about all you can do.

"with prejudice" just means they can't sue for the same incidence. They settled so the incident can't be re-opened in court. "without prejudice" means they could go to court again for the same incident.

Beavah wrote: "...meet the expectations in order to be recognized." Old Grey Eagle wrote: "I thought it was defining the expectations is what prompted this thread in the first place, ... " No, this is what originally started the previous thread and this thread. "Is it once and done?" came from when the scout was tested, passed and then later, the scoutmaster judge the scout to not have the skill, usually at the SMC. Beavah says it's an scout honor thing and that to preserve the scout honor we don't let the scout advance until he can fulfill the requirement, independent of w

Beavah wrote: "There are all kinds of ways to use da BSA materials creatively and well." I guess it all comes down to creative interpretation. Hopefully, scoutmasters are up front about when requirements are complete (i.e. when reviewed by the scoutmaster right before the SMC). I've just seen too many troops brag about giving scouts authority to sign off on T21 requirements and later talk about scoutmasters reviewing the skills. Or even scoutmasters and ASMs signing off on skills to only later bounce a scout back for skills reasons. It's an interesting tap dance that people do.

Eagle92 wrote: "As for the bio before a BOR, I do hope you are joking right?" No. It's real. Requiring a resume is their standard. They are a very well respected troop in our area with very experienced leaders. I don't think it's that bad of an idea ... except it's not part of the BSA program. ... Eagle92 wrote: "Now this is where I think the misunderstanding between us comes in at. You state It also means passing the test (singular, no retest). That's explicit in the program. Once a requirement is complete it's complete." I agree that's where the issue is. I'm okay

Why does everyone assume you have no experience, no training or your a hovering cub scout parent if you assert a different position? I guess it's natural. My natural reaction to different scouting opinions is that I'm dealing with a cumodgeon using fuzzy bifocals to remember their youth and creatively interpreting BSA published documents to justify recreating their 1960s experience. But that's my bias. No offense intended. ... Eagle92: You asked about my scouting history? Sort of funny you ask. There's a local troop that requires scouts to show up with an updated printed sco

A lot of this is a fight for control. We say Boy Scouts is boy led. Simiarly we say scouts advance at their own pace and control their own advancement. In that respect, we have explicit rank requirements that are written and published so the scout will know what he needs to do to advance and does not depend on a scoutmaster telling them when their ready per some undocumented whim only in the scoutmaster's head. - If it's pass a swim test, it's pass a swim test. Don't like the results. Talk to the person who gave the test. - If it's take a five mile hike with a map and compass,

For scouts signing off on T21, I mentioned it because I've seen 1st hand and also got from this thread SMs who will delay advancement for skills that were tested and signed off by an authorized person (ASM, senior scout, troop guide). It always raises the question of what did the original sign off mean and how will the scout know if he'll advance other than at the whim of a SM.

Eagle92 - I appreciate the history. I've only seen two revisions of the BSHB and two of the ACPP/GTA. Interesting how words change and interesting how BSA is inconsistent with wording across documents that exist at the same time. Which printed words should be treated as authoritative? ... I agree that it's program program program. That's where our focus should be. That's all eight methods used together to develop our scouts. ... The swim test is an excellent debate example. I'm really surprised by the responses though. The BSA rank swim requirement is very clear

If I remember right, the bandage in the video was okay, but not 100% up to par. Now if the scout had done a bandage that was up to expectations, should he have been signed off? Yes. I'm okay with tough expectations. IMHO, that's a matter of good coaching and a good program. Also, I've rarely a seen a scout protest if when asked to try again or to fix what they've done. ... Scouters keep quoting the GTA where it says a badge recognizes what a scout can do, not what they've done. But then reject the idea that if they can "do" the BSA requirement that that's enough. Instead

You know I finally realized what I'm stating is exactly what GTA is saying. GTA says: It is important thus, to remember that in the end, a badge recognizes what a young man is able to do and how he has grown. It is not so much a reward for what he has done. Every one of the rank requirements is an action and a reflection of capability that has been learned. You can debate if it sticks or not. That's a reflection of the troop program reinforcing the skills. But the point is the scout demonstrated, explained, participated, repeated or another action exactly as BSA wrote. Those

Beavah, I appreciate your creative interpretion of what I'm saying. It educational to have someone tell me what I mean. Yes Eagle Scout is a statement of character, leadership and skill. But it's achieved thru all eight methods of scouting. Not one. Ideals. Patrol method. Outdoors. Advancement. Assocation with adults. Personal growth. Leadership development. Uniform. They stand together to achieve that marketing puffery. From the previous chain, I have several issues with what was being discussed. ISSUE #1 The scout is accountable to the BSA published requirements.

In situations like these, I'm open and up front with my sons. Reality impacts ideals. Tell them what BSA says and then explain to them the situation. If you can't or don't want to change troops, then help them make the decision to just get through it. Rarely can a member change the habits of the troop. Protesting or fighting it too much will just alienate everyone. And then help your son remember the experience and make the decision that when he someday becomes an adult scout leaders he'll do it by the book and not play these games.

People quote GTA sections that basically say "(b) In Boy Scouting, recognition is gained through leadership in the troop, attending and participating in its activities, living the ideals of Scouting, and proficiency in activities related to outdoor life, useful skills, (emphasis mine)and career exploration." p 75 G2A But that is not open authority to do what you want under the rule "unit expectations". BSA spells out specific requirements. "participate in activities" is 1 for T, 5 for 2nd class and 10 for first class. "leadership" is only supervising assistant cooks for first class.

"I get where that this "don't be mean", "he did his best" stuff is a product of da Cub Scout program, and some Cub Scouters and parents have a hard time with the transition to Boy Scouting, ..." There you go again. "product of da cub scout program" is a way to dismiss valid points by blowing hot air. "Yah, yah. Kids are entitled to awards and recognition by others." It's not their entitlement. It's an earned result of completing requirements as published by BSA. If you don't like the requirements, take it out on BSA. Don't take it out on the scout or other scouters. That's

What's funny is that my main financial concern in the troop is not fraud. My main concern is getting people reimbursed and reimbursed quickly. The last thing I want is for the unit leader's spouse developing a grudge against scouting because he (or she) swallows several hundred of dollars of cost every year or floats big dollar amounts for a period of time. Though fraud does happen all the time and MUST be our main concern, the opposite problem is more common in scouts.

"Yah, I think we have to get over da notion that folks who want kids to learn are mean-spirited." Generic logic like that has been used for thousands of years to justify treating kids badly. The right logic to use is "what is the requirement" and "did the scout fulfill the requirement". It's mean spirited to demean a scout's (or scouter's) accomplishment just because it's not up to your personal standards. He's graded against the BSA standards, not yours. And it's not candy to give a scout his due. If you don't like the standards, talk to BSA. Don't knock the scout or his volun

"Some lazy adult just pencil-whipped a requirement." ... "Pejorative." ... Yeah, I was thinking that too. The quoted "mastered" only appears in a magazine blowing air into scout achievements. I always fear when marketing hype is taken too seriously by some mean spirited adult that remembers his white-washed youth with fuzzy bifocals. Sorry, I was just too lazy to find a nicer way to say it. The word mastered never appears in the GTA. It only appears in the ACPP when talking about parents signing off on Bobcat requirements. What does appear in the GTA is the explicit discussion of n

SR540Beaver wrote their council dropped the price to $1500 and touring. That sounds great and approaching a reasonable cost. My son has seen DC and will probably see that area again in the near term future. With the national Jambo cost of $850, I'd hope they could knock the council cost down again a bit. Heck, ship the scouts by bus to the event. Stop and do some "free" tours such as Notre Dame or an air force base or such.

IMHO, the key is visibility, openness and simplicity. If you have that, then writing checks and debit cards are not that big of an issue. If you don't have it, then there's big issues no matter how you do it. Petty cash - I just don't like the idea. What's petty? $10? $25? $50? $200? $500? Also, how many people have petty cash? Den leaders? Cubmaster? Event coordinators? If it's $50 or $100 each, your getting into serious money. Finally, I can guarantee you won't get all your receipts and it will be a pain to balance the books. Most leaders I know don't mind floating small

To be honest, everything you've said sounds like a positive to me. If it wasn't for the $2250 price tag, I'd be supportive of sending my son(s).

Trust? Not that simple to answer. ********************************************** PHYSICALLY PROTECTING YOUTH ********************************************** yes - national yes - council yes - district yes - troop, pack yes - individual scouters ********************************************** MENTALLY AND EMOTIONALLY PROTECTING YOUTH ********************************************** yes - national yes - council yes - district yes - troop, pack mixed - individual scouters. Some scouters who are stars in their troop I'd want thrown out of mine. Enough said

Here's a completely different idea. (and I'm betting this has been suggested before...) Let scouters do the same thing scouts do. Move the recognition to a sash and to be used during COH or special ceremonies. I'd put my knots on it instead of just choosing the one or two of the most memorable ones. I'd put the Eagle pins I've been given on it. I'd put memorable temporary patches on the back. Heck, let adults put all their old positions on it too. Then you can have as many knots and special recognitions as you want. You could even add some. Maybe a small knot for each Univ

Google sites (https://sites.google.com) is a good solution. When you eventually have a budget, I strongly recommend http://www.soarol.com.(This message has been edited by fred8033)