Eagledad

That is exactly right. And by the same token, the adults have conditioned themselves to be reactionary in leading their children. That is just as hard to comprehend and change. The best Scoutmasters are salesmen of their product. Barry

Very good for you and the boys. By nature older scouts lead and younger scouts follow, so yes older scouts resist change and younger scouts will follow a vision. I'm glad you are evaluating the performance as you go along. Adults need to keep up so as not to get in the way. To help the ASMs and older scouts, keep preaching your vision of what you think the future boy run troop will look like and the benefits that come with that troop. You need everyone on board and selling them on the vision is the key. As for patrol activiities, try some patrol competitions to get the scouts used to working as a team and counting on each other. Lots of great ideas for competitions, but just something as simple as a knot tying race gets things going. And remember, time is your friend when forcing scouts to work as a team. I love agendas because they show the PLs when and where the patrol needs to be. Time builds discipline and continuity quicker than anything else I know of. Barry

Well there is that saying that you don't know what you don't know. Philmont runs 50,000 hikers through a year for how many umpteen years. It would be good to learn how many incident like this have occurred at Philmont over the years. And I'm not trying to justify one way or the other, but one of the reasons some folks don't care for outdoor youth activities is the the theoretical risk. I will say that I aged a lot of years while I was the SM because of the stress of worrying about risk. We are a very active troop and put forth a lot of effort to be safe. But, as was said, when you are a full day away from an emergency access, there is risk. Barry

We also did this with the Webelos Activity pins so scouts didn't have to wait so long. The parents got in the habit of arriving 10 minutes early before the end of the meeting so they could watch their son get awarded the pins. We still brought the scouts up front and at the pack meeting to present their cards to them in front of the whole pack. Barry

The difference between "boy run" and "boy run in the ground" are the methods adults use to help scouts move to the next stage of maturity. Experienced adults have grown over the years to develop techniques for giving scouts just enough confidence to move forward. I like to say give the scout a flashlight for venturing into the dark of their fear or ignorance. Most of the time the scouts program gets stagnant because the scouts just don't know how to move forward or they are afraid, which is the case for many of the youth leaders. The scouts don't need lectures or full instructions, they just need that little inspiring word or the one missing fact to get them moving again. We also have coaches as goto resources for the scouts. But the coaches are guided not to help the scouts without first being asked by the scout, and to try only ask the scout short questions to help him think himself forward. It's an art that takes practice. The objective is for the scout to create his solution and to learn from that decision. That is actually a difficult task for parents and as I said requires practice to master. As the scouts get older and mature, they naturally take over the coaching roles. The adults eventually get very few questions. Interestingly as our scouts have gotten use to adults only asking questions to help a scout create a solution, the older scouts use the same style for younger scouts. I often wonder how that will affect their parenting. Barry

I don't know, coaching to the point of making the BOR feel uncomfortable, is a bit much for me. I don't know about your EBOR, but ours isn't looking to make it a bad experience. If the scouts have a general idea of their skills, they are good to go. I advise all SMs observe an EBOR so they have a general idea of what to expect. My coaching was more of giving nervous scouts (and parents) enough confidence to sleep the night before. Barry

Our troop did this when I was a scout. But first each patrol had to kill the turkey (with an axe), clean and defeather it. Quite a memorable camp out for sure. Barry

We set four tubes of chicken wire standing vertical three feet apart in a square. We fill the tubes with charcoal and wrap aluminum foil around the square. Light the four tubes and set a turkey in the square, four hours later you have a nice brown turkey. It's basically like a large box reflector oven. Obviously other foods can be cooked in it, but we typcially use it for turkey. Barry

I came from a very boy led troop and I have very fond memories of our SM. The troop is usually the image of the SM and the Scouts know that. That is especially true in a boy run troop because while you don't see the SM very often, when he does visit, it has purpose and an impact. I tried to model much of my Scoutmastering after him. My scouts were lucky that he was a role model for me. Barry

Yep, I forgot. "On one campout" Thanks

There is no set answer. Let the scout do it how he wants: one meal on three camp outs, or all three on one camp out, or......... The objective of the requirement is learning the skills. Barry

This is how our troop got up to speed in high adventure and is the advice I gave to other troops over the years. You would be amazed how many adults in other troop would love to teach their skills and go along on the first trek. Call a few troops and ask for help and they will come. Also, there are a couple of Venturing Crews that love the opportunity to teach their skills and knowledge. The scouts love it. Barry

Our troop strives to be the lightest most efficient back county adventures we can be. The scouts will shave the handles of knives to save weight. But we all learned over the years that some comforts are worth the extra weight. No way I would take a dutch oven in the Norther Tier for a week, but I certainly understand why stosh would. Me personally, I HAVE TO HAVE a camp chair. It's like one of those stadium seats that separates your bottom from the cruel cold wet ground. So I understand why some folks value a good tasting meal on a back packing trek. In fact, I envy their willingness of sacrifice for pursuit of the passion. I really like good food, I'm just not a good cook and kind of lazy and would rather sit back in my camp chair after a long days trek. Barry

What is mine is yours. You may find me hesitant with my convertible. Barry

Yes, and sometimes the picture the parents see on the puzzle is themselves. Barry

Well said. When I was teaching Scoutmaster Fundamentals, I told the participants that they are servants of the parents. Imagine that the scout is a puzzle that the parents are building to make the person they possible can. His teacher is one puzzle piece, the piano teacher is another and the Sunday school teacher is another and yes, the coach. Parents hand pick these people they believe the guidance, experience and social interaction is building the perfect man. So when we leaders get anode with a scouts busy schedule that is getting in the way of our scouting world, remember it is honor to be chosen by the parents to be their part of their team. We are just one puzzle piece. Nothing more. I was also a soccer coach the entire time I was a scout leader. Barry

Oh I know what you mean, many of the over use small camp sites in the Northern Tier area are best described as plop camps. Barry

Been there and done that, but the icing on the cake was these scouts dragging their parents into the meeting so they could enjoy it as well. Barry

The data on the whole is that the two highest losses of scouts in the Cub program are the Tigers and Webelos IIs. The Webelos losses are a result of burnout and the Tigers are a result of requiring to much participation from the adults too fast. I have an anecdotal example as well. We had a pack in the district that decided to quit the Tiger program and start recruiting at the Wolf age or 2nd grade. Five years later the pack had roughly same number of scouts that it had 5 years previous. Barry

We are a back packing troop and may I suggest that when it comes time to aquire patrol gear, consider more on side of back packing style gear. Keep in mind that gear dropped from a plane at 35,000 ft will likely suffer less damage than a years worth of use by scouts. Barry

There are scholarships for scouts. They are harder to find because they don't typically go looking for scouts. The scout must search for them, but they are out there. I know the Methodist Foundation used to give scholarships, I'm not sure they do anymore. Barry

Yep, our troop average about 60% attendance during sport seasons, and 98% during off season. Boys want adventure as well as sports and don't want a hassle. There are a lot of troops that make sports a hassle. That being said, our PLC works hard, so scouts have to consider that when they are thinking about leadership. Barry

I would call the council and ask for the District Executive (DE) of your distirct. He/she will know all the names and contacts you are requesting and the answers to most of your questions. Typically the District Commissioner (DC) is your next best resource. The DE will know the name and number for the DC and other appropriate district resources to your questions. Hopefully you have a Unit Commissioner (UC), but don't count on it. If you don't, ask the DC if they could find you one. Barry

Our Dutch Ovens are used mostly for long slow cooking like crock pot meals. Throw in the ingredients in the early afternoon and a few hours later a delicious one pot meal is ready to be served. Honestly these kinds of meals are no brainers and require very little skill. We are a back packing troop, but I've never seen a dutch oven taken on a backpacking trek. Our guys took a lot of pride in packing light, so it wasn't even considered. I have read of some creative ideas for home made light weight back packing dutch ovens, we just never thought about it. Baarry

We don't seem to have these camp restrictions around here. Or if we do, it is something new. But remember the important objective of putting scouts in outdoor situations is letting them deal with the realities and making decisions so that they grow from the experiences. My angst with some programs is the scouts aren't allowed to be creative and make decisions with the situations presented to them. And sometimes the pump of creativity needs to be primed by the SM, but even then the objective is for the scouts to learn and grow from their decisions. I remember on the trail at Philmont, the next days hike took our crew through two activity areas that the scouts wanted to participate. One was fly-fishing, I don't remember the other. Anyway we would have to hike aggressively to participate in both activities and it appeared there wasn't enough time in the day. The other adult and I sat back rubbing our tired feet as the scouts came up with ideas to get both activities in the day. Turns out we had to get up at 4:00am, but all the scouts bought into the plan and dragged their adults on the trial by 4:00am. If time is a limitation, ask the scouts for help with ideas to make the best of the day. Even if they don't come up with a solution, keep them in the discussion so they know they were part of the team. Get them in the habit of fixing problems. Our scouts learned to always bring an idea for every problem presented. After a while, very few problems are presented. Barry