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Showing content with the highest reputation since 01/15/19 in all areas

  1. 18 points
    To everyone on scouter.com, Now that girls are already in the cub program and they are about to enter the scout program it's time to welcome them. That's a nice way of saying stop complaining about girls in the BSA. Every thread that is about girls entering troops has gone off the rails. There have been complaints about how the decision was made, the negative impact on boys, what's wrong with the BSA, and just a lot of anger. I understand that people want to complain in general but we can't have complaints about the decision to include girls any more. The reason is simple. No scout should feel unwelcome in this program. Any scout that abides by the Scout Oath and Law, or their parents, should never feel like they shouldn't belong. When people on this forum complain that the surveys were rigged or that girls will ruin it for the boys then the message every girl gets is that they aren't welcome and that their being in the BSA is a mistake. Now that girls are here the complaints need to stop and we have to welcome them. A scout is a friend to all. I'm not saying there can't be any griping anymore. The distinction between what I'm talking about and general frustration is simple. If a 12 year old girl reads a comment that says girls shouldn't be in the scout program of the BSA, or that the decision was a mistake, then that's what I'm talking about. For example, saying that you won't go to a summer camp or camporees where there are girls is just telling the girls they aren't welcome. Saying that your scouts have to get eagle and get out before the girls arrive is just saying girls aren't welcome. Saying that national didn't listen to everyone's opinion about girls is just saying nobody wants girls in troops. No girl in the BSA should read that on this forum. This argument is over. The BSA decided. It's time to be Obedient. For those that want to keep arguing there are a few options: 1) Accept the change. Be curious and see how this change plays out with an open heart. Girls are scouts and they're in the BSA to have fun with their friends in the outdoors. Change is always rough but it keeps happening. 2) Leave. Stand by your principles and realize it's time to move on and find another way to volunteer your time. BSA troops have changed and there's no going back. 2.1) Don't engage in these threads. For those that still want to be a part of the BSA but still aren't happy with girls: Understand that complaining about girls in the BSA has a negative impact on those girls, or their parents, that are reading these threads. Learn to let it go. 3) Fight it. You can PM me, the other moderators, or @SCOUTER-Terry if you don't like this decision. I'll be honest, we're tired of watching these threads. You can also just ignore this and keep complaining. Well, you can try but you're just going to make yourself bitter. And we'll remove your posts and ban you from this forum if you keep it up. @LeCastor, @RememberSchiff, @John-in-KC, @desertrat77, @NJCubScouter.
  2. 6 points
    I started reading this forum last year, as a parent of a girl who wants to join BSA, with the idea of learning more about the BSA as I prepare to become a volunteer. It has been extremely helpful to read the range of opinions. I have been impressed by the number of people (too many for me to remember all their names) who, even though preferring for Boy Scouts to remain single gender, have been kind and courteous to answer my questions and give good advice as to how to have a good program for the girls. And I have been encouraged by the number of people who are obviously genuinely enthusiastic about girls in the program. I can put up with a few curmudgeons. Actually, I have appreciated hearing from them, also. I have appreciated learning, in this online forum, what some of the sensitive issues are. Better for me to learn that here, rather than to accidentally and unnecessarily annoy some of the old-time scouters in my town.
  3. 5 points
    Devotedautismadhdmom: I think I finally read your whole nom de forum. I think I understand more and your dedication is to be applauded. To my mind, here is the final tally (I hope I have all the details right) : 1) You are the CCh for your Cub's Pack. 2) You were instrumental in the rebuilding of the Pack from a near abandonment to a well functioning Cub Pack. 3) Some new folks came along, and the male of the couple wants to be a Scout Leader, and because of a lack of CubMaster, assumed that role. 3) He refuses to fill out a proper application as a Scout leader, in that he will not allow a background check or Youth Protection Training, agree to other requirements. He is, therefore NOT a Scout Leader, in name or position. 4) He is argumentative and tries to take over things, regardless of the situation. 5) He will not discuss, only declare. There is a difference, yes? 6) He seems to want the best for his (?) girlfriend's boy, but not necessarily for anyone else's. Have I understood that correctly? 7) You have discussed the situation with the CO's IH and COR. and the District Executive and Commissioner. Is that correct? 8 ) Just about everyone (COR, IH, Parents,) agrees he is the problem, not you. 9) You have heard much sympathy and advice here on Scouter dot com. NOW. . . 10) Letters must be written. Emails must be sent. To the wannabe CM, yes? There must be agreement between and signatures from you, the COR and that is all that is necessary. Copies sent to the Council Scout Executive, the District Executive and... ? The wannabe Cub Master must be told he is NOT the Cub master. YOU must find a REAL one, who is registered, trained, enthusiastic. If the wannabe CM will not abide by the CO's decision, you have more legal things to consider. A no trespass order... For that , you may need a lawyer and the clerk of the court. I wish you well. See you on the trail...
  4. 4 points
    This is an old thread, but I found this sentence to be the crux of the matter. I did the mile swim last summer in the ocean at Emerald Bay Scout Camp. It wasn't for any patch, or for accolades or to prove anything to anybody but me. I did it because I wanted to see if I could do it and I had the chance to do it in the ocean. I'm 51 and out of shape, so it took a long time (1:15 to be exact), but I made it and that's all that matters. You can't keep from aging, but you can keep from getting old. If you do that, living with your self judgements isn't so bad.
  5. 4 points
    I would have this come from the COR. I would also include that he is not an approved leader and since he does not have a child in the program he is not welcome to attend pack/den events. If he shows up, then he will be escorted out and (if necessary) the authorities will be called. Yes, the COR and you need to be this firm. He is trying to take advantage of your willingness to "work things out". Nothing less than a complete prohibition from attendance.
  6. 4 points
    Does this mean that "Leadership Development" is no longer one of the Methods?
  7. 4 points
    Sad to learn that because it means National lost the understanding of the structure for developing moral and ethical decision makers. Leadership is but one of many actions that develops a scout's character and selflessness. Like the GSUSA, National is actually diminishing the importance of leadership actions by focusing it into an outward personality trait. The reality is that leadership method will have lost it's importance in the development of a scout because now the position of leadership will be a higher priority than the simple actions of the whole team. The result is adults will make sure scouts are put in leadership designated positions. They won't earn the honor, they will be assigned a stature for record. Leadership actions in scouting were intended to shape and enhance character traits, not turn into a personality trait. Few realize that followship actions are just as challenging and as much of a character developer as leadership actions. The actions of Followship are required for a successful team in the patrol method, and a well rounded person with moral and ethical decision traits. What a mess. Barry
  8. 3 points
    Back in my day (your day?), each Patrol was supposed to have a Patrol Leader, Assistant PL, A quartermaster (yes, we had stuff to take care of), a Treasurer, (who collected our dues monthly or weekly and presented them to the Troop Treasurer, who was an adult), and when we went camping, a grubmaster and Cook which changed as we went different places. I remember being each of these positions thru my Scout Career. When I graduated from Scouts, I left a well appointed Eagle Patrol. Our menu for a camp out could vary, but inevitably, we did our shopping on the way to the campground or trail head. We would stop at a Safeway or Acme (there were regular places depending on our direction) and the Patrol would run around the store collecting stuff. Dehydrated milk, cocoa, Tang, canned fruit, eggs (repacked in foam for the trip). Fresh hamburger meat would be frozen the night before, this being probably the only thing bought and arranged ahead of time, wrapped up well in foil and towels , and by the time dinner came around, it would still be cold but thawed out. The Treasurer paid for it, no parent's credit card, cash only. At the trail head, we parceled out the gear and food among the hikers, repacked everything, and set off. Some dad followed along behind, or had gone ahead to reserve the cabin or site. We had the map, or had been there before and knew the way. A hatchet, matches, flint and steel, tinder in a candy can, a plastic tarp tent, no roll up "umbrella " tent as of yet. We took a liking to a campsite in the Cunningham Falls state park, near a trout stream, nice short hike in, camp store a short quarter mile away. Fire rings, picnic tables, memories. Much later, after college, I called up a friend from another Troop, and said let's go up to Cunningham Falls for the weekend. He agreed, we gathered our gear, dusted off the old tents and sleeping bags, bought some Dinty Moore and set off. When we arrived, we drove around and around and could not find the entrance to the campground ! We finally gave up and stopped at the Ranger Station. Where was the Campground? Were our memories so faulty? No, the Ranger said, pointing at the map on the wall. We built a dam and formed a swimming lake two years ago. Your campground is now here, under about 50 feet of water. Sic Gloria mundi. No more trout stream there. We found a different campground.
  9. 3 points
    My son passed his BOR with flying colors last night! He is now an Eagle Scout.
  10. 3 points
    When our scouts earn their 1st class, they are eligible to sign off advancement if they take a couple of simple 5 minute training courses. One was writing a legible signature and date. Yes, that 5 minute course was a reaction. The other was a process for teaching. Basically it was: 1. Give your name, 2. Give the name of the skill you are teaching 3. Explain why and when to use the specific skill, and list the resource references. 4. Teach the skill until the student teaches it back to the teacher. I learned those 4 simple teaching guidelines at the old pre 21st Century Woodbadge course. When the Scouts were preparing for their EBOR, I usually suggested reviewing the "whys" of the skills since they couldn't be retested on demonstrating them. Barry
  11. 3 points
    I'm not sure if you're trying to make my point for me, or rebut. 🤣 Either way. My point is that there are much bigger and more powerful forces at play than just "The Improved Scouting Program Sucked." Which I believe it did hurt Scouting. I don't believe it was a decisive as some folks make it out to be. I could be wrong, and I am generalizing, but it's my understanding that the BSA is less successful in the inner cities as it is in the suburbs and rural areas of America. That's not to say there aren't strong pockets of Scouting in urban areas, or areas where there are significant non-white membership. That's also not to say there's something wrong with white people being the majority of membership in the BSA. It would follow that since the US is majority white and historically has been, and the BSA plays host to many generational families of Scouts, that the BSA would be majority white. The BSA doesn't publish member demographics that I could find easily, but they do publish data on "Available youth." Notice that for the millennial and generation X folks, the ones who are having Scout age children now, are less likely to white than their previous generations. You can find that stat on page 22 of the report. Almost a 10% drop from Boomers to Millenials/Gen X, which would make up the last 20-30 years or so of Scouting youth. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/media/ES_American_Households.pdf This data is for the late 2000's early 2010's. US Demographic data over time can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States In short, my argument is that the BSA is primarily a less urban, majority white organization, that many immigrants and non-whites don't feel a particular connection to. Give the decline in birth rates, stagnating of white population in the US, increasing urbanization, and population growth via immigration of non-white people, the BSA has failed to adapt in far more ways than just the poorly thought out "Improved" Scouting program. There's an element of failure to market the program to people who aren't part of that core constituency. That's not to say the BSA hasn't tried, but I'd argue that they've failed. That's both a BSA failure, and local leadership failure to broaden the tent and recruit a more diverse membership. We can see by Scouting's global reach, that Scouting's message and ideals are about as close to universal as we could hope for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Organization_of_the_Scout_Movement_members Combine that with all youth organizations in the US facing membership declines, slap on some poorly managed sex abuse, some culture war controversy, and it's pretty easy to see how the BSA's decline in membership is multifaceted and complex. It's far too simple to say "Improved Scouting Program killed the BSA.There's a bunch of variables and those things may or may not be a significant contributing factor.
  12. 2 points
    Week 7 July 21-27 at Philmont Training Center For both Youth and Adults. Sign up now!! These tracks will cover more than just paper targets. One track will follow Venturing Scouts–try your hand at shooting large bore rifles, sporting clays, cowboy action, three-gun, competition, and black powder rifles. Venturers even have the chance to get into Philmont’s backcountry! The second track allows Venturing Advisors to earn the NRA Instructors Certificate in pistol and shotgun! https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/PTC/conferencesO/VenturingShootingSportsSpectacular/
  13. 2 points
    Thank you for this. I’ve also gotten tired of the constant arguing and trying to turn back the clock. After years of advocacy for girls and gays, we finally have an inclusive program. The decision has been made and these girls - our girls - are going to be Scouts. Let’s give them an amazing welcome!
  14. 2 points
    Amen. A Scout is courteous. 78,000 girls joined Cub Scouting in just a few weeks this fall. In a couple of weeks, it’s likely there will be a lot of troops starting, from what I’ve heard (one council alone has almost 90 troops ready to start with trained leadership, older Venture girls taking key positions, etc.). Guess National found a few out there that actually wanted the program. You are right, Matt, online forums often bring out the worst (and I’ve watched this one for a long time before joining), however, the personal attacks and just constant negativity would certainly fail to inspire any new leader. I’ve not recommended any new leaders to check this one out from fear they will become discouraged with so much negativity. Some complaining is just fine, but really, if most would just act like Scouts, this could be a place of support and encouragement for all. Just my .02.
  15. 2 points
    I recently chatted with a new scoutmaster. He talked about all his 2019 summer camp plans, how he'd coordinate everything, campfire songs to sing, skits to teach the scouts, etc. I felt he was planning to insert himself significantly into the scout's experience. My coaching to him was that his plans were nice and sounded fun, but may not be the right venue. I usurped Galadriel's quote from Lord Of The Rings and suggested he remember that our job is to diminish and let the scouts come into their own. It's their camp, their experiences, etc. We are to support, enable and protect, but our job is to mainly sit in the shadows, have a nice coffee and play cards. I think this is the hardest job for adult leader's to learn. Our main job is to diminish.
  16. 2 points
    Family Life Merit Badge has a requirement about talking what makes an effective father and why. I think the separate gender Troops won’t be followed fully and is doomed to fail, but that was BSA’s decision so separate books align with that bad call. They are being consistent..
  17. 2 points
    Correct, he was not registered. But he may try to submit the application directly to the council. I know that applications missing signatures will sometimes slip by. And I know of a case where the signatures were forged.
  18. 2 points
    I had thought that I had met the ultimate in control freak scoutmasters about 20 years ago, but I think that yours just won that very dubious honor.Hands down. There are identical character traits however. OCD may be playing a part. Grammer? He wants to spec the screw head design? The kind of chips? Note that he passed the responsibilities of these demands to the retired scoutmaster and the eagle board. But by far the most telling is his statement of " This is how I do it, and you have to have MY signature- and I'M not signing" Houston, we have a problem ! And it's that the SM is not only not helping his scouts, he is actively hindering them. I cannot help but wonder how many Scouts before your son have given up in frustration or disgust on ever ever getting their Eagle. My .02 cents? Go to the distrust advancement chair and the DE. If that yields no quick results go to Council. Bullying little tin gods have no business being scoutmasters.
  19. 2 points
    This is the primary place where BSA training has failed. First off, training sets the standard for the whole of the program. I used to teach District leaders that if the units are consistently doing something wrong, training is likely the cause. If a district wants to change consistent unit performance, they must do it through training. Second, modern BSA training gives a lot of what to do, but not the why. The old handbooks and training syllabuses provided a great deal of instruction that included the why. That is why you will find the best scoutmasters today generally have read and can quote from the writings of the creators of the scouting movement (Powell, Boyce, Seton and Hillcourt). Their writings provided purpose and methods to the mission. Because it's not trained, 90% of today's Scoutmasters don't understand the relationship between the BSA Mission, 3 Aims, or the 8 Methods. In fact, very few SMs can even say the 3 Aims, much less the 8 Methods. Without realizing it, Scoutmasters are the salesmen and saleswomen of the BSA, if not in their words, then in their performance. If leaders don't understand how the building blocks work toward developing ethical and moral decision makers, how can anyone outside-looking-in possibly understand. This is why Patrol Method as the primary rail to the mission of building moral and ethical decision makers is crumbling in the modern program. Nobody respects how the method gets a young person from point A to point Z. Barry
  20. 2 points
    I have noticed my own tendency to want to change how things are done or be critical of some of the other scout leaders. When I completed my training and recognized just how far my pack had deviated from recommended practice, the urge to point all of this out to the other leaders began to strengthen. Then I completed some face-to-face training and had the chance to hear from other leaders who were doing great things and again I had the urge to tell my CM about how everyone else was doing things and suggest that we should try some of them. It takes a conscious effort not to act on these thoughts. I suspect this individual (potential CM) has never been a leader of other volunteers and doesn't know that scorched earth strategies take years to recover from and the amount of work he is taking on is tenfold. If he ever becomes a leader (I hope not), he will start to berate the parents and other volunteers for not doing things his way. As you describe it, I am not sure this situation is recoverable. In the end, the decisions should be centered around what is in the best interest of the kids, including the child he is bringing to the meetings. Happy volunteers (adult leaders) are a necessary part of this program. So please consider what it will take to keep the most number of these adult leaders happy in the long run. This is usually the same decisions that are in the best interest of the most number of kids.
  21. 2 points
    As you may know a kidnapped Wisconsin teenager escaped her captor and the first person she found was a retired child social worker Jeanne Nutter walking her dog Henry. Amazing, how at times, there is just the right person or group of people there at the right time when a need arises. She needed to be in a safe place. Safety, Safety, Safety, ... kids need to be safe...ask questions later, talk softly, few questions...dusk off my Child protection skills... no matter what I did that child was going to be safe - Jeanne Nutter. Scout Salute to Jeanne Nutter.
  22. 2 points
    They're scouts. I doubt they'll smell sweet.
  23. 2 points
    Thanks for the replies. I feel that the BSA is getting lax on many rules and policies and that means the honors are becoming less meaningful. I earned my Eagle in 1991 and worked hard. It seems now the BSA basically says sign it off and do not question. Have been an OA Brotherhood since 1990 and that meant something, as I was also on the dance team. Again, OA has seemed to lighten the requirements for this year. Not trying to be a Drill Sergeant but again these honors are becoming a dime a dozen. NOT every Scouts will earn/deserve Eagle nor will everyone earn/deserve to be an Arrowman. I will have a chat with the Scouts as mentioned and gather the scope of their involvement in the family camp.
  24. 2 points
    You as CC and the COR are both responsible for approving all adult leaders in your unit. Since you're both on the same page that this person should not be your CM, and it sounds like there are some red flags that would pop up on a background check, this should be a short meeting. You need to let this person know that their services are no longer needed. Inform your DE and unit commissioner of your decision. But ultimately the decision is all on you. Your council will let you know that this is a matter between you, your chartered organization, and the individual who wants to be your Cubmaster. They still, though, need to be kept in the loop on what is transpiring. The council would get involved only if this application ever made its way to the registrar's desk with all that missing information. Because this person has not had his application approved by you and the COR, submitted to council, or had a background check passed, he should not be at meetings attempting to perform the duties of a Cubmaster. His actions alone should disqualify him: he refused to sign the religious principles declaration, refuses to authorize a background check, and I'd be willing to bet he hasn't taken YPT. He needs to be informed that his services are no longer needed.
  25. 1 point
    During the government shutdown, lets help those also who help others at all times in all weather. Semper paratus. https://www.dvidshub.net/image/2833894/coast-guard-rescues-15-sea-scouts-1-adult-capsized-sailboat
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