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Ever since @CalicoPenn went nuclear a few pages ago this thread seems unrecoverable. Agree to disagree 😀

Maybe we should go back to arguing about art?

IMHO that is indeed the problem. Webelos IS the transition period between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. Webelos IS when they go from parents signing off to Activity Badge instructors signing off. Webelos IS when they start going from "Do Your Best" to "Master The Skills." Webelos IS when they need to start doing more during their camp outs. Sadly I am seeing more and more packs and WDLs treat Webelos as a continuation of Cub Scouts rather than a a transition to Boy Scouts. I'll give you three examples of how transitioning during Webelos does work. My Webelos den growing up did more than

To me this is what is critical going forward. If you are against girls joining, I understand. But if you cannot treat girls that are in BSA with the same respect and honor you treat other scouts then it is time to consider your future in scouting.

You should work on improving your swimming.

Not discounting your anecdotal experience But to be clear, there is nothing preventing her Girl Scout troop from doing any of the activities similar to a BSA unit. That is their choice. Not knowing the breakdown, demographics, or flow of participants within GSUSA; one would presume that if there was demand for mirror type activities similar to the BSA, then that would have been incorporated. Perhaps GSUSA is as tone deaf as BSA with regards to actual things that happen at the actual unit with actual scouts. As long as you sell cookies, all is well

For Tiger though Bear (and Lion, I assume), parents are only supposed to sign off for requirements that are completed outside of the den meetings / activities. Even then, the Den Leader is supposed to consult with the family or the Scout to confirm completion, and then the Den Leader approves the requirement. For Webelos, the Den Leader signs for approval of all requirements, but the Den Leader can delegate this responsibility. For example, a Webelos Den Leader could delegate approval of a particular adventure to a Webelos adventure pin counselor. This serves as a good introduction to

Ooh. I do like to talk about art. But I suppose that would be straying too far off topic.

I'm reminded that these are all just youth we're talking about here. For the most part they all just want to have fun and be accepted by the people they meet. The kids may have different backgrounds, but those backgrounds are mostly outside of their control - they come from parents, families, and communities. In other words, thr scouts may all come from different backgrounds - but when they get to camp they are just kids who want to have a good time. I fully respect and appreciate that we all want to raise our kids by the values we think important. The challenge to us as Scout

My point was that scouts/scouters should overcome these disagreements - trite or serious depending on whose perception - and participate in scout activities together. A Scout is a Friend to All and a Brother to Every Other Scout ? Sorry if I was unclear. Maybe this should be a JTE or Camping MB requirement: each year every troop must camp with another troop. One on one. I wonder if the adults could get through Friday night? My $0.02

He quickly accepted the swim team idea (in the past, he has HATED the idea), but he is determined to impress his peeps by passing the test in June. His legs are strong due to daily inline skating. I think the swim coach will great for him...he will gain endurance AND learn the proper stroke techniques. I'm excited for him. I think each new skill will make him feel accomplished. More importantly, he will absolutely know that when he passes, he really earned it. Its his alone and he can take a lot of pride in it.

World-shaming? I cannot understand why any scout or scouter would say they will not participate in a scouting activity with other scouts because those scouts are girls, gays, geeks, SPED, blacks, Muslims, LDS, gingers, vegans, jocks, ... I am old and remember when black Boy Scouts could not attend our summer camp yet we attended the same high schools. My friends attended a separate black scout camp. We have disagreements, but we are all scouts. My $0.02

xj-boonie, welcome to the ecracker barrel. Here in Murlin, we have many Scouter.com'ers. You say you are "getting into hammocking." I see that as no problem. My problem has always been "getting out" of the hammocking .

I've been gradually working my way through the training videos on my.scouting.org, in particular the SM/ASM series. I must say that I am impressed. They are helping me understand how, in theory, the roles fit together in an idealized troop. I found the GSUSA leader training (which is all council-specific) singularly unhelpful. As a troop leader, mostly I had to rely on memories of my childhood troops, and my collection of old Girl Scout handbooks, supplemented with what I could turn up with the help of google. The one training I did find helpful was my council's "Tent Camp Training" -

GSUSA may say that they are girl-led (they say it ALL the time), but they are not. Never in my entire life as a former girl scout did I have control over anything. They have "leaders" and those are "troop leaders", and the girls follow their leader. They may also say that they develop the best girl leaders, but I have yet to see a leadership development program for girls, and my daughter is a cadette. This may happen in the older years, but the development is not for leadership. It IS to make confident, capable young ladies that can manage work...but a leader is more than that. Basically

I also love neckerchiefs and wish that more troops would bring them back, especially now that they come in a larger size. It always seemed to me that the neckerchief is the most characteristic and recognizable element of the scout uniform.

I absolutely disagree with you on this point. My daughter is a Girl Scout. She is bored to tears and cannot wait to be able to do all the cool things her older brother gets to do. The GSUSA program is very open-ended, so leaders who don't like to camp run programs without camping. The BSA program is much more rigid, and heavily biased towards being outdoors. We will not be poaching from GSUSA, except for those who are NOT being served by their existing Troop's program. We will be attracting young women who want the adventure that a properly run Troop offers.

Remember the why behind the swimming emphasis in the BSA, it is a needed life skill From 2005-2014, there were an average of 3,536 fatal unintentional drownings (non-boating related) annually in the United States about ten deaths per day An additional 332 people died each year from drowning in boating-related incidents. About one in five people who die from drowning are children 14 and younger For every child who dies from drowning, another five receive emergency department care for nonfatal submersion injuries Swimming skills help Taking part in

You know, if I ever had the opportunity to speak to your son I would ask that he reconsider. While I have never camped at a world jamboree I did have the privelidge of going to the European Jamboree in 2005. It was an extraordinary experience. To one side of my unit were Italians, the other side of them were Irish. The side of us were Polish, the other side of them Isralie. Across the track from us were Dutch, Swiss, Portugese and Ugandan units. Altogether I think there were 68 countries with contingents there from across Europe and many beyond. In 2015 my group were luck enough to send 5

This is pretty much the exact same argument folks had when the BSA announced that it would allow gay boys in Scouts but allow Troops to make their own decision on whether to include gay boys or not. The opponents of the inclusion of gay boys weren't content enough to accept that they would have a local (re Troop/CO level) choice of whether or not to include gay boys. They wanted to make sure their neighboring Troops didn't have that choice either because they didn't want their gay-boy free Troop to have to interact with Troops that had gay boys at summer camp, camporees, flag ceremonies, etc