Jump to content

All Activity

This stream auto-updates     

  1. Past hour
  2. Eagle94-A1

    Why no "trained" shoulder emblem for NAYLE ?

    Not enough demand for it. I remember reading that there has to be X number of people eligible for it for them to produce it, excepting high level recognition like Silver Antelope. I am assuming there is a cool NAYLE temp patch. The previous course did.
  3. Scouts typically wear a "Trained" emblem on their shoulder if they completed ILST.... ...or a "NYLT" emblem if they completed more advanced leadership training.... ...but why isn't there a similar "NAYLE" emblem for the scouts who complete BSA's highest level youth leadership training?
  4. Eagledad

    BSA patrol method is lost in the fog

    Well, I'm with you, this isn't the subject thread to debate. All I'll say is my experience is the opposite of your bullet points. Sadly, your bullets suggest scouts don't mature past juvenile self-servingness. As for giving up on teaching, well I guess, but again you are defining the two different mentalities for mixed age and same age patrols. Mixed age relies on the role modeling to foster growth. Same age relies on outside instruction support for growth. Mixed age from its conception was intended for self-contained independent patrols. Same age patrols require an outside support structure. They are giving up on teaching because their experiment failed. Patrol method is designed for independent growth and teaching doesn't allow that kind of independence. The fears behind your bullets say you don't trust (or even believe) role modeling has power for developing character. I have worked and counseled many adult leaders with the same thoughts about role modeling. The same age patrol approach to youth development simply doesn't lend itself to the original design of Patrol Method, and your frustration is reflected in your original post asking "What is the guiding reason for having patrols?". Watching those adults, you either have to change your expectations of scout growth, or just take what you get and know it's the best you can do. Barry
  5. Jameson76

    The "Right Way" to retire U.S. Flag...

    So - The United States Flag Code, Title 4, Section 8k states-“The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem of display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.” Pretty much that is about the only instruction. There are many ways to do this is a dignified manner, and that interpretation (dignified manner) would be up to the unit and those performing the retirement
  6. Today
  7. I'm a media junkie and while prowling the news this morning, came across the following story about Boy Scouts retiring flags: https://www.nj.com/hunterdon/2019/05/boy-scout-troop-200-retires-us-flags-in-lebanon-borough.html One line in that story particularly jumped out at me: Local vexillologist and former Troop 200 Scoutmaster Larry Friend shared his extensive knowledge about the American flag and its history and explained the role of the Color Guard, the proper way to retire flags and flag etiquette. Now, every flag burning that I've ever attended was done just a bit differently from the others. My understanding was always that there isn't really any such thing as a "proper way to retire flags" ---- as long as your flag retirement is respectful, it's a good ceremony. Is there actually a "proper way" to retire flags? What are the elements of a "proper" flag burning ceremony?
  8. mrkstvns

    Loveland Castle, Chateau Larouche (OH)

    That sounds completely amazing. I just love hearing about people who think outside the box and let their dreams guide their actions. There is a somewhat similar story around these parts of a guy who owns a bakery in the town of Bellville, Texas. He visited castles in Europe and decided that he needed to build himself one too. The result is Newman's Castle which is open for tours to those who patronize his bakery... http://newmanscastle.com/
  9. qwazse

    Memorial Day

    Our troop coordinates the district in placing flags at a large cemetery. Looks like we'll be working around some storms tonight.
  10. The basics of all these skills are taught to new adult leaders in the IOLS (Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills) course. This is required for Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters in order to be considered "trained" for their position. Scoutmasters and the more dedicated/hardcore ASMs tend to pursue additional training as they grow into their roles. That might include Wood Badge, or it might take the form of specific skills that enable them to lead or do more within scouting (like taking Wilderness First Aid courses so that they can lead crews at high adventure bases). Parents of new scouts generally do not know much about camping, and few could tie knots, demonstrate map and compass skills, or do the basic first aid tasks that a young scout is asked to demonstrate. But parents can learn and have fun doing it. Like my dad used to say, "You can always teach an old dog a new trick."
  11. Sounds like you'd create a more relevant, challenging program. In addition to incorporating more Orienteering and Wilderness Survival skills, I'd include the "challenging" requirements from Pioneering MB. Using lashings to make something really COOL would be challinging and a practical demonstration of using kntos and lashings. (Besides, who doesn't want to try out a monkey bridge??) I also think that skills in handling watercraft are useful and relevant. Maybe sailing, or maybe kayaking or canoeing. Basic river rescue skills could also be useful. Swimming skills at the level that they could save a life would be nice: complete BSA Lifeguard, or complete BSA Aquatics Supervision: Swimming and Water Rescue (or similarly challenging course, such as Red Cross or YMCA lifeguard certifications). I think it would also be useful to challenge scouts to master some subset of skills to the level they can teach it, for example, get a Red Cross CPR instructor certificate, or become a Leave No Trace trainer, or complete the USA Archery instructor course. (Not just go through the motions using EDGE, but actually be able to teach a skill "for real").
  12. jr56

    Hornaday Award????

    This was back in 2000. Has probably changed since then.
  13. RememberSchiff

    Not Quite Prepared for Philmont

    Insoles help me. I wear Sole Reds now. I previously wore Superfeet Green which are popular. I had to experiment which gets expensive though less than a $400 custom orthopedic insert. This link will give you an idea of different brands. I have not bought from this online store. I buy Soles from local shoe store and Superfeet from REI. https://www.theinsolestore.com/backpacking-hiking-boot-insoles.html?foot_conditions=396
  14. Do parents today (your future leader pool) have the ability to teach these skills? Asking for a friend.
  15. fred8033

    BSA patrol method is lost in the fog

    Maybe. My interpretation is they learn faster, they learn better and create more memories. Too many leaders jump on mixed age patrols as an excuse for not trusting the scouts after failed mentoring. You can embed the older scout expertise into the patrol, but it comes at horrible consequences. Leadership of peers is not earned or learned. Real patrol elections are subverted (will go to the oldest boy 16 years old versus 11 years old). Decisions often can be done by intimidation or bowling over the younger scouts. Patrol pride is subverted as patrols change over time. IMHO, my a scout can change patrols at any time but my "ideal" is a scout's patrol works well together, wanting to do similar things and stays together for 6/7+ years. Patrol identify is subverted as patrols are not doing similar things. Yes, they may cook together or plan together. But ... Few can share a tent together. IMHO, tent sharing across patrols is one of the biggest ways to subvert the patrol method. Individual scouts are constantly breaking off. To go hang with their buddies. To do basic learning at summer camp. To go on higher activities. Bad habits and bad behavior is past on. Conversational topics of 15/16/17 year olds is very different than 11/12 year olds. Pals can often call each other on bad behavior or know how to ignore it. 11/12 year olds will mimic to get on the good side of the older scout. I think we can easily and justifiably debate this back and forth. My issue is less the debate. My issue is BSA had a fairly consistent story over time. The latest leader guide reflects that BSA is giving up on teaching patrol method. Instead, BSA is saying patrol method is critical and we should go figure it out.
  16. mrkstvns

    First Class 1a - Troop Activities

    A few things that might be considered as counting towards 1C requirement 1a (troop/patrol activities): troop campouts patrol day hike (5-mile hike, orienteering course, 10-mile hike, etc., even if it also counts towards other rank/advancement requirements) participation in district/council activities (if done as a troop/patrol group), for example, Scout Fair, helping at Pushcart or Webelos campouts helping fellow scouts on Eagle project helping fellow scouts on Hornaday project participating in other troop/patrol service project (for example, helping senior citizens weatherize houses) participating in Merit Badge midway event (if done as troop/patrol group, but not if done individually) participating with troop in Scouting for Food drives participating with troop/patrol in Scout Sunday activities participating with troop/patrol in unit fundraising activities, e.g., bake sale or car wash As long as it's something that was done within the scouting program as a troop or patrol group (and not as an individual), I think it's fair to let a scout count it as an "activity". I'm not inclined to let a scout who is a Den Chief count activities done by the den or pack towards this requirement....
  17. Eagledad

    BSA patrol method is lost in the fog

    I think you just pointed out the failure. Same age patrols are a contradiction of patrol method because continued scout growth requires outside intervention from an experienced resources. Not that mixed age is the only method, it’s just preferred for growth relying on the patrol members. Many SMs used a same age patrol style because it fit their leadership style and goals best. But the troop structure requires some considerations to have success with same age patrols. i think it’s easier for a same age SM to work within the older traditional SM handbook than a mixed age SM working with the same age program. I’m speaking from the experience of working both sides. Barry
  18. qwazse

    Not Quite Prepared for Philmont

    There's nothing like burning through the calories in a morning to solve picky eaters. But the nice thing about Philmont is exchanges. There are locations to drop off what you don't like and pick up something some other crew doesn't like. Plus, it's likely to make trades mid trail. Evidently my venturers despised green beans, but they kept crossing paths with a contingent from Tennessee who couldn't live without them. Those exchanges solved a lot of problems. P.S. - I've never been to this HA base myself, I merely conditioned with my crew for everyone's mutual benefit. My venturers and leaders who did go were pretty thorough with the after-action review. In fact they were half the reason I had a crew. Some went while scouts and came back wanting to return so they could "do it right."
  19. MikeS72

    First Women

    Correct! Both of these young ladies are part of a Venture Crew, and were already very active in the council, both with their crew and at the council camp.
  20. fred8033

    BSA patrol method is lost in the fog

    I fear we read different things into the quotes of Baden Powell and Hillcourt and others. I fear BSA's definition of patrol has been mucked up by poor wording choices. I prefer the 1950s boy scout handbook (page 88): "The Scout patrol is the finest boys' gang in all the world. The patrol is the unit that makes Scouting go. It is a group of boys, usually six to eight, who pal together because they like to do the same things." ... I thought Hillcourt (or another author quoted with Hillcourt) wrote as a gang of friends who wanted to hang together and do things together. Where you say "new scout (same age patrol) experiment failed", I don't see it ... but I won't argue. Troops fail with it often, but it often seems a reflection of the unit vision than the idea. My issue is with troop positions such as troop guide and instructor and ASPLs there to help coach the PLs. It seems like BSA's documentation just does not line up. If suggesting mixed age, then troop guide and instructors have little work. If new scout patrol, then there is a strong need for troop guides, instructors and mentoring of new scout patrol PLs. I just don't see a vision promoted from BSA on how to make all of this work and I think it's to the detriment of the scouts.
  21. mrkstvns

    First Women

    Thanks, Hawkwin! It slipped my mind that girls could have been active as Venturers or Sea Scouts. Appreciate the reminder!
  22. mrkstvns

    Hornaday Award????

    Really?!?! That doesn't jibe with the info I see on scouting.org, which says: "The Hornaday Awards Committee meets three or four times a year. Therefore, applicants must recognize the lead time involved." See: https://www.scouting.org/awards/hornaday-awards/judging/
  23. Hawkwin

    First Women

    https://oa-bsa.org/article/2018-membership-update
  24. mrkstvns

    First Women

    That's too bad because it means the local lodge is likely ignoring or skirting the rules for OA membership. How does someone who has only been eligible for membership in BSA suddenly achieve 15 nights of camping with 1 long-term (5 night) camp? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for girls in BSA, but I'd be a lot happier if they actually earned their accolades instead of getting there by exception or fiat. These "firsties" devalue the honor that so many scouts have legitimately earned.
  25. HelpfulTracks

    Memorial Day

    Flags at the veterans cemeteries
  26. mrkstvns

    Memorial Day

    This coming weekend is Memorial Day. For many scouting families, it marks the winding down of the school year and the beginning of the summer vacation season. Swimming pools are open for business and college students are back home for a respite. Memorial Day means so much more though. It's a time to remember America's fallen soldiers, and many scout troops will mark the occasion with flag service events at local veterans cemeteries, battlefields, or other military landmarks. Does your troop do something special for Memorial Day?
  27. FireStone

    Why are Cub Scout uniforms and universal clothing items?

    We made universal neckerchiefs and paracord slides for our Pack. I know that's not officially allowed, but whatever, we got tired of the nickel-and-dime routine too. Our neckers are really sharp, with a custom embroidered patch on them. Cost $12 but last all throughout their Cub years. It is ridiculous. Why on earth there are 3 different belt buckles is beyond me. It really is set up to just sell us more stuff. Not at all thrifty.
  1. Load more activity
  • Posts

    • Not enough demand for it. I remember reading that there has to be X number of people eligible for it for them to produce it, excepting high level recognition like Silver Antelope. I am assuming there is a cool NAYLE temp patch. The previous course did. 
    • Scouts typically wear a "Trained" emblem on their shoulder if they completed ILST.... ...or a "NYLT" emblem if they completed more advanced leadership training.... ...but why isn't there a similar "NAYLE" emblem for the scouts who complete BSA's highest level youth leadership training?
    • Well, I'm with you, this isn't the subject thread to debate. All I'll say is my experience is the opposite of your bullet points. Sadly, your bullets suggest scouts don't mature past juvenile self-servingness. As for giving up on teaching, well I guess, but again you are defining the two different mentalities for mixed age and same age patrols. Mixed age relies on the role modeling to foster growth. Same age relies on outside instruction support for growth. Mixed age from its conception was intended for self-contained independent patrols. Same age patrols require an outside support structure. They are giving up on teaching because their experiment failed. Patrol method is designed for independent growth and teaching doesn't allow that kind of independence.  The fears behind  your bullets say you don't trust (or even believe) role modeling has power for developing character. I have worked and counseled many adult leaders with the same thoughts about role modeling. The same age patrol approach to youth development simply doesn't lend itself to the original design of Patrol Method, and your frustration is reflected in your original post asking "What is the guiding reason for having patrols?". Watching those adults, you either have to change your expectations of scout growth, or just take what you get and know it's the best you can do. Barry
    • So - The United States Flag Code, Title 4, Section 8k states-“The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem of display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.” Pretty much that is about the only instruction.  There are many ways to do this is a dignified manner, and that interpretation (dignified manner) would be up to the unit and those performing the retirement
    • I'm a media junkie and while prowling the news this morning, came across the following story about Boy Scouts retiring flags:
      https://www.nj.com/hunterdon/2019/05/boy-scout-troop-200-retires-us-flags-in-lebanon-borough.html One line in that story particularly jumped out at me: Local vexillologist and former Troop 200 Scoutmaster Larry Friend shared his extensive knowledge about the American flag and its history and explained the role of the Color Guard, the proper way to retire flags and flag etiquette. Now,  every flag burning that I've ever attended was done just a bit differently from the others.  My understanding was always that there isn't really any such thing as a "proper way to retire flags" ---- as long as your flag retirement  is respectful, it's a good ceremony.  Is there actually a "proper way" to retire flags? What are the elements of a "proper" flag burning ceremony?
  • Who's Online (See full list)

  • Popular Contributors

×