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agreed
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Well, I said I would not say more, but being sure about what I thought I had seen, I found an online copy of the discontinued Tour Permit. Here is what I likely read and to which I referred. Read the last line or two; it specifically says "If more than one vehicle is used to transport our group, we will establish rendezvous points at the start of each day and not attempt to have drivers closely follow the group vehicle in front of them." "' 1. We will use the Safe Swim Defense in any swimming activity, Safety Afloat in all craft activity on the water, and Climb On Safely for climbing ac
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I saw that once in northern Indiana. Some places have unwritten rules that are more solid than legislation,
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Apples and oranges. My polling was between 1995 to 2005. Nothing has changed that would affect my conclusions. Several events have occurred in the last 15 years to draw National’s conclusions today. But, the burnout problem is still there and not being addressed. Barry -
Most but not all of the Scout Reach programs in our area are school based programs rather than traditional units.
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Most of the minorities in my area are part of "scout reach" units who's numbers are suspect. They never appear at summer camp, camporees, etc. There is history of BSA inflating their minority stats by counting kids in scout reach that are never active.
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We're both probably missing stuff here as not everything is available/clearly defined yet. Supposedly the SB+ stuff is being cleaned up right now and some of this confusion should go away. I really wish they had just published hardcopy leader guides for the wolves-aol. Hoping back and forth between the handbooks and the website is going to get old fast.
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Let me kick the hornets nest here. During the NAM the marketing presentation broke down the demographics by race and locality of BSA and made some crazy claims. Specifically nationals marketing was concerned about over-representation of Asians and Whites, and suburban and rural. I had to just accept the numbers on what national considers suburban/rural/core city membership (right?); however, they gave percentages of membership race composition and I took those right away and compared them to the 2020 US census national composition and BSAs racial makeup is +/- 1% by racial composition. Ther
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When you asked those people to step up did you provide any written position descriptions? In my experience literally taking the position descriptions out of the leader guides and providing them works wonders. Written position descriptions sets fair barriers for people. Did you explain that volunteering for the position is not forever and is a 1 year obligation that they can renew or walk away from? I am involved with several units and I will compare and contrast the best functioning to the worst functioning. The best functioning literally just runs the program; no "we do it this way be -
So how do you reconcile your findings against nationals findings?
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But I know not how to rebuild an eye lost to trauma, nor repair a broken bone, nor restore breath to a crushed body. I DO know how to discuss safety in advance of horrific loss. Extremism in defense of Safety is no Vice.
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And for mixing discussions of nonsense and safety. I am known for, and sometimes derided for, being a a "safety nut." And the safety issue of convoying entirely escaped me.
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This triggered a long ago memory when I was a new district commissioner and attended a cub recruitment at a local elementary school (when we were still invited). The person in charge got up in front and welcomed them all, then immediately began separating the kids, and their were a number of them then, into age groups. Once that was done, he turned to the parents and adults and asked. Okay, who is going to give their time to make these excited youngsters have their program? A couple hands went up, but that was it. So, since there was far too many for two people to handle, he again turned -
Excellent point. A bona fide data point to evaluate the wisdom of convoying. I've seen that in funeral processions with 20 or 30 cars. Running stop signs en masse, etc. I once saw a strange pattern of streaming traffic coming off a side road onto a state highway (very rural)-all running the stop sign. No hearse in view, and given the layout and topography, had there been a hearse, it should have been in view, but apparently it was so far ahead of the procession as to be out of sight. No vehicles had funeral running flags on the hoods, nor headlights on… All confusing to me. No traffic
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This is one of the "lightbulb" moments that come from this forum that make it so helpful. At our Court of Honor last night, the plea went out again to the new parents to step up and help. This is probably the third or fourth time it has been said. That simple statement above will help redefine how we ask for help and what we're asking for help with. -
I love Mike Rowe. This echos everything I believe about the BSA and I was that young Scout, too.
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Interestingly, I just ran across this, from Mike Rowe. It say much that can relate to this subject. I agree with most of what he suggests, and I even like the song Be Prepared that is linked. https://mikerowe.com/2018/05/otw-death-of-the-boy-scouts/
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How about we simply agree that actual convoying is not the best idea, and that defensive driving and obeying the law are paramount. Call it follow the leader, or don't lose the others, or convoying, but it has been discouraged in whatever form for a long time. A policy, maybe not on paper. Common sense is all we need. Why do we need to make it bigger than needed? My last comment, as I have little patience at my seasoned age for nonsense.
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Recently I was driving somewhere and it became apparent that I was in the vicinity of a few cars that were in a convoy. Their driving to maintain proximity and eye contact with each other created a dangerous situation, These other drivers were oblivious to everyone else due to their primary objective of staying in a group. Since I was able to discern which vehicles were involved, I was able to maintain being safe. While I am sure some very capable drivers would be able to drive in a convoy and maintain safety, it does add just one more item by which one could be distracted.
- Last week
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"Aye, it be more of a non-recommended technique than a 'policy''. Three cars, mebbe. More'n that, them traffic lights and things interfere, dun ye know...""
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Following up on this promise to inquire, I spoke with a superbly capable Cub and Troop leader, on Saturday, an electrical engineer for a fortune 50 corporation. A sharp and impressive individual, calm, measured, and balanced in his reaction to everything. Because he is confident in his understanding of circumstances and ability to respond appropriately. A role model to though he is 20 years younger. Said he'd never heard of an anti convoy policy. This month's Round Table in my district (no reason given) has been cancelled, but I plan to attend the next in August and present a written
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Concur and withdraw my conclusion. (Wish I could edit above, but so be it). As you noted, per Jeremy Castleberry, "the council offered to a a boys only also.. But the idea lacked interest from boys only troops." Therefore no argument can be made that this is a problem as the non-elected group chose not to have a like event.
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If you read the comments on the facebook site, the council did offer a boys-only version, but there was not enough interest. If true, then there is no issue here, huh?
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Iteration is the number of events occurring of the same type. Normally one reviews what happens and make changes for the next event with an eye toward improving. I think you are creating a strawman. The event doesn't address any of the concerns you bring up. Frankly, it create more friction by identifying girls as special members rather than equal members. If this was something like the Catholic Camporee in that it is hosted by the Catholic Committee on Scouting and the Knights of Columbus are cooking a dinner and a breakfast for the participants, but it is open to all Scouts, then I
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A Council-sponsored exclusionary event raises red flags. Perhaps those issues were addressed in the Council before announcing this program. Any program in Scouting which explicitly excludes a portion of the membership should be scrutinized (not necessarily barred). There are a few questions which must all be answered "yes" to establish this is consistent with Scouting values 1) "Is the exclusion of a portion of the BSA programs consistent with the Guide to Safe Scouting?" (So, only Cubs, AOLs and Scouts, Cubs and Scouts doing Cub stuff, only Scouts doing Scout-age stuff, only Crews doing
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Well, I said I would not say more, but being sure about what I thought I had seen, I found an online copy of the discontinued Tour Permit. Here is what I likely read and to which I referred. Read the last line or two; it specifically says "If more than one vehicle is used to transport our group, we will establish rendezvous points at the start of each day and not attempt to have drivers closely follow the group vehicle in front of them." "' 1. We will use the Safe Swim Defense in any swimming activity, Safety Afloat in all craft activity on the water, and Climb On Safely for climbing activity. 2. We will use trucks only for transporting equipment—no passengers except in the cab. All passenger cars, station wagons, recreational vehicles, and cabs of trucks will have a seat belt for each passenger. 3. We agree to enforce reasonable travel speed (in accordance with national, state, and local laws) and use only vehicles that are in safe mechanical condition. 4. We will be certain that fires are attended at all times. 5. We will apply for a fire permit from local authorities in all areas where it is required. 6. We will at all times be a credit to the Boy Scouts of America and will not tolerate rowdyism or un-Scoutlike conduct, keeping a constant check on all members of our group. 7. We will maintain high standards of personal cleanliness and orderliness and will operate a clean and sanitary camp, leaving it in a better condition than we found it. 8. We will not litter or bury any trash, garbage, or tin cans. All rubbish that cannot be burned will be placed in a tote-litter bag and taken to the nearest recognized trash disposal or all the way home, if necessary. 9. We will not deface trees, restrooms, or other objects with initials or writing. 10. We will respect the property of others and will not trespass. 11. We will not cut standing trees or shrubs without specific permission from the land owner or manager. 12. We will collect only souvenirs that are gifts to us or that we purchase. 13. We will pay our own way and not expect concessions or entertainment from any individual or group. 14. We will provide every member of our party an opportunity to attend religious services on the Sabbath. 15. We will observe the courtesy to write thank-you notes to persons who assisted us on our trip. 16. We will, in case of backcountry expedition, read and abide by the Wilderness Use Policy of the BSA. 17. We will notify, in case of serious trouble, our local council service center, our parents, or other local contact. 18. If more than one vehicle is used to transport our group, we will establish rendezvous points at the start of each day and not attempt to have drivers closely follow the group vehicle in front of them. So there we have it. Now I can shut up and know I saw and read what I thought I had.
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I saw that once in northern Indiana. Some places have unwritten rules that are more solid than legislation, -
Apples and oranges. My polling was between 1995 to 2005. Nothing has changed that would affect my conclusions. Several events have occurred in the last 15 years to draw National’s conclusions today. But, the burnout problem is still there and not being addressed. Barry
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Most but not all of the Scout Reach programs in our area are school based programs rather than traditional units.
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