Camping Merit Badge - Front Country vs. Back Country Camping

[delway]

Hello, I'm a SM and Camping MBC for a relatively new troop. We worked on the camping MB last year as a troop and capped it off with a weekend backcountry backpacking trip. We brought in our own water and had to treat some too. Hiked over six miles and the scouts packed in their food, and patrol equipment. All meals were trail meals cooked with backpacking stoves. We had several scouts complete the MB that weekend. We encouraged all of our Scouts to go but we had one scout that didn't go because he doesn't like to rough it. He is a member of the PLC and voted down a backpacking trip for this year. Now, he has decided he wants to complete camping MB and wants to satisfy several requirements on our next car (front country) camping trip.

 

The requirements don't specifically state you must be on a backpacking trip to satisfy requirements (7B, 8C, 8D). He wants to bring his pack, show his gear, and cook one trail meal using a light weight stove.

 

I totally believe in the "nothing less and nothing more" policy, but I don't want to cut corners on a Eagle MB. I'm Inclined to approve his plan providing he gets his patrol to forgo their chuck box with dutch oven and plan and pack in trail meals and trail equipment since 7B & 8D requires him to pack in some of the patrol gear and his patrol agrees to eat a trail meal instead of car camp meal.

 

I know this is going to rub some of the other scouts that took pride in roughing it and earning the mb without question.

 

I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks!

 

p.s. this is the same scout that insists on email interviews instead of face to face or telephone interviews because the requirements do not say you can't.

[skeptic]

Camping "does not" require backpacking, though backpacking counts towards the nights. The requirement is under canvas or the stars and doing the work and so on themselves. So cabins or similar shelters are not allowed, but a campout on the church lawn with tents could. Only one summer camp can be counted in full as long as it is in tents and not cabins.

 

As far as rubbing some the wrong way, that is your opportunity to encourage scout spirit and so on. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses, and what others do or don't do is not important to their pride in their own accomplishments.

 

It does appear you may have some work to do with the young man though in relation to leadership. Good luck.

[blw2]

my only additional thought might be to point out to him that he could steer the patrol or troop to do another backcountry trip in the future for the pride in accomplishment.

[JoeBob]

Email interviews? For an SMC?

I don't do eMail interviews.

How can he show me a bowline via eMail? How do I know if he has the book open on another screen?

[chrisking0997]

Email interviews? For an SMC?

I don't do eMail interviews.

How can he show me a bowline via eMail? How do I know if he has the book open on another screen?

yeah, my first thought was this scout is trying to phone it in....literally.

[DuctTape]

My first thought was he is pushing the patrol to plan a front country trip because he doesn't like to backpack. So now he want the patrol to act as though it was a backpacking trip. sounds like he needs to learn more about being a member of a patrol and not push his own way. perhaps another patrol which doesn't like to backpack would be more to his liking.

[Kudu]

Did you guys all flunk Wood Badge?

 

Delway's Scout understands the true meaning of "inclusiveness." Ask any Den Leader with a plush toy critter!

 

The whole point of Camping Merit Badge requirement 9b is to get parlor boys to Eagle without ever walking into the woods with packs on their backs.

 

If a Scout hates camping (as it is defined by Baden-Powell), then he can ride his bike around a parking lot for four hours, rappel at the mall, or float downstream for four hours. That's what camping is!

 

Watch any Wood Badger explain our Congressional Charter and you will see that Delway's Scout understands "innovation:" The ability to break the spirit of the law by playing word games with the letter of the law (which is only six words to define the backpack option). I know one adult Eagle who has his Scouts walk around a family campground with empty packs and a pedometer to log the four mile "backpack" for option #2. Another adult Eagle Camping Merit Badge counselor has Scouts walk with empty packs around the block at Scout meetings to accomplish the same end.

 

Now really, why is it that Camping Merit Badge is the only badge with an option for Scouts who hate the subject of the badge?

 

In a perfect world, every indoor Merit Badge would have the same option we give boys who hate camping:

 

"Explain to your merit badge counselor the concepts of simple interest and compound interest, OR float downstream eating cupcakes."

 

 

[Sentinel947]

Did you guys all flunk Wood Badge?

 

Delway's Scout understands the true meaning of "inclusiveness." Ask any Den Leader with a plush toy critter!

 

The whole point of Camping Merit Badge requirement 9b is to get parlor boys to Eagle without ever walking into the woods with packs on their backs.

 

If a Scout hates camping (as it is defined by Baden-Powell), then he can ride his bike around a parking lot for four hours, rappel at the mall, or float downstream for four hours. That's what camping is!

 

Watch any Wood Badger explain our Congressional Charter and you will see that Delway's Scout understands "innovation:" The ability to break the spirit of the law by playing word games with the letter of the law (which is only six words to define the backpack option). I know one adult Eagle who has his Scouts walk around a family campground with empty packs and a pedometer to log the four mile "backpack" for option #2. Another adult Eagle Camping Merit Badge counselor has Scouts walk with empty packs around the block at Scout meetings to accomplish the same end.

 

Now really, why is it that Camping Merit Badge is the only badge with an option for Scouts who hate the subject of the badge?

 

In a perfect world, every indoor Merit Badge would have the same option we give boys who hate camping:

 

"Explain to your merit badge counselor the concepts of simple interest and compound interest, OR float downstream eating cupcakes."

 

Kudu I never know whether to argue with you or laugh at your jokes.

 

For every troop that does things parlor style there are troops that get out and do Scouting the right way.

 

Always something to keep in mind.

[qwazse]

Arrange to be with his SM four miles into the middle of nowhere. Scout and patrol have to hike there to present his gear and cook lunch for you. Tell him to bring his blue card and you can complete your interview their. Really, you could do anything. He can always choose a different MBC.

[delway]

Email interviews? For an SMC?

I don't do eMail interviews.

How can he show me a bowline via eMail? How do I know if he has the book open on another screen?

Sorry, I wasn't very clear with the email interview comment. For Cit Community req 4B , this Scout insisted on doing a email interview rather then face to face or telephone interview. Always seems like he is trying to bend or cut corners.

[Pack18Alex]

I know my CO's troop really struggles with some of the intensive camping stuff... not because they are parlor scouts, but because the numbers are small, and the Jewish Unit, plus Florida's weather, presents a bunch of challenges.

 

Can't setup a camp or cook after Friday at nightfall, so it's often a race to get Campsites up.

 

Can't build/construct anything on Saturday, carrying items becomes an issue in Back Country, etc.

 

So the obvious thing would be Winter/Spreak/Summer Break. The Jewish Day Schools are on a different calendar than the Public Schools, no overlap for breaks. Summer is simply not really camp weather in South Florida. Extremely hot is common in the country, but our Mosquitos and Noseums are out of control in the summer.

 

Combined with poor adult leadership (the have a great SM and CC, but the rest of the positions are mostly empty), they end up with too simple a program during the year, and using Merit Badge College and Summer Camp for merit badge mills for advancement. By the time my son crosses over, I expect to see more stuff, as we're pushing the Cub Scout program to be more intense, but it's a process.

 

Every unit has challenges. I understand people skirt requirements, and that's not ideal. In the end, are we turning out good citizens with a sense of self accomplishment, duty to God, and duty to Country? If so, we're having a positive impact on the world, even if our programs are underwhelming in an ideal sense.

[ScoutNut]

Email interviews? For an SMC?

I don't do eMail interviews.

How can he show me a bowline via eMail? How do I know if he has the book open on another screen?

Since this Scout is such a "stickler" for the exact requirements - I would have pointed out that requirement 4-B also states - clearly - "With a counselor's, and a parent's approval". As a counselor you would have been within the rules to withhold your approval for email interviews.

 

Why was he so set on ONLY email?

 

My first guess would be that he did not, in fact, do the interview himself, and email, which can be done from anywhere, by anyone, AS anyone, was the easiest way to accomplish this.

[ScoutNut]

I totally believe in the "nothing less and nothing more" policy, but I don't want to cut corners on a Eagle MB. I'm Inclined to approve his plan providing he gets his patrol to forgo their chuck box with dutch oven and plan and pack in trail meals and trail equipment since 7B & 8D requires him to pack in some of the patrol gear and his patrol agrees to eat a trail meal instead of car camp meal.

 

It seems that while you refuse to allow "nothing less", you are not opposed to adding something "more".

 

If you follow the requirements - as they are written - you will not be "cutting corners". Nowhere in the requirements does it state that the camping, or cooking, MUST be done while on a specific kind of camping trip. Nowhere do the requirements state that dutch oven cooking is not allowed.

 

Requirement 7-B does NOT "require" him to CARRY his pack in anywhere. Requirement 7 is about PREPARING for an overnight - not actually going on one (although that does usually follow it is not required). It also does not require that the pack be backpacked in to remote backpack site. The Scout, and the boys in his patrol, can carry their patrol stuff, in their backpacks, 100 feet from the car to their camp site.

 

Requirement 8-D requires this Scout to cook 3 meals for his patrol. These meals do NOT all have to be on the same trip. Only ONE of the three meals must be a "trail meal requiring the use of a lightweight stove". Notice the requirement does NOT state that the trail meal must be done while on an actual trail. Nor does it state that the trail meal must be done on a backpack trail. The Scout can cook his "trail meal" at base camp overlooking the parking lot if necessary. He can also take his patrol on a hike to the nearest picnic shelter and cook them a "trail meal" lunch.

[Sentinel947]

I totally believe in the "nothing less and nothing more" policy, but I don't want to cut corners on a Eagle MB. I'm Inclined to approve his plan providing he gets his patrol to forgo their chuck box with dutch oven and plan and pack in trail meals and trail equipment since 7B & 8D requires him to pack in some of the patrol gear and his patrol agrees to eat a trail meal instead of car camp meal.

 

It seems that while you refuse to allow "nothing less", you are not opposed to adding something "more".

 

If you follow the requirements - as they are written - you will not be "cutting corners". Nowhere in the requirements does it state that the camping, or cooking, MUST be done while on a specific kind of camping trip. Nowhere do the requirements state that dutch oven cooking is not allowed.

 

Requirement 7-B does NOT "require" him to CARRY his pack in anywhere. Requirement 7 is about PREPARING for an overnight - not actually going on one (although that does usually follow it is not required). It also does not require that the pack be backpacked in to remote backpack site. The Scout, and the boys in his patrol, can carry their patrol stuff, in their backpacks, 100 feet from the car to their camp site.

 

Requirement 8-D requires this Scout to cook 3 meals for his patrol. These meals do NOT all have to be on the same trip. Only ONE of the three meals must be a "trail meal requiring the use of a lightweight stove". Notice the requirement does NOT state that the trail meal must be done while on an actual trail. Nor does it state that the trail meal must be done on a backpack trail. The Scout can cook his "trail meal" at base camp overlooking the parking lot if necessary. He can also take his patrol on a hike to the nearest picnic shelter and cook them a "trail meal" lunch.

While those things are within the requirements, MBC or whoever is advising the Scouts should encourage the requirements to be done in the context of a trip .

 

When Scouts do what Scouts do, the requirements and rank advancement falls into place more naturally and is less of a chore.

[Stosh]

My Godfather was a Eagle Scout (1936) and as far as I know spent most of his adult life camping every weekend from late March through late October (Wisconsin). He spent 4 years of WWII in a Japanese prison camp having been a Marine captured at Wake Island. Then he spent a few years in the US Army in Korea. He was a fuel oil distributor spending most of his time outdoors year around. When he wasn't working he was riding his bike around town. I really think he hated to be indoors. Before becoming an Eagle he was a "city-boy". Maybe he was a city-boy, but he surely wasn't a Parlor Eagle in any sense of the word. I like to think of myself as an avid outdoorsman, but compared to him, I'm really just a Parlor Scout myself.

 

People have lost all concept of what adventure really is all about. Any scout who plots how to fulfill a camping MB while sitting on the sofa talking on the phone, really doesn't get it.

 

Stosh