desertrat77

@LeCastor, you raise excellent points. Not too long ago, I was looking at the Patrol Leaders Handbook, 1967 edition (the ISP '70's era edition is utterly worthless). Though I came up through scouting during the ISP/'70's era, my scoutmasters ran the various troops I was in by the old style of scouting, focusing on the patrol method. I was amazed as I thumbed through the '67 edition. I had forgotten many of the things I was expected to do as a patrol leader. Collect dues. Sit on the monthly troop leaders council as well as the yearly TLC planning meeting. Train my patrol on the skills required for the next camporee. Organize the purchase of my patrol's food for camp outs. Etc. Alas, I rarely see the patrol method used today. Scouting has largely been reduced to parents and scout leaders running everything. The scout's sole responsibility, most of the time, is to get into the van and just amble through an event. Campouts? Patrols? When many troops actually go camping, everyone is huddled around one dining fly, with the adult leaders calling all of the shots. (Yes, I'm painting with a broad brush.) The BSA got a reprieve when Green Bar Bill came out of retirement in '79 and re-wrote the handbook. The anti-outdoor and anti-patrol method crowd, the pro-ISP folks of '72 - '80, failed in their initial effort to "revolutionize" the BSA. But they were patient. Their desire to reduce the outdoor element, and diminish the independent patrol/gang (well said, @qwazse), worked in the long run. Why any anti-outdoor/anti-patrol method adult would join the BSA is beyond me. But join they did. Indeed, they were cordially invited. And were subsequently promoted to the highest levels, pro and volunteer.

LeCastor, here's mine. I was at Philmont during the 77 Jambo. I recall the eighth edition of the handbook had Scout Handbook on the front in big letters and Boy Scouts of America in smaller type near the lower right corner.

Welcome to the forum, wjd2112! Your Explorer uniforms are still good. Technically, no BSA patch or uniform becomes obsolete.

Now that you all mention it, I'm pretty confused during most BSA flag ceremonies.

RememberSchiff, I like your recommendation. I don't think I'd wear the vet patch myself, but I think it is a nice option to have available. The Tribe of Mic-o-Say has a red/white/blue bead for vets to wear with their claws, if memory serves. Verification of service would be necessary. Every so often, I run across a real "Baloney Sandwich" artist, a scouter who claims to have been Special Forces, door gunner on the Space Shuttle, etc. And it's painfully obvious they weren't anything close to that, if they were in the military at all. I suppose vets could bring in their DD214 to the council office to confirm their service status. Uniform options aside, vets usually stand out in subtle ways. Shiny old P38 on their key ring, getting their hair cut every 10 days whether they need it or not, morning coffee from a canteen cup, lingo such as "SPL, organize a detail to clean the latrine," standing at attention during flag ceremonies as taught in basic training X years/Y decades ago, etc. And as @qwazse pointed out, vets love to "wax eloquent." Story telling and shooting the breeze are fine military traditions.

One of the biggest challenges to getting people trained is the quality of the training itself. Training courses tend to be staffed by people that thrive while on district/council cadres, but they are not necessarily "doers" at the unit level. A new scouter can pick that up. Word spreads quickly.

(Apologies if someone has already mentioned this) I'm wondering what the GSA hopes to accomplish. First, the legal costs. Surely those attorneys' fees will cut into the Cookie Syndicate profit margin. Second, the PR factor. How does the suit improve the brand? I can't think of any benefit. It just makes the GSA look petty. You know it's a weird day when the strategic decision making in Irving TX looks good by comparison.

Excellent idea! I have the same shirt, but I sure don't fit in it. The beret still fits (XL, Charlie Brown size).

Cody, I understand your point of view. I felt the same way in '85 when I went through what was then called Scout Leader Basic Training. I was an Eagle in '77, and served as SPL and JASM in an outdoor-oriented troop that treated me like an adult and expected me act as such. SLBT was a big let down. Huge let down. That said, the BSA expects us to go through certain courses to be officially trained for our positions. Once you go through those courses, for good or ill, you're trained and a member in good standing. I keep my SLBT training certificate in a nice, safe place. WB is not required unless you seek certain positions, such as adult leader for council jamboree contingents, etc. I highly recommend Wilderness First Aid. As a scout and young scouter, the very best training I received was sitting with old scouters, drinking coffee around the campfire, listening to their stories. And as an old scouter now, I still learn a great deal from these informal sessions, from old and young scouters alike. Shingobeek, welcome to the forums!

I'll lend my recommendation to anything in Alaska. After being a scout in the Panama Canal Zone, and lots of desert camping in Southern Arizona, we moved to AK when I was about 15. It's an amazing state. I went on a High Adventure trek north of Anchorage the last year I was a scout. Our troop camped/hiked/backpacked one weekend minimum every month, and twice in December, regardless of the weather. You know it's high adventure when you are backpacking in a state that still has mountains, glaciers and lakes that haven't been named yet....

Eagle, I completely understand your point of view. You did your best. However painful it will be to move on, it will be worth it. I learned this the hard way--sticking with a toxic unit out of loyalty and a sense of perseverance is just not healthy in the long run. As others have said, better scouting days are ahead.

I renewed my Lifeguard BSA at camp this year. I was surprised to see how poorly some of the scouts swam, ones that had the swimming and lifesaving merit badges already. Poor technique and not much strength or stamina.

TEP, welcome to the forum!

Excellent point! I went down the same confusing, scouting.org path early last year, with no success, until my council advertised the training through a local scouter who conducts it once or twice the year. He is ARC qualified but the ARC search function didn't show him, nor did anything at the council website. It was only when I was fully at a standstill that I received a council email, out of the blue. The info at scouting.org was not the least bit helpful.

Definitely recommend taking WRFA. I took it for the first time last year. Well worth the time and money.

Mash, that rocks! I really like having the run in the mix. Very challenging. PS Added: Thinking on the way home from work, I could do that particular WOD right at the home and around the neighborhood, and get a superb workout.

@JoeBob, 4th hot dog? Heck, I thought I was the only one that did that!

Sample WOD: "The Scouter.Com" 1. 50 Mashmasters 2. etc.

Henceforth I'll start doing the same, and will credit the source!

I concur with Mashmaster, CF works if coaches scale, but unfortunately many of them seem focused on just smoking everybody with the same workout, regardless of condition or age. And CF loves those box jumps...which I now avoid because of the injury potential. And those headstand push ups...I'll pass!

Age is definitely is a factor. Past the half century mark, I have to make a concerted effort to stay in shape. It ain't easy, but it's worth it. When I retired from the Air Force, I found that my weekly work out regimen was even more important. Not only for the physical strength needed to counteract the effects of aging, but also for my own mental well being. I didn't want to be the washed-up old guy who couldn't participate in the outdoors any more. That day may come, but I don't want it to be self inflicted through neglect and poor choices. That's the kicker--the BSA is supposed to be an outdoor organization, but we have many scouters that don't stray far from the flag pole. Or the mess hall. Even if their duties don't require a 50 miler or a long portage or the mile swim, the scouts notice our fitness level, or at least the image thereof. In a nutshell, I'm trying hard to not become the scouter I used to make fun when I was a kid....

Swam the mile twice this summer, one each at two different summer camps. Lake swimming for both. I wore a pair of those BSA combo shorts/swim suit. I think they are on clearance. Worked fine. I've done the mile swim several times over the years. Just once in a pool. Horrible. I'll swim in a lake any day, regardless of conditions. Coldest mile swim: Mirror Lake, Camp Gorsuch, AK. Very cold, even in the summer.

I think "physically strong" is directly linked to "do your best." I'll re-share my favorite example of a scouter who was physically strong. I was a Tenderfoot. One of my SMs in AZ was a WWII vet. He lost a lung in battle (we learned this from his wife). Never talked about the circumstances. Never talked about his condition, or the war, ever. Never complained. Mr. P was elderly. He couldn't walk very fast. But he never missed an outing. Slept on the ground in a sleeping bag, in a canvas tent, every camp out. Even during those bone-chilling winter nights in the desert. He hiked with us. Yes, he'd have to stop and take more breaks along the way, but he still chugged along. We went to summer camp in the mountains. When it was time for chow, he'd start to the mess hall early. We'd always pass him along the way, but that was okay. His one lung needed extra time and breaks to process the thin air. No worries. He always arrived just at the right moment. Mr. P wasn't going to win a triathlon. But he always looked sharp in his uniform. He looked physically strong. And he was truly physically strong, to the extent that he was able. The scouts can detect in an instant if we are doing our best...or not.

Welcome, Scotty!

Duct, I'm intrigued re the old timers. Any specific titles you'd recommend?