desertrat77

I see what you mean...really mind blowing stuff compared to the heavy equipment of yesteryear.

Wonderful post, SSS! My first pack was a nylon green Kmart yucca. Simple and tough. Used it for 25 plus years til it wore out. Recently found another on ebay that I use and treasure. As an SPL in AK, we had an old locker in the scout hut on Elmendorf AFB that was a mystery. We figured it belonged to the cub pack. They thought it belonged to us. Once we figured out that it was really a mystery, the cubs declared no interest in the locker and said have at it. So the next scout meeting we snapped the lock and peered inside. Nothing much. But there was a BSA advancement guide from 1968. And a wonderful canvas BSA yucca pack. My SM gave me both. I used that yucca as well. Lost it in during a move but got another one on the big auction site. For day hikes, I still like a yucca pack. Very straightforward, tough, and useful. For longer trips, I still use an external frame pack. I rotate between a modern-era Mountainsmith and an early '80s Camp Trails. I like the simplicity. Pack it, put it on your back, adjust shoulder straps, and start hiking. I'll also readily admit nostalgia plays a role too. It's what I know. PS. Our scout troop in AK also had a conex full of brand new GI M4 packboards!

Parkman, the kicker is that the comments weren't always delivered by a one-off, grade D WBer. That I can accept any day of the week as he/she may not speak for the rest of the community. More often than not, these comments were made by folks that were pretty high in the WB food chain, folks with more than two beads. So I play the cards I'm dealt, and go hiking and camping instead.

My favorite is the 1967 edition. Timeless insights. Well written, well organized. Page 87, Chapter 6, Lead Your Patrol on Hikes: "Scouting was intended for the outdoors. Most of your patrol members joined to go camping and hiking...." Next para: Learn Hike Leadership. "Planning a varied hike program." "Knowing what equipment to take." "Being courteous...." "Observing safety precautions on trails and roads." "Knowing how to keep from getting lost (and what to do if you get lost)." "Practicing the rules of health and sanitation." "These all add up to training yourself in hike leadership so your Scoutmaster can have confidence in your ability to lead your patrol." Good stuff! PS DuctTape is correct, avoid anything after 1970. The one from my era as a scout, '72 edition, is very watered down.

@Eagledad, I found your post very interesting, thanks.

Over the years, I've had several WBers tell me, with a straight face: - That WB is more intellectually challenging than the classes I took for my master's degree (in organizational management) - The leadership/management lessons from the professional military education courses I took (nine total) when I was on active duty are, in fact, inferior to what WB teaches - Same things they told @JoeBob: no beads means that I'm not up to snuff, lazy, I don't care about the welfare of the scouts, I'm a half-stepper, too chicken to take the course, not capable enough to grasp the Deeper Meaning, a poor example of a scouter, etc. I kid you not. When it happens, I just smile and don't say a word. And try not to laugh. Yes, these examples are at the extreme end of the WB sales spectrum. But they still happen. So...where do I sign up...I'd love to spend six days with these folks! PS. I know that I don't know everything.

Parkman, 10 minutes is definitely reasonable. As you mentioned, it depends on the event, and the audience's reception. As you know, short attention spans abound these days. But if they are into it, and tracking with you, more power to all concerned.

Eagle, I think you are correct. I recall beading ceremonies from the past, my first being the fall of '75. Pretty dignified affair. Part of a normal troop court of honor. My SM was presented his beads by a council scouter. It took about five minutes. A brief description of the WB program, a few personalized comments towards my SM, neckerchief, beads, certificate, applause, thank you, next on the agenda. No critter songs, cups or songbooks hanging from belts, kudu horn blowing, etc.

@Sentinel947, thanks again for your insights. I appreciate you taking the time to share them with us. I wish that WB communities throughout the BSA would follow your example. Alas, many do not, and actively encourage the behaviors you are trying to modify.

Sentinel947, well said, and I for one would welcome your expanded thoughts on the subject. To briefly comment on one of your points: "Treating other Wood Badgers poorly"--when WB for the Twenty First Century was launched, I was surprised when I read that previously beaded scouters would, in some cases, have to go back through WB. Their previous WB training and years of service to scouting weren't good enough--they had to go through WB again to receive the WB21 material. Though I'm an outsider, this struck me as a sign of disrespect. "You are qualified--oh, actually, nope, you gotta go through WB again." Just my perception, but it seemed disrespectful to those senior scouters.

Parkman, I understand how it can seem that the ridicule level is higher than deserved. But I can truthfully say the WB communities I've seen over the decades (several councils) have more than earned the criticism. It's not that it's an accepted practice so much as a frank assessment of how many WBers collectively act. Their condescending attitudes aside, when a group within the BSA feels it's their right to hijack any public event--camporee campfires, courts of honor for scouts, roundtables, etc.--to spend up to 45 minutes presenting a set of beads, that's the clincher. In front of a listless and often incredulous audience, the WBers sally forth with endless stories, critter songs, mutual-admiration, inside jokes and such, completely tone-deaf to how their actions are being perceived. Whether it's beading ceremonies, or the pushy sales presentations, or anything else discussed here, I consider it valid feedback. For good or ill. The WB community would be miles ahead if they tailored actions and attitudes accordingly. But no. Since the feedback comes from the Great Unwashed Non-Beaded Folks, it is discounted and ignored. Darn shame, because if the WB community a) toned down the braggadocio, and b) ditched the power point death march and focused on outdoor adventure (hiking, cooking, camping instead of sitting in a mess hall or at a picnic table), WB courses would have waiting lists of folks wanting to join. The ball is strictly in WB's court.

I've served in several councils over the years, and in more than a few of those, the WBers were collectively "as described" by the criticisms here in the forum. Though I haven't taken WB, I know how to read a syllabus. And heaven knows, I have been subjected to many a long-winded recitation of every facet of WB courses by graduates. I can also assess performance. There is often quite a gap between what WB teaches and how many WBers perform their scouting duties. Not to mention how they interact (or don't) with non-WBers.

I have a new sash but I've never worn it. I pay my dues and wear my lodge flap. But otherwise I am silent about OA matters (aside from here). Not that I don't have any thing to contribute. The OA was very important to me as a youth (vice lodge chief, 79 NOAC, etc.). It's that the OA has changed so much over the years, I barely recognize it today. So I keep my silence. If the current members think it's fine, who am I to say otherwise?

Yes indeed, I had forgotten about those plastic sleeves! I never thought they looked right. I recently found my youth sash. Last worn circa '81. The arrow and bars are worn and frazzled. Sash itself is permanently soiled, the result of numerous work weekends, tap outs, ordeals, ceremonies, camporee staffing. The years of dirt, tree bark, campfire smoke and sweat have left their mark. I agree, kids were proud of their service. The dirtiest jobs were the most coveted.

Welcome Pete! I too have an old Overnighter tent that I bought a couple years ago. No pole. I ended up buying a suitable substitute off ebay. Those original poles are very difficult to find. I also have an old Miner's tent that has the original poles. Got lucky on that one.

Eagle94, I too am becoming very gram conscious. I've tried to lug around equipment from my younger years. But I'm finally admitting defeat on some items, like stoves. Just too heavy and it wears me out. The gear is still in good shape...but I'm not! Any thoughts on boiling/cooking times with alcohol stoves?

Thanks RS, great article!

They can call it Polaris or whatever they wish. At the end of the day, it's nothing more than another series of committee meetings. Because scouting really doesn't have enough of those. Results: - Low hanging fruit--small changes that could have easily been made before all of those meetings and flip charts--will be heralded as proof of the BSA's new-found flexibility and concern for scouters. - Big annoyances, the true morale breakers, the things that really need to change--these will remain the same. Sure, the Polaris teams may delve into some "problem admiration" regarding these items but nothing significant will come of it. I see that round tables are one of the first items up for dissection. Low hanging fruit. If RT works for your district, great. If not, scrap them and don't look back. You're welcome

Gentlemen, thank you for your posts...both made my day. Kudos to all who are still striving.

Welcome, KCBaseballFan!

I don't see much value in today's boards of review. May as well call them what they are. Square filler. A super friendly chat with people who really, really believe in you. Everyone concerned--adults and scouts--knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that if the scout has made it to that point, they've passed. Barring some minor administrative issue, of course. Alas, our scouts are better than that. Yes, the boards from old days were hard. No guarantee of passing. But the pride you saw at the court of honor...you'd think that new First Class badge was made of pure gold.

I think the patrol method is a vanishing concept. I can't remember the last time I've seen a troop even attempt to use it. The patrols are just on paper. The adults organize everything.

Where is Kudu when you need him? [Edited to add: Kudu was a forum member and a relentless critic of WB. His historical research on WB was quite impressive.] I haven't been to WB. Nor NYLT/JLT. When I took Scoutmaster Basic Training/Delta in the mid '80s, my course was staffed by the same folks who taught WB in my council. They were insufferable, condescending bores. No other way to describe them. I was relieved when the course was over and, these many years later, still feel the same way. The next year, my DE presented me an invitation to attend WB (this was still the by-invite only era). I was humbled but dubious. Then I read the staff list--the same folks who ran my SMBT. That was a deal breaker. No thanks. My DE, who was a heck of a gent, was sorely disappointed in me. I felt bad about it, but I couldn't subject myself to those particular scouters again. Especially 24/7 for 6 consecutive days. I've been in several councils since. To varying degrees, the WB communities I've witnessed still operate on the "exclusive club" theory. My experience with WBers over the decades is mixed. Many are great folks. But they were probably that way before they took WB. Many others, though, believe they are great because they took WB.

Duct Tape, sounds like we had very similar experiences.... Parents used to view scouts as a place for their kids to grow up. Parents were rarely seen and certainly never part of your activities. Sure, if you misbehaved and the leaders felt it necessary to tell your parents, you could be assured of a good whipping when you got home. Parents attended courts of honor. Afterwards, in the station wagon on the way home, mom might say a few words of praise. She wouldn't over do it. Dad wouldn't say a word. He'd be silent, driving, lighting another Winston, but you could tell he was proud of you. Other than that, scouting was a place to go on adventures and have fun. And perhaps, if you had the gumption, earn a few things. If you didn't want to earn a single badge, that was okay. Just be a good den/patrol member. That's all that was asked. If you'll excuse me for stating the obvious, I don't think the cubs have changed. Parenting styles have changed. And generally speaking, National cannot, will not, publish coherent policy.

Eagle, I believe you are correct. I recall going to the first YPT in the late '80s, circa '88. Classroom format, with a council-level trainer, about three hours. I also agree that YPT is needed.